HARRASSMENT AND A WIN

Tuesday I was playing at a tribal casino in Wisconsin. They have a 12 foot table
and you need to hit the back wall, but the problem it is also a bouncy table so
you don't want to hit it to hard.

The gtc shot is a higher shot so you have to put a lot of back spin on that so
you don't hit the wall to hard, or go up to high on the alligator board.

I started with the gtc shot and they said hit the back wall harder, so moved and
used a different shot not to high. So they immediately griped that I must now make my
shot higher.

I stopped immediately and said what in the world is going on, you don't want anyone
so shoot softly so the dice don't go off the table, you don't want the shot high , and now
you don't want the shot low. This makes no sense, right over there you have $10
slot machines where a player can makes thousands, do you go over there and tell
the players how to sit????

She said well that's what they tell us, but go ahead and just throw.... So I did and I made some
money with the ATS bet and it was a good session. I placed the crew on which ever part of
the bet they wanted when I shot and made them some money, and the lady actually clapped
when I made the wins.

So I was happy to win, pissed off I got harassed again, but happy they changed their attitude
some.

I surely don't like to say anything, try to just be quiet at the table, maybe now and then you need to
explain a players point of view


dicesetter

If I had started out with a crew this way, I don't think I would have ever tipped them.

at The Meadows at the WoV East thing, some broad showed up all aflutter, saying I didn't hit the back wall. Since I had been hitting the back wall pretty well, of course it irritated me. I could only figure somebody saw I was having a long roll on camera, and said something to the floor which was misunderstood.

Since when are craps tables sweating a couple hundred in action? They actually told you to hit the wall 'harder'?? Isn't the rule to just hit the back wall? If they told me to hit it harder I would probably have told them I'll hit it as hard as I'd like, so long as I hit the back wall, and that they just ensured I would't drop even a dollar for them. Then I would leave immediately after my next win.

I can't stand casino's harassing winning players, especially when it's just on like one person's roll and it's for a couple hundred bucks. Grow the fuck up and act like professionals; you make enough money as is. What, you can't even be nice to us while taking our money anymore?

dicesitter,

a mutual buddy of ours Harley suggested to me a few years ago his method of diffusing dealer harassment is to remain professional throughout your session, then either after your toss or after you have colored-up is to pull a Casino Comment Card from your back pocket and ask the harassing dealer how to spell his last name for the Employee Comment section of the form. If he will not give you his last name, the Boxman or Floor Supervisor will.

In any event, the offending dealer and crew will get the message to treat you more fairly or professional the next time. On several occasions after turning in these Employee Comment Cards even with just vague comments as how you were treated unfriendly and differently than other patrons at the table, the dealer seems to get reassigned to the BlackJack pit for a while or even worse ends up working at the El Cortez.

I keep a supply of Casino Comment cards in my car, but you can get them from your Host, the Hotel registration Font Desk, Cage or Player's Loyalty Card counter.

More often than not Harley has a good idea and I like it.

Most times I don't say anything unless I feel the treatment is crazy, then I figure
I got nothing to lose.

If I placed larger bets , then ok maybe, but I play for the feeling I get if I beat the
table, I have saved enough to live on my remaining years, so I don't play to eat, but
some one said that money won is twice as nice as money earned.....

for me that is true

thanks for the reply Bo


Dicesetter

Quote: Bohemian

dicesitter,

a mutual buddy of ours Harley suggested to me a few years ago his method of diffusing dealer harassment is to remain professional throughout your session, then either after your toss or after you have colored-up is to pull a Casino Comment Card from your back pocket and ask the harassing dealer how to spell his last name for the Employee Comment section of the form. If he will not give you his last name, the Boxman or Floor Supervisor will.

I always tell the guys to fill out those cards when they are getting harassment and to mail them in do not turn them in at the table, because they will never make it to where they should go. If you are going to say something at the table,.. if you have a buddy along with you have them take a video of what is happening. They can stand off to the side to record it without anybody seeing them. It funny how you all of a sudden become a bad guy and they are calling security on you because you are asking for the offending dealers name!

One of the ways to get a dealers attention really fast is to ask for a comment card right there at the table, then go on to tell them that you came to their casino to have fun, and you will not be treated as a common criminal.

Sometimes it could only be one dealer that is always starting the BS that they are doing, one bad apple spoils the whole basket!

