Tipping pressure makes me stop playing craps
September 14th, 2014 at 7:39:41 AM
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The pressure from dealers to tip is so freaking annoying, it bothers the heck out of me. It is to the point where I've decide to stop playing on craps tables and prefer to play the electronic games instead. same odds, same chance of winning. No tipping pressure, much better game for me
September 14th, 2014 at 7:46:17 AM
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Quote: FroggerThe pressure from dealers to tip is so freaking annoying, it bothers the heck out of me. It is to the point where I've decide to stop playing on craps tables and prefer to play the electronic games instead. same odds, same chance of winning. No tipping pressure, much better game for me
game moves faster, so you will bet more, which will make you lose money quicker. I would prefer to deal with the idiot dealers and last longer at the table.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
September 14th, 2014 at 8:23:04 AM
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Like timeshare hawkers, just ignore them and play your game.
September 14th, 2014 at 9:15:54 AM
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I hear what the OP is saying. It's a little hard to "just ignore them" if you have 3 dealers giving you a hard time all at once and whispering to each other in between.
To the OP: I'm an above average tipper, yet I still get crap from these idiots, too.
To the OP: I'm an above average tipper, yet I still get crap from these idiots, too.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
September 14th, 2014 at 9:25:39 AM
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Sorry, I don't get it. If it bothers you that much complain to the PB. Sure they will think you are an a-hole but do you really care? Many people play craps and don't tip until the end or at all and still enjoy and play their game.
September 14th, 2014 at 9:26:13 AM
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Quote: Beethoven9thI hear what the OP is saying. It's a little hard to "just ignore them" if you have 3 dealers giving you a hard time all at once and whispering to each other in between.
To the OP: I'm an above average tipper, yet I still get crap from these idiots, too.
Get in their face. Remember you can walk away any time but they have to stay.
aahigh.com
September 14th, 2014 at 10:24:17 AM
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Quote: AhighGet in their face. Remember you can walk away any time but they have to stay.
Yes. Say "Guys - really, it's getting shameless. Stop it and focus on the game. You're killing your tokes by doing this." Tell them straight up.
Also complain to management as a customer service issue. Badgering for tips is a bad mark on the place.
I generally tip starting out on the table, pass line + odds, later hardways dollars. If I don't get badgered, I'll resume again later on.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 14th, 2014 at 10:39:49 AM
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The only time I have ever played craps and I ran into the Craps dealer and the secret bet
September 14th, 2014 at 12:06:11 PM
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Haven't had this kind of experience, yet. I play at Spokane, WA, & Vegas; never got this hassle. You haven't said how or if you tip. At the end of my sessions, I tip my min. wager, win or lose. It's always acknowledged. Do that & maybe that will shut them up.
September 14th, 2014 at 1:58:44 PM
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I rarely run into this issue, the one time I distinctly remember it in Vegas was after winning $600 off the all bet and stiffing them. I had hedged it (I know), so I only saw a couple hundred of it. That guy wasn't tipped for the rest of the night by me.
The side issue I have is when they don't acknowledge a tip. I haven't played at Bellagio for quite awhile because I had a couple of dealers that didn't even say thank you for multiple $5 tips.
Complain and if it isn't fixed soon go elsewhere (if possible). This is one of those things that the suits upstairs should have a zero tolerance policy on, solicit a tip and fire them on the spot.
The side issue I have is when they don't acknowledge a tip. I haven't played at Bellagio for quite awhile because I had a couple of dealers that didn't even say thank you for multiple $5 tips.
Complain and if it isn't fixed soon go elsewhere (if possible). This is one of those things that the suits upstairs should have a zero tolerance policy on, solicit a tip and fire them on the spot.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
September 14th, 2014 at 2:22:22 PM
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I don't know why Management would allow that. Sounds like the inmates running the asylum. I'd suspend somebody without pay on the first offense and fire them on the second. If Management makes it clear that kind of thing is not acceptable, it wouldn't happen. I blame Management for allowing it.
ZCore13
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
September 14th, 2014 at 2:52:32 PM
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It's easy to say that if you're a tourist who comes here a few times per year. It's different when you live here and have certain places where you like to play. Personally, I don't like to have a bad reputation at places I physically go to on a regular basis.Quote: BozSorry, I don't get it. If it bothers you that much complain to the PB. Sure they will think you are an a-hole but do you really care?
