Done with Caesar's Entertainment. They are cheap bastards when it comes to comps!
Quote: bodyforlifeIt's funny. I remember commenting before on how stingy Caesar's Entertainment was on giving out comps and there always seemed to be at least a couple of people that claimed they got decent comps from table games (and in particular, craps). Well I played for essentially the same amount of time and average at both Planet Hollywood and the Wynn on Sunday. It was raining in Vegas and all the planes were delayed approximately 3 hours, so I said screw it and stayed another night. I was going to talk to a host at Planet Hollywood to see if I could get a comp room. There wasn't one available so I decided to see about getting a comp meal. I asked the pit boss and he said they can't even get me a cup of coffee and that everything is controlled by the Total Rewards desk. He told me it's ridiculous and that he was aware of the level I was playing at and apologized for being powerless to help me. He went on to say that the company really doesn't care that much about table players and really mostly focus on the slot players. The Total Rewards booth said I had a whopping $7 in credit on my card and that Sunday's play wouldn't be credited until the next day (why...I have no idea). So essentially they did nothing for me. When I called the Wynn, they gave me a comp room for the night. The next day, I went back to Planet Hollywood to check my credit and they had added a whopping $5 to my card. $5 F-ing dollars! I played 3 hours and 5 minutes with an average wager of $350 and they give me $5 of credit. Unbelievable! I have one last trip to Vegas for the Superbowl. When that's done, I'm going to cancel every credit account I have with Caesars Entertainment. Hard to believe anyone defending their comp program. What an absolute joke.
Skip the pit boss and the TR club.
Why didn't you talk to a host? $350 average bet for 3 hours is plenty.
Quote: bodyforlife" I was going to talk to a host at Planet Hollywood to see if I could get a comp room. There wasn't one available"
It's actually "I was going to talk to a host at Planet Hollywood to see if I could get a comp room. There wasn't one available so I decided to see about getting a comp meal." And that's pretty ambiguous. Are you saying that you DID talk to a host (as opposed to "going to talk" to one), and that a ROOM was not available? Or are you saying that the HOST was not available and that you then asked someone else (I guess, the pit boss...) about a meal?
This is probably a silly question, but did you check room rates on the total rewards website? I've reserved comped rooms same-day plenty of times. But I suppose lots of unexpected guests probably descended on the south strip with all the flight delays and cancellations. Demand for paid rooms that far south was probably pretty high on that day.
Quote: rdw4potusBut I suppose lots of unexpected guests probably descended on the south strip with all the flight delays and cancellations. Demand for paid rooms that far south was probably pretty high on that day.
Any competent las vegas casino reserves rooms for comped guests. Especially if there's a situation in town like flight delays/cancellations where an invited guest may need a room on short notice.
Getting points at table games under Total Rewards is arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable to say the least. It's really a mystery how table game players are comped.
I don't know what the "host situation" is at Planet Ho but at Caesars Palace there is always a host on duty -- EXCEPT between 2am and 6am so even 7 Stars players needing something during those hours might run into a problem.
Average bet of $350 at craps is definitely big play but I have to ask the original poster, what player level are you? If you are 7 Stars you wouldn't be writing this post -- the comped room would have been automatic. Even higher level Diamonds have an assigned host.
I was left with the impression that if I did not make a $50 bet on my first play (or in my case, play $150 across out of the gate) then my rating was set at some low level, and I was pretty much ignored. When the table had a good roll going, and my bets were pressed up to the $600 range, I was not getting any credit for it. And how could I? The one pit critter doing the rating was trying to watch too many tables, and didn't really seem to GAS anyway.
I then played some BJ and Pai Gow, and never got credit for any of the multiple hands I played. It appears that they are now rating you for the minimum amount you bet at any session, as opposed to giving you an average bet. I suspect part of my problem is I am betting too close to the line where they just don't seem to care.
It is sort of funny though. I spent 4 hours out to GVR playing at the same level, and now GVR and Red Rock have been sending me offers for free rooms, match play, and slot play all the time.