Don't be afraid of asking for comment card at the table! The truth of the matter is you can pick them up at the players club and they should be mailed in when you get back home also take a few for your buddies to fill out, tell the casino that they will not be playing at that casino again.

Out of town players hold more weight then the locals do, the casinos want you staying in their casino, they know that the locals do not stay there!

Some of these casino employees shouldn't be working in a casino, they have no business working in the hospitality business! There are a lot of really bad dealers out there that go to work everyday and hate everyday they are there, so they take it out on the players!

The worst thing that happened to the casinos was when they started to share their tips, now you have some of these clowns that are going to work so they can make their money off of all the other hard working dealers, their just there to pick up an envelope every week without working for what they are getting!

This is Increasingly becoming a major problem for the casino industry. When you have employees like the bad dealers working at casinos they are running off players! Nobody wants to be harassed when they are playing craps, unfortunately, it all goes back to all the fiction that we are reading on these craps boards and in books.

Some of theses authors and posters have the casinos believing the fiction they are writing! If you want to put a stop to the harassment it starts with you , you need to call out all of these fiction writers, and anybody that is running a craps board that is allowing the fiction so they can sell their school.

If your a craps player you owe it to yourself to become a responsible craps player and reader. If it sounds to good to be true, call out the author or poster, that is writing nothing but BS. Then let it be known that you don't appreciate reading nothing but fiction on some of these craps boards!
Don't put all of the blame on the casinos they are not the ones that are writing nothing but fiction, they are just trying to protect their assets!

Quote: Romes

Since when are craps tables sweating a couple hundred in action? They actually told you to hit the wall 'harder'?? Isn't the rule to just hit the back wall? If they told me to hit it harder I would probably have told them I'll hit it as hard as I'd like, so long as I hit the back wall, and that they just ensured I would't drop even a dollar for them. Then I would leave immediately after my next win.

I can't stand casino's harassing winning players, especially when it's just on like one person's roll and it's for a couple hundred bucks.

A couple hundred bucks? If only!!!

From my trip report, in reference to Binion's:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/17896-mission-vegas-act-two/#post351345

Quote: Mission146

RudeBoiOi announced he was tired and going to bed after another hour at The D, so I made my way back over to Binion's.

I tried to play Craps, but they yelled at me for short rolling and told me both dice not only had to hit the wall, but that they wanted them to, "Hit the wall in the air if you're going to be setting the dice like that." I couldn't even comprehend it, in the air?

That's right, not only did I have to hit the back wall, but they specified that the dice must strike the wall while still in the air! I was the only player at the table at that time and had exactly $5 in action...lol

Quote: Mission146

RudeBoiOi announced he was tired and going to bed after another hour at The D, so I made my way back over to Binion's.

I tried to play Craps, but they yelled at me for short rolling and told me both dice not only had to hit the wall, but that they wanted them to, "Hit the wall in the air if you're going to be setting the dice like that." I couldn't even comprehend it, in the air?

I played through her and a relief dealer and her again and turned my action into about +$60, after tips. The cocktail service at Binion's is great for late night table games, but I picked up my chips and left four hours later because I had to go to the bathroom. I tried to play Craps at Four Queens and got yelled at for short rolling, so I went back to The D and half-slept, half passed out at 7:00a.m.

Binion's is now famous for sweating the money on the craps tables, living around Vegas proves one thing to anybody that has to take their guess in there if they want to play craps, it's a sweat joint!

The last time I had guess in town and they wanted to go there everything was cool until I got the dice and started making points, my guess live in and play craps in Colorado. They were shocked by what the sick lady was doing when I was shooting she was trying to block me from shooting with the stick. She told me that I had to hit the back wall every time I hit it, she told me that I had to shoot harder, even though the dice were bouncing back 6 to 8 inches every time I made a shot. She didn't say anything to any of the other shooters that were on the table. But because I was setting the dice she turned into someone from hell that was bound and determined to get me to seven out anyway she could make it happen.

When that wasn't working she told me that my hand was going into the prop box and I had to step back or she was going to take the dice off of me, I just laughed it off and told her that I would shoot from anyplace on the table that she wanted me to, I was just getting lucky what couldn't she understand about that? She had two suits come over and watch me shoot, then she said if she didn't tell me to hit the back wall that they would fire her. I tell her again I'm hitting the back wall every time I moved back to SR3 what more did she and the rest of her bandits want?

