Table minimum requirements

Interesting event last weekend while playing at a $15 table. Around 2 am on Saturday evening, maybe 4-5 people on each end, so medium crowded but also not full.

Dude next to me walks up with a small stack, maybe $50 total. He's pretty friendly, we exchange a couple jokes (not sure what about). I am PL and come, while he is mostly DP with some hops, so can't really high five on any rolls or anything, but whatever.

Then he makes a hip or horn bet of some sort, box man says "it's a $15 table sir". Dude is like "I just bet $15 on the don't last roll". Box says "well you need $15 in action on THIS roll or it's no bet". Dude is kinda grumbly, I think he puts down another DP.
Couple rolls later, basically same thing, but dude refuses to place a $15 min.

(By this point they are both agitated, I'm slowly sliding away, move my chips to the next rail over, keep my head down)

Eventually the box man says "you need to make a bet or step away from the table".
Dude: "why?"
Box : "other people want to play, if you're not going to play then step away".
Dude: looks around, says "I don't see anyone waiting for a spot". Which is true, but that's not gonna win the argument.
Box says "I'm ordering you to step away from the table".
Dude is silent but stays put.
They both kinda stand down, security does NOT get called. Few rolls later dude is gone, I think he ran out of money (he was very short stacked the whole time).


So, I am of mixed opinions on this.
On basic principle, you have to follow the posted rules, which is $15 min somewhere on the table.
But on the other hand , it is typically valid to stand at the table and sit out several rolls. I've rarely (never?) seen someone kicked off a table solely for not betting, absent other provocation. Also a single P/DP bet will remain on the table for s while, granting the 'privilege' of tossing in $1-2 in the middle. Given all this I think it should be valid to say "I bet DP last time, and will bet it next time, but this roll I just wanna bet horn". So I kinda wanted to be on the dude's side. But I wasn't gonna say anything and risk getting the box mad at me.
Ultimately it's kinda the discretion of the box man on how strict they will enforce the limits.

Quote: cyrus

absent other provocation.

Are you a regular at this establishment?

Is Dude?

There may be... history.

Since when TF do you have to make a line bet other than to shoot? Maybe rules are different over wherever you are....?

I am not a regular at the place.
Don't know about the dude in question... Nothing I heard was referring to past events but that is certainly a valid explanation.


They were not requiring a Line bet. Just a min $15 action somewhere on the table if you are to bet small money in the middle.

Perhaps there was no history, and Dude just rubbed them the wrong way - walking up to a $15 table, obviously short stacked. Maybe they're concerned his objective is to pinch chips off the rail. Maybe they're just looking to protect their exclusive clientele from having to unnecessarily associate with Dude.

Quote: RS

Since when TF do you have to make a line bet other than to shoot? Maybe rules are different over wherever you are....?

We require a pass line bet (or a don't pass bet, though it's far less common) to place a Fire bet - but we only require it right away and we only require it once. So if you put down a pass line bet with a Fire and then a 12 rolls, you don't have to replace it.

We do, however, require that table minimum be met on a roll. So if a person bets a $5 Horn High Yo on a $15 table, they have to have at least a TOTAL of $15 of action, be it a pass line, field, other center action, etc. Usually if they have a place bet up and it's not working on the comeout we let it slide, and different boxes enforce that differently, but we do have that rule and we do insist that people who aren't playing make room for people who are.

so if i bet place bets and on the come out if i don't bet pass or dp i can't amke a bet in the middle unless its $15? thats absurd and i never seen it enforced anywhere,

Quote: hwccdealer

We require a pass line bet (or a don't pass bet, though it's far less common) to place a Fire bet - but we only require it right away and we only require it once. So if you put down a pass line bet with a Fire and then a 12 rolls, you don't have to replace it.

We do, however, require that table minimum be met on a roll. So if a person bets a $5 Horn High Yo on a $15 table, they have to have at least a TOTAL of $15 of action, be it a pass line, field, other center action, etc. Usually if they have a place bet up and it's not working on the comeout we let it slide, and different boxes enforce that differently, but we do have that rule and we do insist that people who aren't playing make room for people who are.

hwccdealer, Thanks for listing your House Rules. What state do you deal in?
The house rules you mention are similar to local and downtown casinos in Las Vegas, however 99% of the Strip Boxmen do not require action when on the Fire Bet or other Bonus Bets.

In New Jersey, there is no mention of having any other action on the table when making a Fire Bet. See N.J.A.C. 19:47-1.12 Additional procedures and rules for the fire bet:

Quote:

(b) If a casino licensee elects to offer the fire bet in the game of craps as permitted by N.J.A.C. 19:47-1.2(a)40, the following additional rules shall apply:
1. The minimum wager shall be $1.00 and the maximum wager shall be $5.00 and all wagers shall be made in increments of one dollar.

cyrus, what state are you playing in that this occurred? In Nevada, the House can make up any craps rules they wish and change as often as they please. (Mississippi requires a 15 minute notice before they can change table minimums or limits.) In Nevada, if you ask for a $30 Six and a $30 Eight, the Box is allowed to book the Six and say no action on the Eight. Nevada has no rules regarding craps like some states and can decline any bet they wish.

I don't see anything wrong with what the box did. Yes the guy was betting $15 DP at times. But, I get the impression most of his action was $1 or $2 center action (or a $4 horn, etc). Clearly under the table minimum.
If he is doing it quickly and not holding up the table, I might ignore it. But many times, guys playing like that like to make their bet late. Or they throw their chips all over the felt, so the game drags while the stick chases the chips. So the box may have been taking action to pacify some of the other players who had more money and were getting annoyed.

I was in Hollywood casino a couple of years ago, with $1000 buy-in in my hand. Table was too full to squeeze in, but next to the stick were two players who were playing a doey-don't, creating a $1 spread. They tied up two spots on the table for over an hour, and probably only managed to have about $30 total at risk for that whole hour.

Quote: hwccdealer

We require a pass line bet (or a don't pass bet, though it's far less common) to place a Fire bet - but we only require it right away and we only require it once. So if you put down a pass line bet with a Fire and then a 12 rolls, you don't have to replace it.

We do, however, require that table minimum be met on a roll. So if a person bets a $5 Horn High Yo on a $15 table, they have to have at least a TOTAL of $15 of action, be it a pass line, field, other center action, etc. Usually if they have a place bet up and it's not working on the comeout we let it slide, and different boxes enforce that differently, but we do have that rule and we do insist that people who aren't playing make room for people who are.

I've never heard of such a rule, that's interesting. But, it does make sense -- you wouldn't want some flea betting $5 horns or $1 hard-ways on a big game, without making the other big bets (line, field, place, etc.).

Quote: Bohemian

cyrus, what state are you playing in that this occurred? In Nevada, the House can make up any craps rules they wish and change as often as they please. (Mississippi requires a 15 minute notice before they can change table minimums or limits.) In Nevada, if you ask for a $30 Six and a $30 Eight, the Box is allowed to book the Six and say no action on the Eight. Nevada has no rules regarding craps like some states and can decline any bet they wish.

If I had to make a guess I would say Nevada, where they change the rule on a whim. There are no rules on craps here, so they can do just about anything they want to.