The comp game really has some inconsistencies with it. You never know what you will get.
piss ant to the hosts and casino's.
Our casino host in Wisconsin used to provide a number of trips, some free, some half price and on
an average weekend trip Sue and I could lose $1000-$3000. Now we are so far down the list we don't even
get called for a half price deal.
That is sorta ok by me, I feel I get better deals on my own.
I play some poker at Sams Town and last year after having been in town for 3 weeks and playing lots of poker
and some craps and Sue was at the slots I looked and we had $4.97 in comps... I told the pit boss it would be
better to just say you guys don't bet enough and give me nothing, than to insult me with $4.97. He said hey you
got stuff coming, what do you want.. we got several nice dinners at TG's and stuff so it was not really all that
bad. but they want you to ask, they figure most people wont ask so they don't have to give anything.
The average guy cant bet enough to impress anyone any more so you may as well play smart instead of chasing
comps.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitter
The average guy cant bet enough to impress anyone any more so you may as well play smart instead of chasing
comps.
dicesetter
Well said. Another rule: never play for comps.
I don't suggest someone doing stupid stuff chasing a buffet. Or someone with a crippled BR playing for comps.Quote: AlanMendelsonWell said. Another rule: never play for comps.
However there's quite a few opportunities that make it well worth playing for comps, because of the high comp value. If you can theoretically break even or lose only a small amount in value, but earn a significant amount of comps, it's well worth it in some cases. Especially when its expensive food you normally wouldn't buy, rooms, shows, movies, gift shops, stores etc etc.
Guys have lived rent free, ate, shopped for clothing, personal needs, entertainment in casinos for large periods playing slightly negative or break even games.
I think the overall casino trend is heading that direction - if you lose, you'll get 10% as a comp, if you win you'll get nothing (you'll do a little better than that if you have previous play and are staying on property). You should really ask a host for specifics, if you can pin one down they will explain exactly how it works.
example: I lost 9k at the Beau Rivage, asked for a dinner comp, they told me no, new rule is no discretionary comps until -15k. A couple years ago they'd do airfare at -10k.
Quote: tongniThe guy who comes in and plays BS blackjack at $1000/hand on a double deck game with good rules on a busy night for an hour has surprisingly low value to the casinos.
I saw my comps including free play offers plummet when I switched from playing 9/5 double double bonus poker to 8/5 Bonus poker and 8/5 Aces and Faces poker.
The casinos know there is a higher return on 8/5 Bonus and I will not lose as much -- and so comps drop.
What I have decided is the comps are really super dependent on the pit critter who is doing the ratings. AND, my last trip to Paris I did not feel I got anything close to a fair rating. In general I believe CET critters have been told to drop the avg bets lower.
As for the next morning, that is how Total Rewards works. The data from the pits is collected, and then posted to your account the next day. I have gotten conflicting data, but it seems to be somewhere around 6 AM. And since this virtually guarantees you will have left over reward credits, they have a built in way of enticing you back, 'so you don't lose your earned credits'.
It is good for you that you got an offer from Wynn. I have been in there twice, buying in for 1k, and have never received anything of value from them.
Quote: sc15Any competent las vegas casino reserves rooms for comped guests. Especially if there's a situation in town like flight delays/cancellations where an invited guest may need a room on short notice.
You think it's a competent business decision to block off rooms to give away for free when there's a situation in town that is going to cause an immediate and unexpected increase in demand for rooms? Also, how is it possible for an invited guest to need a room on short notice? Either they were invited for that day and they already have a room, or they were not invited for that day and they do not already have a room. There's not much of a window for an invited guest to need a room on a same-day basis.