She kept telling me it wasn't her, she was just trying to keep her job! My guess kept asking me what was going on, and I told them this is what we call a sweat joint casino! The casino is nothing more than a sweat joint. There is no reason to even play craps there if you set the dice. Talk about bad casino management, what don't they understand any more, you need some winners to have players coming back. Again casino should look at slow motion videos of the dice hitting the tables, that tells the whole story, the dice bounce all over the place twisting and turning as the go down the table, then they reverse after hitting the back wall, there is no way to keep the dice on axis, like all of these dice schools preach.

Casinos now days think that you should just empty your wallet and hand everything over to them when you walk through the front door! If you are winning they try to run you off, and when they do you walk with their money never coming back, so they do not have a chance of winning it back.
That is plain stupidity on their part, the pencil pushers are killing casinos! They want no part of gambling, they want to make sure that they can't lose!

Just remember that there is always a casino down the street that will treat you better then the sweat joints you just left!

I guess I should state, just for the record, that I thoroughly enjoy gambling at Binion's except for that one incident. They tend to have fun and generous promotions that cater to low-rollers (like myself) and I left the Craps table and played Pai-Gow Poker there for several hours, terrific drink service.

I recently came back from a trip to Las Vegas. I have no problems with dealers when I play blackjack or poker, but when I play craps it's different. The dealers are outright hostile. I was playing downtown at the casinos on the Freemont. They all did the same thing to me. Every time I pressed a $12 place bet on a 6 or 8, they would only put $6 on and toss me back the change. It was clear I was playing $10 units on a 5 dollar table. Same with a $10 place bet on the 5. I'd ask for a press and they would only put $5 on it and give me the change. Then It got crazier. usually after about 5-7 rolls, I would turn off my place bets after they were stacked high from pressed bets, the dealers pushed my money down back to me. They said "it was too hard to keep track of" I thought that was what the "OFF" button was for? How can the dealers tell me how to play? I'm sure I was not overworking them with crazy prop bets. All I did was play my pass line bet with full odds, placed the 5,6,8 with a field bet. If we went 5-7 without a point. I would turn off my place bets and pull everything down, even my field bet and my odds behind the pass line bet. Rinse and repeat. I was making money and TIPPING, but they were still hostile. Was I being cheated? how can they tell my how to play. If I want "off" they can't just push my bets down can they? And if I press a full unit that I am playing, they should not be able to cut it down to a different amount. When I became upset, the dealer and boxman would just laugh about it. Is this harrassment or cheating me?

Quote: snakeoil

Is this harrassment or cheating me?

not cheating, but strange. Did they in fact not have little buttons that said "off"?

how about saying which casino you were at?

Yes, I requested my place bets OFF after I pressed them a few times. The dealer would push all my pressed place bets down with the off button on it. They said it was too hard to keep track of. This happened to me at The D and at The Golden Gate. When I pressed my place bets, they would not do it for the whole amount. I assume if I am playing $10 and $12 units on the 5/10 and 6/8 respectively, they should be pressed at $10 and $12 dollars. Not $5/6. Worst part of it all, when I complained that they laughed about it. I don't mind losing, it's gambling, but they should let me play the game how I want to play it. I should be able to control my place bets on/off. It was not like I was switching back and forth every roll. I turned it off after a few rolls, right when the 7 was coming out, and saving my place bets.

If they pulled shit like that, I'd just pick up my pass line and walk away.

How is this not cheating? They are not letting me play the game fairly. If I ask for a press, it should be pressed at the correct amount. The dealer did this to me three times in a row, I complained all three times. She and the the boxwoman just laughed. And the whole making me take down my place bets is wrong aswell. I control those bets, NOT the house. BTW I did say "F" this and cashed out. The dealer said My passline bet is a contractual bet and had to stay. I picked up everything else. Place bets, field bet, and odds behind the pass line bet. I still tipped after the session if you can believe it.

Quote: snakeoil

How is this not cheating? They are not letting me play the game fairly. If I ask for a press, it should be pressed at the correct amount. The dealer did this to me three times in a row, I complained all three times. She and the the boxwoman just laughed. And the whole making me take down my place bets is wrong aswell. I control those bets, NOT the house. BTW I did say "F" this and cashed out. The dealer said My passline bet is a contractual bet and had to stay. I picked up everything else. Place bets, field bet, and odds behind the pass line bet. I still tipped after the session if you can believe it.

