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Riva
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AlanMendelson
August 28th, 2014 at 12:23:28 PM permalink
A local gentleman recently donated a 12' casino-quality craps table to our school to use during our fundraising events. The table as well as the layout are virtually brand new condition.

The layout contains all the "hop bets". Our other 14' table does not have hop bets. Thus, in all the years I have been doing this, I've never had a player ask for a hop bet.

My fear is two-fold:

1. While I love one-roll bets, it can sting when the number hits, even with the payoffs shaved. Lots of hits could make for a bad night.

2. I'm thinking that overall, this will slow the game down considerably, (a) in constantly explaining the bet to players, (b) finding/placing the wager on the correct spot and (c) making payouts.

Thoughts?

Thanks.
GWAE
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August 28th, 2014 at 12:40:03 PM permalink
Quote: Riva

A local gentleman recently donated a 12' casino-quality craps table to our school to use during our fundraising events. The table as well as the layout are virtually brand new condition.

The layout contains all the "hop bets". Our other 14' table does not have hop bets. Thus, in all the years I have been doing this, I've never had a player ask for a hop bet.

My fear is two-fold:

1. While I love one-roll bets, it can sting when the number hits, even with the payoffs shaved. Lots of hits could make for a bad night.

2. I'm thinking that overall, this will slow the game down considerably, (a) in constantly explaining the bet to players, (b) finding/placing the wager on the correct spot and (c) making payouts.

Thoughts?

Thanks.



It does slow the game down.

My first thought is that in a limited time you could get killed if a few people have nice payouts on them, however since you limit people to winning $500 in a night I don't think you have to worry about any of that.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
DJTeddyBear
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August 28th, 2014 at 12:45:17 PM permalink
Regarding point 1: it's a non-issue. The risk and payouts are the same as 2,3,11,12 so why sweat it?

Point 2 is a whole nother story. For the reasons mentioned in #2, don't offer the bet. Only a select few players will notice. But I doubt they will complain. It they do, just say it can't be offered since its not on all the tables.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Riva
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August 28th, 2014 at 12:52:04 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

It does slow the game down.

My first thought is that in a limited time you could get killed if a few people have nice payouts on them, however since you limit people to winning $500 in a night I don't think you have to worry about any of that.



I don't have much issue with paying a person $500 a night. What I do have problems with is paying "dozens" of people $500 a night!
With that said, slowing the game down is reason enough for me not to offer the bet.
mustangsally
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August 28th, 2014 at 12:53:31 PM permalink
Quote: Riva

Our other 14' table does not have hop bets. Thus, in all the years I have been doing this, I've never had a player ask for a hop bet.

this is hard to believe

one can not bet the 2,3,11 or 12 on your 14' in the prop bet area?

they have to be hop bets

but I do thinks more hop bets for the players could mean less for your school
that chance is >0 (and you if you get a cut of the profits)

Casino Fundraisers are fun!
I was at one last weekend
Lots of makeup, short dresses, high heels, lots of food and drinks

and that was just the all male band!
hehe
Sally
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Riva
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August 28th, 2014 at 12:57:05 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear


Point 2 is a whole nother story. For the reasons mentioned in #2, don't offer the bet. Only a select few players will notice. But I doubt they will complain. It they do, just say it can't be offered since its not on all the tables.



Rather than leave it out there and have to say "no' all the time, I'll just have a new, custom layout made.
Riva
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August 28th, 2014 at 1:04:34 PM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

this is hard to believe

one can not bet the 2,3,11 or 12 on your 14' in the prop bet area?

they have to be hop bets

but I do thinks more hop bets for the players could mean less for your school
that chance is >0 (and you if you get a cut of the profits)

Casino Fundraisers are fun!
I was at one last weekend
Lots of makeup, short dresses, high heels, lots of food and drinks

and that was just the all male band!


hehe
Sally



We have the 2, 3, 11, 12 on the 14' table and they get played a lot. The 14' table does not have a "hop bet" area printed on it. I suppose somebody could ask for a certain hop bet however, in my experience if it's not on the layout, nobody asks for it.

