Odd Odds Riding

Okay, maybe I should write that book on craps etiquette. I seem to accumulate enough information here! I can make my fortune selling copies.

Germane to this: I currently play at the green chip level or black chip level (not bragging; maybe one day I'll go back to red -- I just find that level makes it more interesting for me and I can afford it at the moment -- one day I'll probably wind up falling in love again with someone wonderful and then, well -- let's not talk about such unpleasant things).

I don't always play at the $25 limit (or more) tables. I often find the higher limit tables boring, and the players way too intense and obsessed with money (but not always and the exceptions really bring a new meaning to the term "statistical outlier"). So I look for a fun table regardless of limit, and I prefer crowded tables as I like to people watch (plus the game goes more slowly so I have more time to figure things out because, well, I guess some of you would consider me "concrete operational" even though I know what the term "metaphrand" means). That means I'll happily go to a $10 limit table which looks fun as opposed to a nearly empty higher limit table with obnoxious rich guys (money doesn't buy class!).

In my observational experience, the $10 players do a much better job at money management than the high rollers, but I digress. :)

One time, I had $100 on the pass line and took double odds (pretty typical for me). The nice guy next to me had $10 on the line and took full odds (I forget the point; it doesn't matter). He said, "I'd like to take more odds, but I already have max odds; I thought maybe you'd let me ride on your odds because you didn't take full odds?" Very polite.

Okay, I understand that. I said "Sure, if you want." I didn't see any risk to me (only to him) and if the bet won I'd certainly give him his payout (although I suppose he should tip me for acting like a dealer, etc. :) ).

He changed his mind for some reason (no, I don't remember if we won or lost, so please: no theories on whether asking someone to do that makes it more probable that a 7 will come up!). But I just wondered. Does this sort of thing happen often at the tables? I admired that intellectually, by the way, but, as usual in Las Vegas, a little part of me wondered if he tried to scam me somehow (I really really really don't think he did -- all the risk seemed at his end).

Now, suppose we did that, and we won. Should I mention the deal we had to the dealer and let him figure it out and pay him directly? Or what? I hate to bother dealers with questions like that at a crowded table when they work exceptionally hard. And how would that work anyway? Would he put his addition on top of my odds (well, I wouldn't let him get near my chips, frankly; I suppose he should put them next to mine and I could put them on top of mine). Or maybe he could just put them next to mine? Does a custom exist for this that the dealers and players understand?

P.S. You guys have failed me in a previous post of mine. In my organization we have but one penalty for failure and -- well, I guess that doesn't apply here. Anyway: in a previous thread I asked what term I should use for the second part of the dice roll (after the come out roll with an established point) and never got an answer. I understand what to call the first phase: "the come out roll." But what do I call the second phase - you know, the one where the shooter needs to make the point in order to win? Let me give an example sentence to help illustrate. "I fronted him the million dollars from the SMERSH fund and he failed to make his point during the [INSERT TERM HERE] and lost it all -- his first failure, but, given our organization's policy I had no choice but to have him dropped in the piranha pond at Wynn."

P.P.S. In case Steve Wynn or one of his representatives reads this: if you have a piranha pond I'd love to see it (from a distance). I love your koi pond (very peaceful). No doubt you would have the most tasteful and artistic piranha pond in all the world with piranhas selected for their beauty from a special branch of the Amazon river. With maybe some pomegranate trees, Venetian glass, ferns, and a great ventilation system with soft jazz background music from Brazil of a cover of a Rolling Stones hit or maybe some Steely Dan. If you don't have a piranha pond and need some creative artistic ideas, feel free to ask.

The first roll is the Come Out roll.
I believe the next phase is the 'shooting for the point' which is every roll before either the point made or the 7 out.

I don't see this too often. However, I usually play at places where 10x or 20x is allowed, so folks have plenty of room to pile on their own bet. I have seen folks take odds on a player's line bet when the player has chosen not to take any odds.

As for how it works, I would expect that the odds would be in one stack, and it is up to the line bet "owner" to divide the win. I suppose if the table were not too crowded, the dealer and box might allow two stacks, but past posting protection might be an issue. I don't think it hurts to ask.

As for your fill in the blank for what to call the phase of the game once the point is established, I suggest, "roll", (which is very general, and includes the "come out" and "seven out" phases of the shooter's turn.) I have also seen it referred to as, "shoot" and "hand".

If he tops off your bet and you win, dealer pays you, then you pay him. I don't think casinos really like people doing this because what if you decided to screw over the kid? I've never seen it outright banned (it also isn't the most common thing). I do not know the legal BS behind it, just that I've seen it a handful of times and it has never been an issue.

A bet next to yours may look like, and be treated like, a tip.

Yes, this happens frequently -- at craps and many games.

It's up to the other guy to pay the person who backed his bet.

One of the first times I played pai gow tiles, some guy asked me to play $2000 for him under my $40 bet. The hand pushed.

Quote: RaleighCraps

The first roll is the Come Out roll.
I believe the next phase is the 'shooting for the point' which is every roll before either the point made or the 7 out.

I would call them the "point rolls", I guess. I don't think there is a standard term, like for the comeout roll.

Quote: goatcabin

I would call them the "point rolls", I guess. I don't think there is a standard term, like for the comeout roll.

See a different thread, but if no term exists then I shall invent one. I assure everyone here that I *do* have the credentials to do this.

I shall call it the "out of the closet roll." What happens after coming out.

Easy to remember. Much better than some of my other ideas, like the "flaming queen" roll, the "nellie" roll, the "Ellen Degeneres" roll, or the "daddy bear" roll (too many people wouldn't understand those).

Example usage, "He had to get a 6 for the out of the closet roll, and decided to bump up his odds."

Another example usage, "He got a natural on the come out roll. Then he came out again and made a 6. Then he sevened-out on the 15th out of the closet roll."

More example usage, "The casino doesn't let you take back your pass line bet on the out-of-the-closet roll because the odds now favor them."

I'd copyright it, but that's never made me any money.

Also, consider the resultant terminology that will happen. I will let those unfold without my help though. I've done more than enough.