Look all it take is one bad dealer to start your day off the wrong way, then if you add in a boxman or suit that wants to go along with their BS you can forget about it.

Spell it out for them;...I want to press it up $10 or $12, a lot of casinos will only leave your turned off bets up for so long then they will take them all down, it depends or the dealers and boxmen. Some of these casinos let their dealers get away with anything they want to do, they are running off players, they just don't care anymore they rather stand there all day long and collect the tips that the good dealers make for them, because of the tip sharing, that had to be the worst thing the casinos ever did.

Casinos now days just don't spend enough time teaching their dealers how to deal the games they are dealing. Most dealers now days late their jobs and they hate the players, they will do anything they can to make your day as bad as their day is going!

The biggest mistake you made was tipping after your session was over with. It the dealers and boxmen want to be jerks why should you be the nice guy? You just have to remember that there is always that next casino right next door when you are playing in Vegas that will give you a better game. Fill out a comment card get the dealers name and the boxman's name. Mail it in , do not turn it in at the casino. Let them know because of those that were dealing the game to you,..you will not be coming back, and that you are telling all of your friends about the lousy experience you had there!

"a lot of casinos will only leave your turned off bets up for so long then they will take them all down, it depends or the dealers and boxmen" How is this possible ? That is my money to be played with as I choose. Why even have a "off" button in the first place? How are they in control of my bets? Can I report them to the gaming commission?

Quote: snakeoil

"a lot of casinos will only leave your turned off bets up for so long then they will take them all down, it depends or the dealers and boxmen" How is this possible ? That is my money to be played with as I choose. Why even have a "off" button in the first place? How are they in control of my bets? Can I report them to the gaming commission?

I don't think you were doing this, but, sometimes players will setup a bunch of place bets and after a few hit, they turn them off. If they don't turn them back on within a few rolls, they are returned to the player. It's a pain in the ass when one (or more) players have their bets off, especially on a long roll. Then, when the inevitable 7-out rolls, remembering not to collect the bets that were off.

My place bets were turned back on immediately after a new point was established. And after 5-7 rolls with no point, I turned off. Surely going off every 5-7 rolls isn't too much is it? I'm sure he should remember to not collect my place bets, they were the big ones that got pressed. Everyone was playing $5 units. I was playing $10-25 units. I was sure to remember when a 7-out came. I don't think they should be able to return it to the player. Why even have an "off" button in the first place then. It seems like more work for them for them to take down all my chips off place bets than to just put out a little "OFF" button. I still don't know why they were not pressing my place bets at my proper unit though. Should I have stated "full press" at a $5 table? I felt like they were trying to screw me every chance they got. No wonder people get an "It's us vs. the casino" attitude. I will try your suggestion and mail in the comment cards with the times, dates, and names of all the parties involved. Stick, dealer, boxman, and floor.

Quote: snakeoil

"a lot of casinos will only leave your turned off bets up for so long then they will take them all down, it depends or the dealers and boxmen" How is this possible ? That is my money to be played with as I choose. Why even have a "off" button in the first place? How are they in control of my bets? Can I report them to the gaming commission?

Yes, it's your money but the dealers have a lot going on. The off button is used when someone turns off their bets for one or two rolls,..like when the dice go off the table or the drink girl comes to the table or a stick change is happening! It's no big deal that they are taking down your bets, just look at the room they have to work with when you are placing your bets. Some dealers are better then others, sometimes it's not the dealers,...it's the casinos policy to take the bets down.

While it may seem like they are trying to get to you by taking them down, they are just following policy! Now as far as having the dealers and boxman laughing at you that's a different story. Don't sweat the small stuff, you will have a better experience, by doing so!

Quote: RS

I don't think you were doing this, but, sometimes players will setup a bunch of place bets and after a few hit, they turn them off. If they don't turn them back on within a few rolls, they are returned to the player. It's a pain in the ass when one (or more) players have their bets off, especially on a long roll. Then, when the inevitable 7-out rolls, remembering not to collect the bets that were off.

Think like you're on the other side of the table, if you were you would want to make it as easy as you could, so you wouldn't make any mistakes. As RS said you could have two or more players with their bets turned off at the same time. The eye in the sky wants to see the lay out and make sure that the dealers are not pulling any fast ones!
So the less bets that are in the place bet boxes the easier it is on them to see what is happening.