Fighting BS one post at a time!
September 14th, 2014 at 3:27:57 PM
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Quote: Beethoven9thIt's easy to say that if you're a tourist who comes here a few times per year. It's different when you live here and have certain places where you like to play. Personally, I don't like to have a bad reputation at places I physically go to on a regular basis.
Sometimes you're better off just paying the vig
September 14th, 2014 at 7:26:59 PM
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I have a simple policy: any dealer toke-hustling will never see a cent from me on a table game. And I don't mind sitting there for hours without tipping.
Tips should be rewards for the dealer providing a fun atmosphere and good service. Asking for tokes, hustling for tokes, or giving a player dirty looks or dirty comments for not tipping are the exact opposite of a fun atmosphere.
A good time to tip is if the dealer is going beyond what is required to make your game a fun time. Teaching you the rules of the game, cracking jokes, helping the player bet -- these are all better reasons to tip than just the fact that you're winning or even just playing at their craps table.
Also, I think tipping is super overrated, even if the dealer is fun and professional. There's not much you actually GET from a tip aside from the satisfaction of doing a good deed. But you can use that money to do better deeds outside the casino.
I remember one time long, long ago, I was walking to my car outside the Taj and was approached by a homeless person and had nothing to give him. I must have tipped off $20 that night in the poker room. I think that $20 would have been put to a lot better use by the homeless person than by the shitty poker dealers at the Taj.
One of the dumbest attitudes that is common among beginning gamblers is that tipping the dealer will help them win. Dealers like to encourage this superstition. They say things like "you take care of me, I'll take care of you," as if tipping them suddenly allows them to deal you naturals at 21 and good cards at poker. I think saying something like that should be a fireable offense, as it implies the dealer is going to cheat to help the player win if he tips.
Of course, he isn't going to cheat. He is simply going to take credit when the gambler wins and say "better luck next time" when the gambler loses. It's a little freeroll.
Tips should be rewards for the dealer providing a fun atmosphere and good service. Asking for tokes, hustling for tokes, or giving a player dirty looks or dirty comments for not tipping are the exact opposite of a fun atmosphere.
A good time to tip is if the dealer is going beyond what is required to make your game a fun time. Teaching you the rules of the game, cracking jokes, helping the player bet -- these are all better reasons to tip than just the fact that you're winning or even just playing at their craps table.
Also, I think tipping is super overrated, even if the dealer is fun and professional. There's not much you actually GET from a tip aside from the satisfaction of doing a good deed. But you can use that money to do better deeds outside the casino.
I remember one time long, long ago, I was walking to my car outside the Taj and was approached by a homeless person and had nothing to give him. I must have tipped off $20 that night in the poker room. I think that $20 would have been put to a lot better use by the homeless person than by the shitty poker dealers at the Taj.
One of the dumbest attitudes that is common among beginning gamblers is that tipping the dealer will help them win. Dealers like to encourage this superstition. They say things like "you take care of me, I'll take care of you," as if tipping them suddenly allows them to deal you naturals at 21 and good cards at poker. I think saying something like that should be a fireable offense, as it implies the dealer is going to cheat to help the player win if he tips.
Of course, he isn't going to cheat. He is simply going to take credit when the gambler wins and say "better luck next time" when the gambler loses. It's a little freeroll.
September 14th, 2014 at 7:37:30 PM
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Well said Soda!
September 14th, 2014 at 7:48:07 PM
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Quote: Beethoven9thIt's easy to say that if you're a tourist who comes here a few times per year. It's different when you live here and have certain places where you like to play. Personally, I don't like to have a bad reputation at places I physically go to on a regular basis.
No its not easy to say, its the way I play in Vegas, AC and PA (where I live). I don't have time for that nonsense and will not tip anyone who pushes for one. And it doesn't bother my game. sorry it does you. If it causes you a bad reputation it is because you don't tip at the end either. And if you don't, its YOUR choice. But if you do and you are known by the dealers to tip at the end of a session since you are a regular, I don't think they will hustle you for tips knowing your tipping habits.
