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ShineyShine
ShineyShine
Joined: Feb 6, 2014
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July 18th, 2015 at 12:31:14 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

And you don't think I don't know that? (No Brainiac math genius needed, sayonara Pascal, hello Patrick Sinner).

Why do you think I am interested in this at all? I just want some real evidence. If someone can actually prove there's anything to DI, there's a fortune to be made.
It's obvious that even if it's possible, it's hard enough to discourage most people, but It only takes one guy. If proven it's worth the effort finding that person(while were at it we can find Bigfoot to).

Not one person is making money actually playing craps using only DI. I guess all the talented DI's are red chippers.



It seems to me that the DI myth is the same as the Roulette dealers myth that they can spin sections or numbers. This would be worth as much financially as DI... But i completely agree, until someone can prove it, it's all BS.

Ive dealt Roulette for years, and obviously have tried to 'section spin', or whatever its called, just because ive spun the ball thousands (possibly 10's of thousands) of times, so why not give it a go. But in my experience, its not possible.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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July 18th, 2015 at 6:48:00 AM permalink
Quote: ShineyShine

It seems to me that the DI myth is the same as the Roulette dealers myth that they can spin sections or numbers. This would be worth as much financially as DI... But i completely agree, until someone can prove it, it's all BS.

Ive dealt Roulette for years, and obviously have tried to 'section spin', or whatever its called, just because ive spun the ball thousands (possibly 10's of thousands) of times, so why not give it a go. But in my experience, its not possible.



I'm pretty sure that clocking roulette wheels is proven to work and casinos have since adapted (away from deep pocket and other areas that present exposure given the technology to be able to overcome the edge).

You can still find clockable roulette wheels if you want to do it for fun. I think Jerry's Nugget still has a $0.25 deep pocket roulette that should, indeed, be beatable with a sufficient effort and it is proven to work. You just have to do some research, and the max bet is small enough that you're not likely to make a haul before they cut you off.
aahigh.com
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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July 18th, 2015 at 9:19:38 AM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Mathextremist


Have you ever played craps????

dicesetter



That question shows you don't even bother to read.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
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July 18th, 2015 at 8:21:23 PM permalink
thecesset


I think it is an excellent question and unlike math's continued comments it was not intended as an insult

His comments like I understand dicesetter may not have the stamina to throw for hours... shows his complete
lack of understanding of craps or what it takes to have a good throw. Anyone can throw for hours...that was not
the point.... throwing for hours is a far cry from having an effective throw for hours. Math can not or will not
use his head, that's why his roll is completely random, and will stay that way.

Any of the good classes today can teach you to have a fairly decent roll, but that only opens the front door to what
you have to do. It is because if people like Math that most people fail, they think throwing a long time is the same thing
as learning to influence the dice..it is not.

dicesetter
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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July 18th, 2015 at 8:26:38 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

thecesset


I think it is an excellent question and unlike math's continued comments it was not intended as an insult



It's a terrible question when the poster has repeatedly told you he plays craps, at what level, and how often.

It proves you are wrapped up in your own little truth.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
NokTang
NokTang
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
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July 18th, 2015 at 8:29:05 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

thecesset


I think it is an excellent question and unlike math's continued comments it was not intended as an insult

His comments like I understand dicesetter may not have the stamina to throw for hours... shows his complete
lack of understanding of craps or what it takes to have a good throw. Anyone can throw for hours...that was not
the point.... throwing for hours is a far cry from having an effective throw for hours. Math can not or will not
use his head, that's why his roll is completely random, and will stay that way.