Ok, I can buy that. So after my 5-7th roll, I should ask for all of it to be taken down. When the new point is established put out all the same amounts on the same place bets? Sorry, I'm still learning. It just seems that nothing has changed. Also when I had a $25 don't pass and the point was a 6 or 8. I would place $250 dont pass odds. The dealer said I should have gone $240, but should I have gone to $252?

Quote: snakeoil

but when I play craps it's different. The dealers are outright hostile.

Quote:

Every time I pressed a $12 place bet on a 6 or 8, they would only put $6 on and toss me back the change

. This has been talked about here quite a bit. Each casino is a little different about house rules. They don't have to fade your bets and you don't have to make them.

Quote:

It was clear I was playing $10 units on a 5 dollar table. Same with a $10 place bet on the 5. I'd ask for a press and they would only put $5 on it and give me the change

. The term "press" which is short for "pressure" can mean slightly different things. Have you not been present at a table when someone will throw 3 dollars out on a hardway and say 3 dollars pressure on the hard 8 when they already had a bet out? Happens all the time. Its your money and your duty to be in control of it. As much as I would like the dealers to be able to read my mind, they fail, miserably. Learn how to shout if necessary the term "WAIT" a second here, that's not what I want. Be clear or be prepared to lose your money.

Quote:

I would turn off my place bets

The rule at one place I play is you can only take your bets "off" for three rolls. It is a security measure because over millions of games eventually someone will forget and get really pissed off when they don't collect and then there are "shot takers" It's nothing personal, its just the game.

Quote:

How can the dealers tell me how to play?

Again, their house their rules, find a way to make it work.

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I'm sure I was not overworking them

do not be concerned with overworking them they get a break every 20 minutes, so it ain't gonna happen.

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I would turn off my place bets and pull everything down, even my field bet

either this is a typo or [no offense] a lack of experience. Field bets are one roll bets. What is the problem with them taking them down? Maybe it actually helped you and gave you a chance to reassess your wagers?

Quote:

but they were still hostile

never forget this, if they act nice, that is just it, an act. They are not our friends.They hate you, me and anyone else that can be playing while they are serving.

Quote:

they can't just push my bets down can they?

Yes, they can not only push your money, they can at any time tell you to gtfo of their casino.

Quote:

And if I press a full unit that I am playing

which brings up the question, what is a full unit? Are all units the same? I say a "unit" is whatever amount it takes for one measure wagered to collect an odds pay if won. So, either work it out with your base dealer what a "unit" is going to be, or consider saying full press or all the way up.

Quote:

Is this harrassment or cheating me?

In this particular case I would say they were "playing" with you. You were their pawn

And then there is this from a post below..."I was playing $10-25 units". Does this mean you were betting 250 per throw? Above it was a 12$ bet you wanted pressed, that is a long roll to get to 250 per throw and not a wager that would be on the 6/8. Don't have more bets out there than you can wrap your mind around, it takes time to keep all the balls in the air when juggling.

Quote: snakeoil

Ok, I can buy that. So after my 5-7th roll, I should ask for all of it to be taken down. When the new point is established put out all the same amounts on the same place bets? Sorry, I'm still learning. It just seems that nothing has changed. Also when I had a $25 don't pass and the point was a 6 or 8. I would place $250 dont pass odds. The dealer said I should have gone $240, but should I have gone to $252?

The odds on the 6/8 pays 6 to 5 on the pass and 5 for 6 on the don't pass. There is no vig for passline bets. Go up above and click on the search box, the wizards board has a plethora of craps topics to read and is a great resource. So far, its free. The more any of us know about any game we play the better our chances of a desirable outcome.

After a long roll with no point, I would pull the place bets down, my odds on my pass line, and my field bet. I kept putting the field bet out when it paid or if it lost. I didn't put it out after a long roll, my fault for not clarifying that. Sometimes I would bet $25 instead of $10 on the pass line. If my point was a 5, I'd place the 6 and 8 for $30 and take $100 odds on my pass line, with a $25 field bet, so $210 in play. It was my intent to cover all the numbers by always placing 5/6/8 and a field bet. I would have 3 to 4 numbers working including the pass line depending on the point, press my place bets when they hit and come off after about 5 rolls. Then repeat it. I did that with $10 bets aswell.