September 14th, 2014 at 8:05:46 PM
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Perhaps you didn't read my post. I'm an above average tipper, yet some of these dealers give players grief about tipping right after they start their session. So I know exactly what the OP is talking about. I'm glad that this has never happened to you though.Quote: BozIf it causes you a bad reputation it is because you don't tip at the end either.
But good for you for not letting it bother you if the dealers can't stand you. That's not my idea of a good time, but to each his own.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
September 14th, 2014 at 8:49:29 PM
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There are so many 'tudes here bout dealers
and tipping. I worked for tips for years, it
changes you. We don't look at customers
as real people, they're just marks that we
get money from. Some get carried away
with it, but it's a fact that we are very aware
that a lot of our income is from the public
giving us money, and it influences how we act.
If somebody gave me a big tip, I took it but
thought he was an idiot. I mentioned this
before and got a lot of heated comments.
It's a fact in every tipping business. I also
said the Mob has always tipped big, not
because they care, but because it puts a
huge gap between you and them. When
Sinatra gave a kid Benjamin in 1957 for
parking his car, he was saying the valet
was so far down the food chain from him
they weren't in the same universe.
and tipping. I worked for tips for years, it
changes you. We don't look at customers
as real people, they're just marks that we
get money from. Some get carried away
with it, but it's a fact that we are very aware
that a lot of our income is from the public
giving us money, and it influences how we act.
If somebody gave me a big tip, I took it but
thought he was an idiot. I mentioned this
before and got a lot of heated comments.
It's a fact in every tipping business. I also
said the Mob has always tipped big, not
because they care, but because it puts a
huge gap between you and them. When
Sinatra gave a kid Benjamin in 1957 for
parking his car, he was saying the valet
was so far down the food chain from him
they weren't in the same universe.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 14th, 2014 at 9:03:36 PM
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I disagree slightly about Frank. I think he tipped big because he always wanted to be the biggest guy of the night/among whoever was watching/to feed the legend. He cared a lot about status and perception. He wanted everybody to know about his success and be totally impressed that they'd gotten to work him, so he papered all the hands around him.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 14th, 2014 at 9:15:37 PM
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Quote: beachbumbabsI disagree slightly about Frank. I think he tipped big because he always wanted to be the biggest guy of the night/among whoever was watching/to feed the legend. He cared a lot about status and perception.
He learned how to tip from the Mob guys
he hung with. They tipped big for reasons
you sited, status and perception. They have
made it and the person they tipped hasn't.
Remember the scene in Goodfellas where
Deniro's character comes into the nightclub
and is stuffing 20's in every hand and shirt
pocket of the staff? That's what they did,
that's where Frank learned it. I've made it
and you haven't. Schmuck..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 15th, 2014 at 3:54:58 AM
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I am not all that much of an assertive person, sometimes I kick myself even, thinking I should have complained about my entree or whatever [altho a lot of that is not wanting to ruin a good time]. But I can tell you I can't imagine not being able to brush off requests for tips and making the dealer who did such look like a complete ass, and [unspoken] daring him to escalate the issue and 'see who wins'.
On the other hand, I have only been in Vegas once and AC once. Maybe if I hung out in those places I'd find out I could be bested [g]. If the Boxman or Pit Boss backs up the asinine dealers, that might do it, although it really does say "man I walked into the wrong place this time" .... I remember once a bar where I was afraid for my safety [oh hell that's another story]
On the other hand, I have only been in Vegas once and AC once. Maybe if I hung out in those places I'd find out I could be bested [g]. If the Boxman or Pit Boss backs up the asinine dealers, that might do it, although it really does say "man I walked into the wrong place this time" .... I remember once a bar where I was afraid for my safety [oh hell that's another story]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
September 15th, 2014 at 6:46:34 AM
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I used to love craps but haven't played in 20 years solely because of toke-hustling dealers.
Now I've discovered Shoot To Win and can play a little.
Now I've discovered Shoot To Win and can play a little.
September 15th, 2014 at 7:27:54 AM
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Quote: Beethoven9thPerhaps you didn't read my post. I'm an above average tipper, yet some of these dealers give players grief about tipping right after they start their session. So I know exactly what the OP is talking about. I'm glad that this has never happened to you though.
But good for you for not letting it bother you if the dealers can't stand you. That's not my idea of a good time, but to each his own.