Also, I make $0 of the profits.
FleaStiff
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August 28th, 2014 at 1:51:55 PM permalink
Quote: Riva

Rather than leave it out there and have to say "no' all the time, I'll just have a new, custom layout made.

New felt is expesive. Jujst cover the hop bets with "Its For Charity" sign.

Actually I would offer the hop bets with high minimum and shaved payouts. 16 perectn house edge in the real world.... great money maker. Slow things down? Not usually.
RS
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August 28th, 2014 at 1:54:08 PM permalink
It won't slow the game down. And if, somehow, it did -- then that'd be a good thing because lots of people would be playing them.
Ayecarumba
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August 28th, 2014 at 1:55:06 PM permalink
Do you pay 30-1 or less on the 2 or 12? If so, the house edge on hops is astronomical, and should be welcomed by you. Certainly worth the exposure. I would recommend leaving it on, and buying a shovel to help move the chips back to the bank.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Riva
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August 28th, 2014 at 3:13:15 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

New felt is expesive. Jujst cover the hop bets with "Its For Charity" sign.

Actually I would offer the hop bets with high minimum and shaved payouts. 16 perectn house edge in the real world.... great money maker. Slow things down? Not usually.



I can get a new custom layout (with the school logo and shaved points) for about $300.

On our other table, the payouts on the 2 and 12 are printed into the fabric per my instructions. The 2 & 12 pays 20:1. The 3 and 11 pays 10:1.

I would do the same on the hop bets however, since the payouts are already printed in to the layout, to shave the payouts, we'd have to tape over each of the payouts and write in the shaved payouts. That will look like hell. For many years, we would put duct tape over the "don't come" block and the one roll bets. It's a real turnoff.
beachbumbabs
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August 29th, 2014 at 6:15:30 AM permalink
They make fabric paint for about $2/tube with nice thin points on the tube for good control of the paint. Get it in red or black and just paint over the bets you don't want to offer. It can be done neatly, coloring in between the lines.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
DJTeddyBear
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August 29th, 2014 at 6:28:34 AM permalink
Getting a new felt, without the Hop bets, is the way to go.

For those that say it won't slow the game, remember that the dealers are mostly novices. Finding the correct spots will slow things down. And although the math is the same as 2,3,11,12, it's different somehow. It will slow things down.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Riva
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August 29th, 2014 at 7:18:14 AM permalink
My greedy angels say offer the hop bets. My cautious angels say it will slow things down. When you only have about 7-8 hours to make money and, most dealers as well as the players are unfamiliar with this bet, I think I'll just have a new layout made exactly like our 14' table.
Ayecarumba
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August 29th, 2014 at 12:25:21 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Getting a new felt, without the Hop bets, is the way to go.

For those that say it won't slow the game, remember that the dealers are mostly novices. Finding the correct spots will slow things down. And although the math is the same as 2,3,11,12, it's different somehow. It will slow things down.



Does the game stop for an unusual amount of time when the horn hits? If the dealer's can handle that, the hops should be fine, since it is the box person's responsibility to keep them straight and arrange the pays. On average, they will be collecting 17 times for everytime there is a payout, so I don't think it is too much work compared to the potential profit. The shaved odds make the payout math easy too. I don't even want to hear the house edge on them. Player's would really feel like suckers if they knew how bad they were getting it. However, it's all for charity.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Ace2
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January 26th, 2022 at 7:09:25 PM permalink
I’ve never made a hop bet but I’m curious to know how the dealers book it.

Most tables don’t seem to have spaces on the table for hop bets so if, for example, I bet $10 hopping the 2-6, where do they put my chips? Do they mark my bet somehow or just remember it’s on 2-6?
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AlanMendelson
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January 26th, 2022 at 7:48:09 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

I’ve never made a hop bet but I’m curious to know how the dealers book it.

Most tables don’t seem to have spaces on the table for hop bets so if, for example, I bet $10 hopping the 2-6, where do they put my chips? Do they mark my bet somehow or just remember it’s on 2-6?
link to original post



In 2022, after the hop bet scandal at Bellagio, I think most casinos have changed their layouts to have the hop bets marked. I dont know of any casino today without the new layouts. Anyone know of any?
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