Place bets
the Wizard does not set a particular point where he suggests the HE he rails against is too high, but he seems to rail less around this area of 1.52% HE, so you might take that as still OK. Most Craps players allergic to sucker bets are still OK with the 6 and 8 IMO. My sample size is very small, mind you, since although I have played Craps for many years I see very few players allergic to sucker bets!
Another factor that the Wizard talks little about, but doesnt rail against, is giving up edge for higher variance. Unfortunately, see link, placing 6 or 8 has a low standard deviation, so you really don't accomplish that. If you want more action I suggest Come bets with odds, low HE and high variance - too much variance for a lot of folks.
https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/
Quote: blriegerAre place bets not good bets vs betting don't pass, don't come and odds? I used to bet the pass line along wity place bets on 6 and 8 until I discovered this site.
Did you used to take odds on your pass bets? Suppose you bet the pass line for $10 and get a point of six. If you place the 8 for $12, you will win $14 if it hits and lose the $12 if not. With 5 ways to win and 6 to lose, your ev is -$2 for every $132 bet. If, instead, you take $10 odds on the six, your ev is zero, since the odds bets pay at the actual odds against winning (6 to 5 on 6 or 8). So, switching money from a place bet to an odds bet reduces your expected loss. Of course, you could take the odds on the six and still make the place bet on the 8, but this is still adding to your expected loss as well as risking more money.
As far as betting "against the dice", the difference is minimal; the don't pass expects to lose 27 units out of 1980, the pass a whole 28 units.
Regardless of whether you're betting "right" or "wrong" the odds bets add volatility without adding to expected loss.
There are a lot things on this site that are interesting, such as is it better to bet one way or another.
The thing I find interesting is that everyone on here has an opinion of how to play, yet they all agree
you cant win anyway.
We have all been told your lowest HA is the pass line bet odds (normally more than triple odds or
don't pass with odds. Yet when you think about it, you have two win two pass line bets to really
make anything because your going to lose the last one. Yet the percentage of players making two
pass line winners is around 19% , not very good.
If I had a limited bank roll or just wanted to play and have the best chance I would not play the pass line,
I would watch a table and see which one or two numbers were being rolled the most and I would
make a single bet on one of those and play the hand.
Now I understand what everyone on here is going to say... what happened on the last roll of the dice makes
no difference regarding what will happen on the next.....
But then again everyone on here says you cant win anyway......
Dicesetter
Quote: goatcabinDid you used to take odds on your pass bets? Suppose you bet the pass line for $10 and get a point of six. If you place the 8 for $12, you will win $14 if it hits and lose the $12 if not. With 5 ways to win and 6 to lose, your ev is -$2 for every $132 bet. If, instead, you take $10 odds on the six, your ev is zero, since the odds bets pay at the actual odds against winning (6 to 5 on 6 or 8). So, switching money from a place bet to an odds bet reduces your expected loss. Of course, you could take the odds on the six and still make the place bet on the 8, but this is still adding to your expected loss as well as risking more money.
As far as betting "against the dice", the difference is minimal; the don't pass expects to lose 27 units out of 1980, the pass a whole 28 units.
Regardless of whether you're betting "right" or "wrong" the odds bets add volatility without adding to expected loss.
I used to play the pass line with the place bets on 6 & 8 without odds. I never played a lot, and my success was minimal. When I go to the casino, I usually just go up with around $200. I just want to play for fun, but I want to get better at the game and have more success while I'm at it.
Thanks for all the tips. I appreciate it.
Quote: dicesitterblrieger
The thing I find interesting is that everyone on here has an opinion of how to play, yet they all agree
you cant win anyway.
Not so. I have never said "you can't win". Variance gives the player a chance to win, the more the better chance to break even or better. The players, taken as an aggregate, are as certain to lose as the casinos are to win, but not individual players.
Quote: dicesitterWe have all been told your lowest HA is the pass line bet odds (normally more than triple odds or
don't pass with odds. Yet when you think about it, you have two win two pass line bets to really
make anything because your going to lose the last one. Yet the percentage of players making two
pass line winners is around 19% , not very good.
Huh? Don't know what you're saying here.
Quote: dicesitterIf I had a limited bank roll or just wanted to play and have the best chance I would not play the pass line,
I would watch a table and see which one or two numbers were being rolled the most and I would
make a single bet on one of those and play the hand.
Now I understand what everyone on here is going to say... what happened on the last roll of the dice makes
no difference regarding what will happen on the next.....
But then again everyone on here says you cant win anyway......
Again, not so.
Quote: goatcabinNot so. I have never said "you can't win". Variance gives the player a chance to win, the more the better chance to break even or better. The players, taken as an aggregate, are as certain to lose as the casinos are to win, but not individual players.
Huh? Don't know what you're saying here.
Again, not so.
He's talking about in the long run. He's right.
Quote: RSHe's talking about in the long run. He's right.
What's the "long run"? Variance assures us that some players will end their lives winners. There are millions of players; those at the "good" end of the distribution will be ahead.