OK, I'll bite. So assuming all of this correct and the dealers cant stand me because I dont tip until the end at a casino where I frequent on a regular basis and most of the dealers know me......how exactly does this effect my time at the tables? Are the dealers going to miss my bets? Short my wins? Stare at me?
I get it some people feel uncomfortable when the dealers are harrasing them for tips and are afraid to say anything about it at the risk of being "unliked". So either deal with it or move on. From the crowds at the craps tables I see across the country, this must be a small minority of people moving on.
2 Industry guys on here posted they would not allow it in their casinos and consider it unacceptable.
And Thanks for being "Glad" for me. Although I never said it hasnt happened to me.
September 15th, 2014 at 8:44:29 AM
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Um...this was the OP's entire point. He decided to "move on", yet you criticized him and told him to "just ignore them and play your game".Quote: BozSo either deal with it or move on.
Well, maybe they're like you and enjoy being around people who can't stand them. If so, good for them.Quote: BozFrom the crowds at the craps tables I see across the country, this must be a small minority of people moving on.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
September 15th, 2014 at 9:18:45 AM
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Sometimes I really wonder about craps and how much they can make in tips considering how much labor involved.
3 dealers plus the management looking person overseeing the whole operation.
I geuss the suit also gets a cut or is that person considered management and no cut?
Current favorite craps table , Binions party pit, just played last night, nice cleavage. Quickly lost a little, walked away, no tip.
3 dealers plus the management looking person overseeing the whole operation.
I geuss the suit also gets a cut or is that person considered management and no cut?
Current favorite craps table , Binions party pit, just played last night, nice cleavage. Quickly lost a little, walked away, no tip.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
September 15th, 2014 at 10:09:01 AM
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No tips for suits, generally. They're executives, not laborers.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 15th, 2014 at 12:56:53 PM
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My wife is a 'coffee tipper'. She grades the
waitress on how full she keeps the cup. I
hate coffee, but my wife lives on it. Poor
attention to the coffee level will get you a
big fat zero tip, it drives me nuts. I'm so
thankful I never got hooked on that stuff,
it runs peoples lives, just like any substance
habit does.
waitress on how full she keeps the cup. I
hate coffee, but my wife lives on it. Poor
attention to the coffee level will get you a
big fat zero tip, it drives me nuts. I'm so
thankful I never got hooked on that stuff,
it runs peoples lives, just like any substance
habit does.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 15th, 2014 at 6:49:08 PM
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In Australia, it is against government regulations for casino dealers to accept tips.
Their employer pays them...just like it should be.
Their employer pays them...just like it should be.
September 15th, 2014 at 7:15:35 PM
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Quote: MorgueIn Australia, it is against government regulations for casino dealers to accept tips.
Their employer pays them...just like it should be.
You're right about that.
You cannot count on the kindness of strangers in this world. Or even business associates. Or in some cases family.
Higher pay for dealers just to put up with gamblers in indeed in order without depending on them to ever toke.
Why count on unguaranteed tokes from cheep bastids when you can count on and know a solid and decent salary no matter how you treat these ungrateful pedestrians. If they're gonna stiff you from the get-go, then minimal compliance is indeed very fine and the order of the day. And let 6:5 pay for this. For any dealer, and with tokes now being out of the equation, then return attitude for attitude with all things now being equal. No longer worry about people, and no longer have an incentive to patronize of all people, gamblers. And let them play slots if table games become too expensive, because then it will become for the elite.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 15th, 2014 at 7:28:53 PM
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Someone made an interesting analogy to me a while back. Another occupation that is similar to casino dealing in terms of skill sets (math, organization, being entrusted with the company's money, customer service, etc) is bank teller. Would you pay a bank teller minimum wage?
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
September 15th, 2014 at 7:46:13 PM
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Quote: DeucekiesWould you pay a bank teller minimum wage?
They don't? Or pretty close?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
September 15th, 2014 at 7:47:42 PM
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True.
A dealer is expected to be a world-class perfect musician in "terms of fantastic hands" on a game, an entertainer like a witty and patient bartender, a perfect "on the fly" mathematician, and is also responsible for a player's personal luck. "Bob D." doesn't have crap on the typical casino schnoorer, and he wouldn't be who he is if he had ever dealt to the very likes of his own character. And this is in front of the (consistently most) infantile gamblers who blame them for all, and may try to get away with any scam argument if a free lunch could be gotten away with. You could stand out as a saint alone by playing clean all the time and occasionally tipping.