Quote: bodyforlifeNot sure what to tell you guys. Everything I said is exactly as it happened, so no need to regurgitate the exact same thing (if anyone wants to doubt it, feel free). As I mentioned in my original post, there are always posters that will claim they do just fine by Ceasar's Entertainment (congrats). No, I am not a Diamond or Seven Seas player. The year before I was rated at Platinum but noticed that I never seemed to get much credit for my play, so I haven't played much at their properties. Of course, that comment insinuates that if someone comes in and plays at that level, unless they have some previous history, the casino isn't going to do anything for them (doesn't sound like a good business move to me, but if that's how they want to run things, that's up to them). There are plenty of casinos out there that would do something based on that single trip play (why wouldn't you?). Btw, when I checked their website the next morning, I had 386 tier credits (I believe you need like 12k to get to Diamond). It would have done me no good to check their website for a comp as the points weren't credited until the following morning (and considering what I received in points, I hardly think there would have been a comp on there...and there's not one now). Honestly, why would anyone want to jump through hoops like that? I mean really. You have to go and check a website? Someone at their property can't have a conversation with you and take care of you? The whole process seems rather impersonal and not exactly customer service friendly. After they said there wasn't a host available, I simply made a call to the Wynn and they took care of me. To me, that's the way customer service should be. I'm not going to run around trying to get them to comp me. And I play the way I play at the craps table to give myself the best chance of winning. If my play isn't good enough for a comp, so be it. I don't play for comps but simply think a casino should take care of a player (regardless of history) if they are playing at a certain level during a session. If they choose not to, I can always vote with my pocketbook. The other casinos seem to understand what customer service is so I will give them my business. Simple.
It's been well known for many years that HET/CET gives out sh** to table game players.
They are unwilling to invest decent comps in a serious player, but more than happy to invest $550 million on a ferris wheel that no one is riding. Amateurs.
***
California's Indian casinos have devastated Reno/Tahoe's gambling industry, and it's no wonder why. All over downtown San Francisco, there are billboards for Cache Creek Indian casino offering 3:2 blackjack. (Cache Creek is 90 miles away.) Driving an additional 80 miles past the Indian casino to get to Nevada is a bit of an inconvenience, so you'd think that Harrahs Tahoe would aggressively compete for gamblers, but they just don't care. Harrahs Tahoe is oblivious to their competition, they pretend they don't have any. Their tables are 6:5. Amateurs.
I don't care what the rules are, if I'm the Supervisor and you're playing that kind of money you're getting a room and food anytime you want. Them giving you $5 doesn't add up.
ZCore13
As for why Wynn comp him a room, why do Apple and Google have different smart phone strategies, or Amazon or Macy for retail ..... we don't have all the details that went into making that decision, as there could be a hundred variables. Yes one of those variables could be that Caesar's Entertainment doesn't value table players.
Quote: Zcore13Something doesn't seem right. $350 average bet for 3 hours at my place is $147 in comps playing Blackjack (no craps here). I would think the decisions per hour and house edge should be similar in the two games???
I don't care what the rules are, if I'm the Supervisor and you're playing that kind of money you're getting a room and food anytime you want. Them giving you $5 doesn't add up.
ZCore13
Z, I think you have a better understanding of your industry than many of the critters I have dealt with at CET. It is also possible I am not being fair to them either, as they may just be doing EXACTLY what they have been told to do. They may well understand how dumb it is, but they have to do as instructed.
The $5 doesn't add up, but I can come up with a dozen ways it happened, especially later at night. I was averaging well north of $250 playing craps from 11 PM until 5 AM on one trip, and when I checked with the pit on my rating, they only had me for the last hour when they came on shift. The previous crew had nothing down for me! BTW, this was not a CET property.
Quote: RaleighCrapsZ, I think you have a better understanding of your industry than many of the critters I have dealt with at CET. It is also possible I am not being fair to them either, as they may just be doing EXACTLY what they have been told to do. They may well understand how dumb it is, but they have to do as instructed.
The $5 doesn't add up, but I can come up with a dozen ways it happened, especially later at night. I was averaging well north of $250 playing craps from 11 PM until 5 AM on one trip, and when I checked with the pit on my rating, they only had me for the last hour when they came on shift. The previous crew had nothing down for me! BTW, this was not a CET property.