Any of the good classes today can teach you to have a fairly decent roll, but that only opens the front door to what
you have to do. It is because if people like Math that most people fail, they think throwing a long time is the same thing
as learning to influence the dice..it is not.

dicesetter



Ah ha, we finally have an admission that dicesetter is selling training courses behind the veil of reasonable discussion. His/her sales technique is hardly original, saw it long ago in Daytona Beach under the boardwalk by a guy selling pens which you write with holding upside down. He remarked that his sales pitch was really for those serious about life, not those who could/did spot the scam right away and started throwing darts at him. Scam it remained. $20.usd for a pen with a pump made in China.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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July 18th, 2015 at 11:11:54 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Math can not or will not use his head


Your idea of "using your head" is spending seven years practicing your dice throwing on a dice table you have in your home, all the while knowing you can't maintain an "effective throw" for more than a few minutes per day on that home table and worse, your throw isn't effective at all in most casinos. I have no interest in using my head for such wasteful and ridiculous pursuits.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
ShineyShine
ShineyShine
Joined: Feb 6, 2014
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July 18th, 2015 at 11:41:12 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I'm pretty sure that clocking roulette wheels is proven to work and casinos have since adapted (away from deep pocket and other areas that present exposure given the technology to be able to overcome the edge).

You can still find clockable roulette wheels if you want to do it for fun. I think Jerry's Nugget still has a $0.25 deep pocket roulette that should, indeed, be beatable with a sufficient effort and it is proven to work. You just have to do some research, and the max bet is small enough that you're not likely to make a haul before they cut you off.



Define 'clocking'; I'm referring to dealers that claim they can spin a certain section of the wheel at will (excuse the pun), not detecting where the ball will land after it's been spun using some kind of device.

Disclaimer; I know next to nothing about Craps, i've never dealt it or even played it. But from what i can gather from the DI debate, the comparison to Roulette dealers that claim to be able to spin sections of the wheel to people that claim to be able to influence the dice, seems valid.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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July 19th, 2015 at 8:17:33 AM permalink
Quote: ShineyShine

Define 'clocking'; I'm referring to dealers that claim they can spin a certain section of the wheel at will (excuse the pun), not detecting where the ball will land after it's been spun using some kind of device.

Disclaimer; I know next to nothing about Craps, i've never dealt it or even played it. But from what i can gather from the DI debate, the comparison to Roulette dealers that claim to be able to spin sections of the wheel to people that claim to be able to influence the dice, seems valid.

Clocking is different than sector shooting. Clocking is done by players, sometimes in cahoots with dealers, by using orbital mechanics to identify the trajectory of the ball as it decays. This has already been proven to work in a casino using computers; that's one of the reasons you can't use computers in casinos. See Thomas Bass, "Eudaemonic Pie"

Sector shooting is what you're talking about. You only need to be able to avoid 3 pockets to turn the game positive for the players, assuming they know what those three pockets are. Are you saying that after 10,000 spins as a trained dealer, if you were to set the wheel in motion with a certain force and release the ball from the same spot with a certain force, you have exactly zero control over where the ball ends up? Here's a guy who gets the ball within 10 numbers of 0 three times in a row, the last exactly on zero. It's only three spins but if it's not a complete anomaly, you could make a killing with a confederate if you can target half the wheel and avoid the other half.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I6eFIDUYG4
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 154
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July 19th, 2015 at 9:41:43 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Clocking is different than sector shooting. Clocking is done by players, sometimes in cahoots with dealers, by using orbital mechanics to identify the trajectory of the ball as it decays. This has already been proven to work in a casino using computers; that's one of the reasons you can't use computers in casinos. See Thomas Bass, "Eudaemonic Pie"

Sector shooting is what you're talking about. You only need to be able to avoid 3 pockets to turn the game positive for the players, assuming they know what those three pockets are. Are you saying that after 10,000 spins as a trained dealer, if you were to set the wheel in motion with a certain force and release the ball from the same spot with a certain force, you have exactly zero control over where the ball ends up? Here's a guy who gets the ball within 10 numbers of 0 three times in a row, the last exactly on zero. It's only three spins but if it's not a complete anomaly, you could make a killing with a confederate if you can target half the wheel and avoid the other half.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I6eFIDUYG4

Is someone telling me that he meant for that last spin to ride the rim like that?

there are some much better videos of a dealer doing this.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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