I do not think ANYONE at this board would deal to the typical member of this board for less than $35 an hour reading the tip/toke reading threads and the "casino as enemy" attitudes when push comes to shove in paying your rent with a job in this business. It was a difficult and utterly thankless job for $32,000 a year for a number of years, but with Stations it had GREAT health insurance, and a bizarrely respectful, intelligent, decent, and kind management at Fiesta Henderson (the property specifically from 2008 to 2012) that made it all worth while. I remember those few decent executives, and remain in contact with them as I have risen a little bit.
Actually, Hector C. and Bryan A. and a few others at Stations made it very worthwhile, and not like being in U.S. Army basic training on a perpetual basis, which is what being a casino dealer's job is. Constantly yelled at by false drill sergeants on the floor and dealing with casino players (often from various forums) who treat you as an enemy simply for suiting up and showing up for work. And I will say, with generally very little thanks to the typical gambler, - including many here. Rough job.
Suit up and show up, and deal for a few years in a mid-level joint, and see what the human condition is really about in the form of a typical gambler in a customer service job, and you will see my point.
Please tip something to dealers and housekeepers, as a part of your time in their rooms and tables, if you weren't a treat for them to service you. Odds on, you weren't.
A dealer is expected to be a world-class perfect musician in "terms of fantastic hands" on a game, an entertainer like a witty and patient bartender, a perfect "on the fly" mathematician, and is also responsible for a player's personal luck. "Bob D." doesn't have crap on the typical casino schnoorer, and he wouldn't be who he is if he had ever dealt to the very likes of his own character. And this is in front of the (consistently most) infantile gamblers who blame them for all, and may try to get away with any scam argument if a free lunch could be gotten away with. You could stand out as a saint alone by playing clean all the time and occasionally tipping.
I do not think ANYONE at this board would deal to the typical member of this board for less than $35 an hour reading the tip/toke reading threads and the "casino as enemy" attitudes when push comes to shove in paying your rent with a job in this business. It was a difficult and utterly thankless job for $32,000 a year for a number of years, but with Stations it had GREAT health insurance, and a bizarrely respectful, intelligent, decent, and kind management at Fiesta Henderson (the property specifically from 2008 to 2012) that made it all worth while. I remember those few decent executives, and remain in contact with them as I have risen a little bit.
Actually, Hector C. and Bryan A. and a few others at Stations made it very worthwhile, and not like being in U.S. Army basic training on a perpetual basis, which is what being a casino dealer's job is. Constantly yelled at by false drill sergeants on the floor and dealing with casino players (often from various forums) who treat you as an enemy simply for suiting up and showing up for work. And I will say, with generally very little thanks to the typical gambler, - including many here. Rough job.
Suit up and show up, and deal for a few years in a mid-level joint, and see what the human condition is really about in the form of a typical gambler in a customer service job, and you will see my point.
Please tip something to dealers and housekeepers, as a part of your time in their rooms and tables, if you weren't a treat for them to service you. Odds on, you weren't.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 16th, 2014 at 1:07:01 AM
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I worked as a bank teller for 2 years in the early '80's. For minimum wage. There were a few opportunities to move up after the first year, but I was doing it to pay the rent, not as a career. I moved on to the graveyard shift at Perkin's corporate store #1, and made better money waiting table.
There are many safeguards to keep minimum wage workers from stealing as a teller. You have to balance your drawer every day, to the penny, which means someone else counts it down with you standing there. You're on camera pretty much all the time. And as much as anything, after a couple of weeks it just becomes pieces of paper, not money.
There are many safeguards to keep minimum wage workers from stealing as a teller. You have to balance your drawer every day, to the penny, which means someone else counts it down with you standing there. You're on camera pretty much all the time. And as much as anything, after a couple of weeks it just becomes pieces of paper, not money.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 16th, 2014 at 5:00:39 AM
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I understand the dividing line between chip hustling and normal play may be vague for some players. It is a personal thing.Quote: BozLike timeshare hawkers, just ignore them and play your game.
Let's analyze this from the point of view of what is being given up?
