Going to quit

Do most casinos count odds bets for rating?

Quote: thecesspit

Blackjack with counting, Deuces wild full pay, some slots with large enough jackpots.

Is that why BJ card counters go through such large variance swings when they are playing BJ, now tell the truth, even if your counting cards it's still a negative game!

Now I happen to own a Deuces wild full pay slot machine that I bought to show my wife that's it's almost impossible to beat the slot machines! It worked like a dream, she does not play any casino games, except when I throw her the money to play and she is with an out of town guess that we have in town! When your in Vegas area you are more then welcome to come over and try to beat my Deuces wild machine! Fun to try but in all reality, just about impossible to beat, unless you get lucky.
So sorry I don't buy into either one of your examples!

One thing about living in the Las Vegas area is that there are a awful lot women that spend their time in the casinos while the husband or boyfriend is working, losing money by playing slot machines!

That slot machine buy was the best thing I ever did when we moved to the Las Vegas area, it not only showed my wife about playing slot machines, it showed my children and all of my friends that you can't beat the slot machines!

By the way she did learn about playing the so-called perfect strategy with the books we bought about playing Deuces Wild machines and she still loses play our machine. Sure there are times that she will get lucky but over all she and I are always losers on that machine.
I can see how players do get hook on the machines when they do pay off, it's exciting to hear all those coins dropping!

Quote: superrick

What embarrassing is that anybody would risk that kind of money so they could get a $15 comp!

Sorry Ahigh you know how much I hate comps, I think the worst thing anybody can do in a casino is Playing for Comps!

Would you consider a 5k loss in cash and a 12k RFBI comp a loss?

Quote: superrick

Is that why BJ card counters go through such large variance swings when they are playing BJ, now tell the truth, even if your counting cards it's still a negative game!

Incorrect, and if you don't understand why, the rest of your examples are invalid too.

Slot machines can be profitable, but the problem is that people who play'em spend too much time doing it. What the chance of hitting jackpot today? Bet max few times, loose, tell yourself, it's not my day, turn180 degrees and leave the place.

Quote: superrick

Is that why BJ card counters go through such large variance swings when they are playing BJ, now tell the truth, even if your counting cards it's still a negative game!

Now I happen to own a Deuces wild full pay slot machine that I bought to show my wife that's it's almost impossible to beat the slot machines! It worked like a dream, she does not play any casino games, except when I throw her the money to play and she is with an out of town guess that we have in town! When your in Vegas area you are more then welcome to come over and try to beat my Deuces wild machine! Fun to try but in all reality, just about impossible to beat, unless you get lucky.
So sorry I don't buy into either one of your examples!

One thing about living in the Las Vegas area is that there are a awful lot women that spend their time in the casinos while the husband or boyfriend is working, losing money by playing slot machines!

That slot machine buy was the best thing I ever did when we moved to the Las Vegas area, it not only showed my wife about playing slot machines, it showed my children and all of my friends that you can't beat the slot machines!

By the way she did learn about playing the so-called perfect strategy with the books we bought about playing Deuces Wild machines and she still loses play our machine. Sure there are times that she will get lucky but over all she and I are always losers on that machine.
I can see how players do get hook on the machines when they do pay off, it's exciting to hear all those coins dropping!

Make the denom $5 and I'll be over there to play 24 hours a day. FPDW of course. Comp me some food, room, and give me 0.5% cashback as well.

Quote: superrick

Is that why BJ card counters go through such large variance swings when they are playing BJ, now tell the truth, even if your counting cards it's still a negative game!

Now I happen to own a Deuces wild full pay slot machine that I bought to show my wife that's it's almost impossible to beat the slot machines! It worked like a dream, she does not play any casino games, except when I throw her the money to play and she is with an out of town guess that we have in town! When your in Vegas area you are more then welcome to come over and try to beat my Deuces wild machine! Fun to try but in all reality, just about impossible to beat, unless you get lucky.
So sorry I don't buy into either one of your examples!

One thing about living in the Las Vegas area is that there are a awful lot women that spend their time in the casinos while the husband or boyfriend is working, losing money by playing slot machines!

That slot machine buy was the best thing I ever did when we moved to the Las Vegas area, it not only showed my wife about playing slot machines, it showed my children and all of my friends that you can't beat the slot machines!

By the way she did learn about playing the so-called perfect strategy with the books we bought about playing Deuces Wild machines and she still loses play our machine. Sure there are times that she will get lucky but over all she and I are always losers on that machine.
I can see how players do get hook on the machines when they do pay off, it's exciting to hear all those coins dropping!

