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MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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June 29th, 2015 at 9:53:39 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Math
well I tried everyway I know to get you to be reasonable, but in the end
you are so tied what you have been exposed to you cant.

Exposed to what, math? Without putting too fine a point on it, I don't think you're in a position to judge what's reasonable. You've spent seven years trying to get an edge in casino craps through physical skill, but the expected distribution is so variable that your results have proven impossible to distinguish from random (i.e., anyone else's results). If you had truly developed enough skill to change the edge, you'd know it. The fact that you don't know it, after seven years, speaks volumes.

The only reasonable thing to do would be to stop wasting your time. But it's your time to waste, so carry on.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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June 30th, 2015 at 12:54:16 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

What's the T word? Testable? Theoretical advantage? Tevidence?



Well my name is not yet in red so "Tr***"

I have gotten away with "Cheesehead"!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
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June 30th, 2015 at 4:11:58 PM permalink
Mathextremist


Your not even close to being right,, you have no idea what my data shows. The only thing you
know for sure is that what ever I have provided is not good enough for you, so I assume
what ever I do provide wont be good enough either.

I have never commented on how I have done the past 7 years....

The only one that is sure I have no influence or that no other person has any influence is
you...... and that makes sense... it would be a person that has never tried to explain to others
why they should not try as well.

I tried to get you to understand that just like most things in life, your results can and do vary
from day to day......your not buying it, you assume dice control is the one thing In life where
the person throwing never changes from day to day and the throw is always perfect.

Now I know you know better than that.... so I have to assume you have some other motives.

That's ok, I am having fun, and I know others are to, i called them all yesterday and they
assured me they will be ok even if you assume they are all stupid.

dicesetter
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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June 30th, 2015 at 4:28:43 PM permalink
Quote:

That's ok, I am having fun, and I know others are to, i called them all yesterday and they
assured me they will be ok even if you assume they are all stupid.



Wow, you called some DI's, told them about this thread, and to a man they all assured you that they will be OK, even though ME assumes they are all stupid?

Such a narrow, circumscribed world you describe.
"What, me worry?"
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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June 30th, 2015 at 4:56:51 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Wow, you called some DI's, told them about this thread, and to a man they all assured you that they will be OK, even though ME assumes they are all stupid?


The amazing thing is he doesn't post on any dice/gambling board at all, or very sparingly. He just comes over here to get flagellated.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
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June 30th, 2015 at 5:20:34 PM permalink
Demango


I am on 4 boards altogether, but this is the most fun because this is the one
place where the dice mean nothing.. and that is interesting.

But I was glad that a couple of others I spoke with were not so
heart broken that they decided to quit playing craps. We feel even
though we are just wasting our time we will keep plugging away..
who knows maybe we can stay lucky a little longer.

dicesetter
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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June 30th, 2015 at 5:28:33 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

I have never commented on how I have done the past 7 years....

Sure you did. You said:
Quote:

There is no question that you cant rule out luck


Were you not talking about your results? Because if you can't rule out luck then there is no reason to believe your skill is having any impact on your results.

The way to demonstrate that your skill is affecting your results is to be able to (statistically) rule out random luck. Can you? Are your results over the past seven years within what would be expected from a random shooter or are they outside that boundary?

Do you even know what that boundary is? If you don't, how can you feel confident claiming that your results are based on skill?

Here's the thing. If you're a net loser over the time you've been using your skilled dice throwing techniques, then one of two things is the case. One is that you don't have enough skill (if any at all) to swing the edge in your favor. That's the most likely scenario, especially if you're unable to "rule out luck". The other is that you have enough skill to beat the game but you're betting improperly and failing to take advantage of it. That's where I could help you craft a betting structure to maximize your return and capture the edge that your skill would potentially allow. But I'm not going to do that unless you demonstrate that you have some skill, and since you're unwilling to show anyone a video of your skillful throws, this conversation has reached its conclusion.

Really, there's nothing else to say. You said "I'm a skilled shooter;" I said "show me;" and you said "no." So be it. But don't expect the other readers of this forum to buy into your naked assertions any more than I did (which is not at all). Proclaiming "I can skillfully throw the dice" might go over well in other corners of the Internet, where they believe in other assorted gambling superstitions, but the readers of this particular forum are too skeptical to accept such an unverified and improbable claim. If you have learned nothing else from this exchange, learn that.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
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June 30th, 2015 at 9:27:03 PM permalink
mATH


Laughing....... your good, it does not do me any good to say anything
because you decide for yourself what I said or should have said.