Reminders about odds?
Decision making ability?
What?
There is not all that which a live dealer does for you, If you are already a good craps player.
Tipping should never be done to stop the whining.
If you truly want to go against the social norms thats fine.
September 16th, 2014 at 5:48:39 AM
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There's a thread on fark.com (with linked article) that might provide some entertainment value to people who spend time reading topics like this one :)
http://www.fark.com/comments/8415029/Finally-a-comprehensive-list-of-who-in-service-industry-youre-obligated-to-tip-how-much-Yes-garbage-collector-deserves-$20-every-Christmas
http://www.fark.com/comments/8415029/Finally-a-comprehensive-list-of-who-in-service-industry-youre-obligated-to-tip-how-much-Yes-garbage-collector-deserves-$20-every-Christmas
September 16th, 2014 at 6:26:23 AM
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Those who expect that should tip more and often. People who just expect them to do their JOB should not be expected to tip every time they get a F-ing BJ.Quote: PaigowdanTrue.
A dealer is expected to be a world-class perfect musician in "terms of fantastic hands" on a game, an entertainer like a witty and patient bartender, a perfect "on the fly" mathematician, and is also responsible for a player's personal luck.
.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 16th, 2014 at 6:42:59 AM
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Quote: DeucekiesWould you pay a bank teller minimum wage?
Or tip them just for handing you your own money (like a casino cage employee)?
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
September 16th, 2014 at 6:48:40 AM
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Yeah, the cage has a jar at every open window. Never could get my head around that one.Quote: zippyboyOr tip them just for handing you your own money (like a casino cage employee)?
September 16th, 2014 at 7:20:42 AM
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Quote: Scooter77There's a thread on fark.com (with linked article) that might provide some entertainment value to people who spend time reading topics like this one :)
http://www.fark.com/comments/8415029/Finally-a-comprehensive-list-of-who-in-service-industry-youre-obligated-to-tip-how-much-Yes-garbage-collector-deserves-$20-every-Christmas
Re: Tipping Garbage Collectors... We moved into our house about a year ago. After a few months, I noticed that our across-the-street neighbor put what appeared to be a small Styrofoam cooler out with his garbage. No biggie, people throw those away all the time. A few weeks later, I noticed another cooler out with his garbage, and it looked like the same one he threw out previously.
After that I looked at his garbage every week, and sure enough, that cooler was out by the curb every week. Then it dawned on me, and a few weeks ago my suspicions were confirmed... I was running late one morning, and saw the garbage truck coming down my street. I waited until they got to my neighbor's house, and sure enough, after emptying his garbage cans, the GC's opened the cooler and grabbed some beverages from within!
After that, I watched as they dumped the ice out of the cooler, and then proceeded to carry his garbage cans and the cooler and stack them neatly around the side of his house! I guess that's what tipping the GC's gets you.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
September 16th, 2014 at 7:39:34 AM
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Yes, I believe it is still minimum wage, or the salaried equivalent of minimum wage ($2X,XXX/year + benefits). I never really understood why a job so important as handling people's money should be so low paying.Quote: beachbumbabsI worked as a bank teller for 2 years in the early '80's. For minimum wage. There were a few opportunities to move up after the first year, but I was doing it to pay the rent, not as a career.
Then again, I've also heard the easier your job is, the more it pays.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
September 16th, 2014 at 8:35:02 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfThose who expect that should tip more and often. People who just expect them to do their JOB should not be expected to tip every time they get a F-ing BJ.
So are we to suppose that you do indeed tip the dealers who do their job and don't worry about or ask for tips - which are the majority of dealers? Or do you leave that to others to carry that weight? I have my doubts hearing the sentiments on this thread.
I'm not saying dealers should make $500 a day in tips. But keep in mind that if no one tipped, dealers would be salaried at $15+/hr, as payroll salary costs would double, and we'd see nothing but $25 tables and 6:5, if not even money BJ's. Since you would never toss in the petty breakage anyway, that may be just as well to cover dealing to such customers.
In the sense that "being cheap will cost you," if no one tipped, then everyone would have to tip through more costly playing conditions. And if some - enough people tipped, then it would be other people who are carrying your weight for the better playing conditions you enjoy.