And in my case Raleigh, I was told exactly what my rating was. So the two situations aren't similar (your examples states you didn't get rated properly for your play). I can't tell you why the Wynn was willing to comp me and a much lesser hotel in Planet Hollywood wouldn't. But as stated in an earlier post..."wouldn't you rather stay at Wynn anyway?" And the answer to that is YES! I don't know how either hotel rates and at this point, I really don't care. The bottom line is PH wouldn't even buy me a burger so screw them. It's called being penny wise and pound foolish. Perhaps there's a reason they're going bankrupt?
Quote: bodyforlifeIt's funny. I remember commenting before on how stingy Caesar's Entertainment was on giving out comps and there always seemed to be at least a couple of people that claimed they got decent comps from table games (and in particular, craps). Well I played for essentially the same amount of time and average at both Planet Hollywood and the Wynn on Sunday. It was raining in Vegas and all the planes were delayed approximately 3 hours, so I said screw it and stayed another night. I was going to talk to a host at Planet Hollywood to see if I could get a comp room. There wasn't one available so I decided to see about getting a comp meal. I asked the pit boss and he said they can't even get me a cup of coffee and that everything is controlled by the Total Rewards desk. He told me it's ridiculous and that he was aware of the level I was playing at and apologized for being powerless to help me. He went on to say that the company really doesn't care that much about table players and really mostly focus on the slot players. The Total Rewards booth said I had a whopping $7 in credit on my card and that Sunday's play wouldn't be credited until the next day (why...I have no idea). So essentially they did nothing for me. When I called the Wynn, they gave me a comp room for the night. The next day, I went back to Planet Hollywood to check my credit and they had added a whopping $5 to my card. $5 F-ing dollars! I played 3 hours and 5 minutes with an average wager of $350 and they give me $5 of credit. Unbelievable! I have one last trip to Vegas for the Superbowl. When that's done, I'm going to cancel every credit account I have with Caesars Entertainment. Hard to believe anyone defending their comp program. What an absolute joke.
The accumulation of Rewards Credits is a joke, I agree. I still have good luck getting cheap/free rooms from them at the low-roller properties based on mid level green-chip action. But I haven't booked a room with them since last April, and I've heard even these benefits are getting cut back.
I started with 0 RC on Monday. 36 hours later I had approx. 7500 RC (bedtime last night), including a tier bonus awarded yesterday (so they are giving those). That's $75 in value.
I have played 3 hours slots with most bets at $1.50 (QHP), betting at a leisurely pace. 5 hours UTH at $20/hand. 8 hours Fortune PGP at $50-$100 spread over 2 hands. 3 hours craps at $25/hand avg.
Spent $10 at the Italian bakery, $7 at the gift shop, $240 on my Diamond dinner last night ($100 comp for DD separate from RC's), all tracked on the card, all charged to the room.
Overall, with CET properties, I'm up $100.
No idea why bodyforlife is getting such lousy comps. I'm betting at a much lower level.
I am tipping very well compared to nearly everyone around me at the tables. Perhaps that's affecting my rating. Perhaps not. I haven't seen my host yet this visit, but when we discussed my ADT before, I asked what I needed to do to stay a good client, and he said, "Play more slots". So I'm playing more slots.
Obviously he's going to say that.Quote: beachbumbabswhen we discussed my ADT before, I asked what I needed to do to stay a good client, and he said, "Play more slots". So I'm playing more slots.
Quote: Zcore13Something doesn't seem right. $350 average bet for 3 hours at my place is $147 in comps playing Blackjack (no craps here). I would think the decisions per hour and house edge should be similar in the two games???
I don't care what the rules are, if I'm the Supervisor and you're playing that kind of money you're getting a room and food anytime you want. Them giving you $5 doesn't add up.
ZCore13
It's $5 plus the bounceback direct bet coupons, plus bounceback free rooms, plus bounceback food vouchers. Are you giving $147 in addition to consideration on future trips?