You need to go back and read..... I never said I was a skilled thrower, I said my toss
shows there is some influence.... I never said I was better than anyone else.. in fact I
have been careful to indicate others that helped me are much than I am.

I provided two videos which showed much more limited bounce after the dice hit the table,
hardly any affect of the back wall and a much closer relationship of both dice when they came to
rest than any video Ahigh ever presented

I never claimed influence was consistent, in fact I have gone out of my way to indicate it can
vary from day to day depending on how well you deliver your shot.

Ahigh is the only person on here that indicated he was the best shot he had ever seen.

I have been honest with you, never claimed anything I don't feel I showed.


You cant except that, you must have your reasons for being so adamant that no human being
can anything you don't agree with... you are pretty sure you know what people you have never
met cant do...... i am sure of what i have seen.

You just need to live with it.

dicesetter
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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June 30th, 2015 at 11:25:48 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

I never said I was a skilled thrower, I said my toss shows there is some influence.... I never said I was better than anyone else


You don't recognize your self-contradiction. That's why we're talking past each other. As long as you're unwilling to show anyone why you think you have influence, and I don't mean a video of a few rolls, there's nothing for me to add. I gave you the experimental design for collecting the data to test the question of on-axis dice influence, but you rejected it in favor of "I am sure of what I have seen." So are people who believe in UFOs. A fervent belief in something doesn't make it true. EvenBob fervently believed Mitt Romney was going to win the last election.

And you keep talking about consistency for some reason. That's not the way variance works. The house has the edge in roulette despite the variance in results (or lack of consistency) because in the aggregate the house has a quantifiable edge. You don't need to be able to execute a controlled shot every throw in order to achieve a quantifiable edge. But you do need to be able to execute it with a given probability. If you don't know how often you're successful at influencing the dice, you can't quantify anything. And if you can't even tell for a given shot *whether* you've influenced the dice, then you can't tell anything.

So do the experiment. Roll 1080 times and indicate which rolls are the ones that exhibit "influence" as you define it. How many did you have? Over 5? Over 50? Over 500? All of them?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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July 1st, 2015 at 1:20:59 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Perhaps you missed this.


You said people are far better than you. Millions should be disappearing from craps tables. Yet most casinos let you freely set and "influence" the dice and then comp you afterwards.



Only slightly better would be incredible, Far better = Millions.

Why don't we have ONE person, one video, something, anything that can prove anything?


Why can't someone show us it's possible under the best conditions? 2 feet away from back wall. A mechanical device, dropping the dice from the same spot?

Dicesitter can you logically explain any of this?

----------------------------------------
Why do you keep bringing up what Ahigh did or didn't do? Is it more misdirection or something? It's like when a kid gets caught doing something he tattles on his sibling for something else.
-------------------------------------------
I agree if DI was possible your shot is more consistent of what DI should look like. Back when DI was all the rage and people blindly believed it worked. You would've had people following you around like a god. Yes you have a nice LOOKING shot. It's obvious you have spent lots of time on it. You're probably underestimating yourself. Unfortunately you're probably overestimating what's possible. People who claim to be good DI's with a winning record don't shoot as well as what I seen in the video you provided us.

There's some really smart guys out there who originally believed in and participated in DI they actually won more than the average american makes over a course of a year or so. But they seen the slow motion videos, listened to reason and logic, and put there dedication and brains elsewhere.


I'm not here to dog on you I'm here to see if anyone can come up with something that can either prove

If you took whoever is considered the best DI in the world (not the luckiest) and he played for as many hours as I assume you have, and actually kept track, I bet he would be losing as well.

------------------------------------------
Again with some added questions,.

You said people are far better than you. If so, Millions should be disappearing from craps tables. Yet most casinos let you freely set and "influence" the dice and then comp you afterwards. I haven't heard of anyone making any real money from DI. Explain the logic here. (perhaps all the good DI's are red chippers)



Only slightly better would be incredible, Far better would = Millions. ( At the least more people would be getting tossed out, or major changes would be taking place.

Why don't we have ONE person, one video, something, anything that can prove anything? Why has nothing materialize?

Why can't someone show us it's possible under the best conditions? 2 feet away from back wall. A mechanical device, dropping the dice from the same spot?

Dicesitter can you logically explain any of this?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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