I play frequently here in Vegas, and from the Cannery group, to Stations properties, to the M, I don't come across dealers who worry or badger people for tips, because it generally is NOT there. And if I did see it, I'd correct that dealer. Instead, I see polite dealers who act polite and do their jobs when treated with any human courtesy.
I really don't think dealers are the problem; I'd say a lot of the general gambling public leaves a lot to be desired. Like I said, if a lot of the people here had to deal to themselves, $25 tables, 2% BJ, 8% carny games, and even money Blackjacks would be the order of the day just to keep things running.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 16th, 2014 at 10:17:06 AM
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BS. It works in other places.Quote: Paigowdan.
I really don't think dealers are the problem; I'd say a lot of the general gambling public leaves a lot to be desired. Like I said, if a lot of the people here had to deal to themselves, $25 tables, 2% BJ, 8% carny games, and even money Blackjacks would be the order of the day just to keep things running.
The money we didn't tip would go to the house and make up for better pay. people don't separate their tip money from gambling most of the time. Its extra money that will go to the house.
IE. $100 buy in on BJ is played until it's lost or tipped. Sure it might not make up 100% of it. However, they will save all the extra time and money needed to secured track and count the tips. If dealers spent less time worrying about tips the games would move faster.
Some dealers will act properly for a while, some don't care, some are complete dicks/bitches wen it comes to tipping. We ave had a few casino employee here admit they try to F*&$ anyone over on comps and call them cheats for not tipping enough. Most BJ dealers suck at being tippers.
If you go on a run and you are not tipping, you can see the look on most all of their faces and feel the tension. People have said they avoid playing tables because of this. They do EXPECT tips. I don't think they are any different than the Walmart deli worker or the FF worker.
They need to have a yearly prepaid tipping card/app you can buy. You present it to everyone at the time of a tip. They won't know how they get because it all gets divided up according to jobs and how the employees are rated from your rating app.
Since they already have 6 to 5 BJ, do you agree anyone playing a place that has a lot of 6 to 5, everybody should stiff at those locations?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 16th, 2014 at 10:55:50 AM
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+1Quote: AxelWolfBS. It works in other places.
Gotta agree with Axel. Foreign casinos that don't allow tipping seem to do just fine. I always hear all this apocalyptic talk if we ever got rid of tipping in the US, but I don't buy it for a second.
+100Quote: AxelWolfIf you go on a run and you are not tipping, you can see the look on most all of their faces and feel the tension. People have said they avoid playing tables because of this. They do EXPECT tips. I don't think they are any different than the Walmart deli worker or the FF worker.
I see that happen ALL the time. Craps dealers are the worst because there are 3 of them (plus the box) at the table, and these idiots get much more bold when they're in a group setting compared to when they're dealing alone at a BJ table.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
September 16th, 2014 at 10:58:09 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanTrue.
A dealer is expected to be a world-class perfect musician in "terms of fantastic hands" on a game, an entertainer like a witty and patient bartender, a perfect "on the fly" mathematician, and is also responsible for a player's personal luck. "Bob D." doesn't have crap on the typical casino schnoorer, and he wouldn't be who he is if he had ever dealt to the very likes of his own character. And this is in front of the (consistently most) infantile gamblers who blame them for all, and may try to get away with any scam argument if a free lunch could be gotten away with. You could stand out as a saint alone by playing clean all the time and occasionally tipping.
I do not think ANYONE at this board would deal to the typical member of this board for less than $35 an hour reading the tip/toke reading threads and the "casino as enemy" attitudes when push comes to shove in paying your rent with a job in this business. It was a difficult and utterly thankless job for $32,000 a year for a number of years, but with Stations it had GREAT health insurance, and a bizarrely respectful, intelligent, decent, and kind management at Fiesta Henderson (the property specifically from 2008 to 2012) that made it all worth while. I remember those few decent executives, and remain in contact with them as I have risen a little bit.
Actually, Hector C. and Bryan A. and a few others at Stations made it very worthwhile, and not like being in U.S. Army basic training on a perpetual basis, which is what being a casino dealer's job is. Constantly yelled at by false drill sergeants on the floor and dealing with casino players (often from various forums) who treat you as an enemy simply for suiting up and showing up for work. And I will say, with generally very little thanks to the typical gambler, - including many here. Rough job.