Quote: beachbumbabsSo, I don't usually get into this kind of detail, but for comparison, and since I've been keeping track...
I started with 0 RC on Monday. 36 hours later I had approx. 7500 RC (bedtime last night), including a tier bonus awarded yesterday (so they are giving those). That's $75 in value.
I have played 3 hours slots with most bets at $1.50 (QHP), betting at a leisurely pace. 5 hours UTH at $20/hand. 8 hours Fortune PGP at $50-$100 spread over 2 hands. 3 hours craps at $25/hand avg.
Spent $10 at the Italian bakery, $7 at the gift shop, $240 on my Diamond dinner last night ($100 comp for DD separate from RC's), all tracked on the card, all charged to the room.
Overall, with CET properties, I'm up $100.
No idea why bodyforlife is getting such lousy comps. I'm betting at a much lower level.
I am tipping very well compared to nearly everyone around me at the tables. Perhaps that's affecting my rating. Perhaps not. I haven't seen my host yet this visit, but when we discussed my ADT before, I asked what I needed to do to stay a good client, and he said, "Play more slots". So I'm playing more slots.
In fairness, it doesn't sound like you read my original post in its entirety, since your comment was covered...."He went on to say that the company really doesn't care that much about table players and really mostly focus on the slot players". You played slots and the other poster played VP. I strictly played craps. We can go back and forth on what someone else got and what I got, but unfortunately, in the end the details are not going to change.
Quote: rdw4potusIt's $5 plus the bounceback direct bet coupons, plus bounceback free rooms, plus bounceback food vouchers. Are you giving $147 in addition to consideration on future trips?
$147 but no bounce back offers. We do offer other things for players in this category though. Currently, we have 50 tickets (25 pair) for a Rage in the Cage MMA event coming up in a few weeks. Tickets include entry into the weigh in and fighter buffet on Friday night, the fight on Saturday night and free hotel either or both nights. This is for Table Games players only. Other times it's free rooms or tickets to our suite for the Professional Bull Riders event or things like that.
ZCore13
Greeting me by name? Means nothing to me at all. Means a great deal to some others though.
Rewarding slot play? Means nothing to me, means a great deal to slot addicts. I wear the silly plastic string only because it is free.
RFB? Now you're talkin'!
If a slot machine is showing you no love, move to a different one. If an entire casino is showing you no love, move to a different one.
You can analyze why all day and night, it makes no difference. They either appreciate your action or they don't. Its your time and your money and you have the right to take your action wherever you want to. In Vegas its easy; on a remote Indian reservation it may be a bit more of an ordeal.
Quote: bodyforlifeIn fairness, it doesn't sound like you read my original post in its entirety, since your comment was covered...."He went on to say that the company really doesn't care that much about table players and really mostly focus on the slot players". You played slots and the other poster played VP. I strictly played craps. We can go back and forth on what someone else got and what I got, but unfortunately, in the end the details are not going to change.
I did read what you wrote. But instead of about 5% slots 95% tables, it's now about 20/80. Hopefully it will be enough to keep good rewards coming. I have also seen a declination in the value of my offers, especially the value of the free play, and I'm not arguing with you. But you spent more money/hand than I've ever spent, and my offers remain 20x or so better than yours. I don't have a lot of answers; just another perspective for comparison.
]Quote: rdw4potusYou think it's a competent business decision to block off rooms to give away for free when there's a situation in town that is going to cause an immediate and unexpected increase in demand for rooms? Also, how is it possible for an invited guest to need a room on short notice? Either they were invited for that day and they already have a room, or they were not invited for that day and they do not already have a room. There's not much of a window for an invited guest to need a room on a same-day basis.
Yes, because if a bunch of flights are canceled, chances are some of your invited guests who are leaving that day got their flight canned and are going to need a room for the night. And if you're a casino you're going to want to accommodate that.