Suit up and show up, and deal for a few years in a mid-level joint, and see what the human condition is really about in the form of a typical gambler in a customer service job, and you will see my point.
Please tip something to dealers and housekeepers, as a part of your time in their rooms and tables, if you weren't a treat for them to service you. Odds on, you weren't.
Just to play devil's advocate, who is forcing them to take a job in the service industry?
September 16th, 2014 at 10:58:31 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 16th, 2014 at 12:28:01 PM
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Quote: aceofspades
Just to play devil's advocate, who is forcing them to take a job in the service industry?
No one. Depending on the casino house, the job frequently stinks because of pay composed primarily of tips.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 16th, 2014 at 12:30:51 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesI think we should start outing tip whoring dealers by name and place of employment.
Yes. Start directly with their management.
I see two problems here:
1. Tip whoring dealers, and;
2. Stiff cheapskate gamblers.
They deserve each other.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 16th, 2014 at 12:40:38 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanNo one. Depending on the casino house, the job frequently stinks because of pay composed primarily of tips.
Like any job dependent on tips, I see it as a stepping stone to something better for those who are ambitious for their careers. I've seen accounts of dealers who have retired after 20 or so years in the occupation, and that's fine.
However, I've seen young, mathematically, quick-thinking, talented, and personable people dealing at some tables. They have skills and abilities to succeed in most college-level programs. It's well known that aspiring actors wait tables, waiting for that big chance. For all I know, these dealers are attending college, etc. But, to me, people who can deal craps are exceptional, indeed.
September 16th, 2014 at 1:38:36 PM
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Dealing can be both a stepping stone and a permanent gig.
For some of the permanent dealers, while not always gritty, there is a jaded thick skin to them.
I found some attending college, and a few with degrees using it as a stepping stone in gaming. I was one. Many, most, move up on the operator side: floorman, shift manager, TGD, etc.
For some of the permanent dealers, while not always gritty, there is a jaded thick skin to them.
I found some attending college, and a few with degrees using it as a stepping stone in gaming. I was one. Many, most, move up on the operator side: floorman, shift manager, TGD, etc.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 16th, 2014 at 1:41:48 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanYes. Start directly with their management.
I see two problems here:
1. Tip whoring dealers, and;
2. Stiff cheapskate gamblers.
They deserve each other.
Here is another take albeit also unpopular.
IMO, if the dealers would all just join a union and bargain together they would have not only a better wage package but a better life.
If Reagan hadn't started the union busting, by now most everyone would have health care. It is the only protection workers will ever have is if they unite.
I'm not saying there arn't abuses, of course there are. But don't throw out the baby /water.
Whatever they and their employer agree too is fine with me and those that wish to tip can do so as well. Nothing wrong with dealers having a decent middle class life. Standing all day and putting up with aholes is hard work. Things will get worse for them with the animosity toward tip hustlers as the economy declines.
I want to share my personal experience that I don't see represented here. My tipping for years has cost me very close to 1/2 my yearly gambling losses.
This is something that irks me. I tip, I put the dealers in the game. When other players don't tip, for whatver the reason the dealers still want me to continue to tip, it seems at an unequal rate. I don't think I seem so stupid to them that I don't know what is happening. When the tip hustling is going on it absolutely ruins the fun for me. It can make me leave a game, I dislike being hustled.
I quit playing bj, when it went to 6/5, I seldom will sit at a table, only when I want to sit.
To answer a question about where is the money going to come from. It would be fine with me if they quit giving away alcohol. Let those that drink it pay for it. Do casino's do questionaires to get a feel for what gamblers think? If there is enough money to expand and merger and spend all the money spent, there is enough money to pay dealers a fair wage, whatever that is. My opinion management that either allows this behaviour or teaches it is running off customers.
If dealers are making such petty wages that they can not exist without begging [which is what panhandling, or toke hustling is] then they too like Walmart workers are receiving government aid in the way of food stamps and other forms of assistance. So even the people that don't go into casinos are helping pay the wages of dealers.
I think the day will come when workers again will find out why and how unions formed in the first place. Would they have ever formed had their employers treated them fairly? I don't think so. I even have recommended to workers who were payed more than the going rate to leave the issue alone. Only need to organize when you are being cheated out of your labor. jmo