Quote: beachbumbabsI did read what you wrote. But instead of about 5% slots 95% tables, it's now about 20/80. Hopefully it will be enough to keep good rewards coming. I have also seen a declination in the value of my offers, especially the value of the free play, and I'm not arguing with you. But you spent more money/hand than I've ever spent, and my offers remain 20x or so better than yours. I don't have a lot of answers; just another perspective for comparison.
While I agree with the overall point, I think bodyforlife's main beef was the day-of experience and the lack of Total Rewards' ability to comp him right there, which is a fair point. I would imagine if he tried to book a room today or a week from now, he'll get some decent discounts.
A player is a player is a player. Should a VP player playing a 99% return machine get the same comp rate per hour as a slot player playing a 94% return machine? No. But it should be a solid, explainable method of how the comps are accrued and this method should be shared with the players. "Sorry you didn't earn the comps you thought you deserved sir, you played 99% payback video poker for 3 hours. We don't really care if you win or lose, we just keep track of average bet and time played for the specific game you play."
Explaining theoretical loss to 95% of the people doesn't usually work out to well, so I wouldn't normally bring that up in the conversation unless the person brings it up or would seem to be knowledgeable in the area.
ZCore13
Quote: sc15]
Yes, because if a bunch of flights are canceled, chances are some of your invited guests who are leaving that day got their flight canned and are going to need a room for the night. And if you're a casino you're going to want to accommodate that.
Any hotel would want to accommodate any guests if rooms were available. Can you explain in more detail why it would make sense to stop selling rooms and hold back a block of rooms in the apparent hopes that I could give some away for free on a same-day basis? You're really losing me there...
Quote: Zcore13Theoretical win for the house is theoretical win. If they've set up their computations correctly the comps should be the same and shouldn't matter one bit what is played to achieve them.
A player is a player is a player. Should a VP player playing a 99% return machine get the same comp rate per hour as a slot player playing a 94% return machine? No. But it should be a solid, explainable method of how the comps are accrued and this method should be shared with the players. "Sorry you didn't earn the comps you thought you deserved sir, you played 99% payback video poker for 3 hours. We don't really care if you win or lose, we just keep track of average bet and time played for the specific game you play."
Explaining theoretical loss to 95% of the people doesn't usually work out to well, so I wouldn't normally bring that up in the conversation unless the person brings it up or would seem to be knowledgeable in the area.
ZCore13
Lots of "should" in there...I don't disagree with you that is how it "should" work, but it rarely does (especially with Total Rewards). I think it's pretty clear they value slot players more than table games players, for an equivalent theo loss. I don't have numbers to back that up, so maybe the apparent disconnect is just because slot players lose so much more.
If this is how you do it at your casino, then I salute you.
Quote: rdw4potusAny hotel would want to accommodate any guests if rooms were available. Can you explain in more detail why it would make sense to stop selling rooms and hold back a block of rooms in the apparent hopes that I could give some away for free on a same-day basis? You're really losing me there...
Same reason restaurants in high end properties don't give out all their tables to random people.
I never make reservations when I eat in vegas. I tell my host a few minutes before I want to go eat where I want to go, and it's always taken care of. If a random person walks up to the restaurant at 7 PM on a saturday night there is absolutely 0 chance they're getting a table.
If they didn't hold tables for that purpose then they would need to bump someone else's reservation to accommodate mine, and that makes the establishment look bad if that kind of thing happens on a regular basis.
Casinos don't operate their hotel business like a typical hotel. If they did they wouldn't have massive suites and villas that sit empty almost all the time.
Quote: mikes0805Maybe those people who are claiming its 20% are speaking of total comps of a trip including RC's? Caesars is very slick in that they will throw in discounted iPads and show tickets and so on and in the end claim they are comping back at a higher rate but failing to mention it is due to freebies and not RC's that can be converted into free play.
The context of the claim was that points on your card (i.e. RCs or Express Comps) would be 20% of your theoretical loss, which is just batty.