Your wife is probably not playing correct strategy. Yes, yes I know you think she is, trust me probably she is not. We have no idea known what has been done with it or what chip was put in that machine anyways. Or if its even full pay. I would be glad to take a look at it. In the short term, luck is a factor, but after many, many hands played perfectly, It will be positive for the player. If you added just one seemingly small promotion to a FPDW @ your house, you would get crushed assuming it was not gaffed.

You can claim that VP cant be beat all you want, that's easy to say. According to most experts (that would probably include our own Wizard) the casinos and manufacturers.

Maybe you can explain why they rip out any $1 and $5 FPDW almost immediately? They used to ave a fair amount of $1 denomination FPDW. Pros raped them. If they can't be beaten why take them out why are they so rare to come by? The casino could get 24/7 365 play on a $5 FPDW form people who wouldn't normally be playing. Sounds like free money for the casino, to me, under your theory.

Make it worth my time, I would be willing to make a bet on a FPDW and some other games in a casino, that you can in fact win.

how much money do you think your machine will take from someone after 1 hr of play? or out of $100

Quote: superrick

Rater then any actual bets. How about this Idea. Since you are so so very confident FPWD or other games cant be beat, book some action.

We Find a casino with a VP game and all the perks that come with it. We play it as if it is a higher denomination. For instance, what ever is won, you pay the person 20x that amount, what ever is lost, they pay you 20x that amount.

Include 20x comps or cash back as well. I bet you give up real fast, just like the casinos do.

If you really believe the machines, are as you say they are, then you will make a killing, hundreds per HR. You wont have to worry about anyone hitting and running, I would guarantee you as much action as you could afford.

You do realize that video poker has high variance? And "getting lucky" is part of playing the damn game! You expect to hit a royal flush or 4 deuces if you play enough.

I'd be glad to book some action on a FPDW play (in favor of FPDW being beatable), like what Axel posted.

I'm puzzled why they would threaten to kick you out, Ahigh. Have you done something to annoy them to make you not worth it? I know of a few players who are a--holes, but if it wasn't for their high average bet, they'd be 86'd real fast.

Quote: RS

I'm puzzled why they would threaten to kick you out, Ahigh. Have you done something to annoy them to make you not worth it? I know of a few players who are a--holes, but if it wasn't for their high average bet, they'd be 86'd real fast.

The question is what *hasn't* he done to annoy them. :P

I went about two weeks without playing last month. I started playing again about a week ago.

I've been spending more time with my wife and kids instead of gambling. I went to Arizona for some hockey games and have attended more hockey games and practice here in Vegas as well.

I still enjoy playing craps a LOT. So I don't intend to change until we get some NTGL games out into the casino. But I GUARANTEE YOU I AM GOING TO BE A FIEND once we get a machine here in Vegas -- even if it's not set up to gamble, showing off my skill is the biggest reason to play any game in a public setting with random people from the general public possibly playing or watching the play.

Ahigh,

When you play craps, what is your typical bankroll for the day? Considering craps as a -EV game, what is your winnings/losses in the last 12 months? If you're losing, do you have a good job to supp your gambling bankroll? Lastly, how do keep your woman and children from talking bad about your frequent casino visits (maybe you have a keeper!)?

Quote: Ahigh

I went about two weeks without playing last month. I started playing again about a week ago.

The funny thing about gamblers who aren't "problem gamblers" is that neither they can quit.

Quote: Ahigh

Not bad for someone who has a serious eating addiction.

Is it just me, or does the guy sitting down in the above video look like the Wizard?

Oh hey, I went back and read this whole thread.

That is a great scene from Slacker!

Quote: Ahigh

I am going to TRY to take a break from playing. Yesterday I was advised not to play and I ignored the advice and lost a large sum of money playing craps. It put me in a bad mood to lose this money even though I tried my best not to let it affect me, and I realized that I let this loss negatively affect myself and other people around me. Today, I'm still sore about this loss, and other people are not talking to me as a result of the sequence of events unfolded after this happened.

I've been playing craps every day now for over five years except when going out of town. And by every day, I typically play at multiple tables multiple times per day.

IE: I play a LOT of craps. I think the most number of simultaneous days I have actually physically been in Vegas without playing the game is MAYBE two. Usually I play at LEAST once every 8 waking hours. And frequently I play for an hour every four to five hours.

A couple of people have told me that they think I have a problem (just two people, really, but they are close to me), and so I'm going to do an experiment to see what happens when I try to quit playing cold turkey. To be clear, I'm not trying to deal with what I think is a gambling problem, just trying an experiment to see how long I can go without playing craps is all.

I have no idea how long this will last, but I will keep my status updated until the first time I play again. I'm curious who can guess how long I will last. I am going to do my best to not play as long as possible, but I have a serious craps habit, and I have no IDEA how long this will last.

I don't like any other games, but this only applies to craps, and not to other gambling. I will update if I play other games, but I'm saying now that other gambling is not the goal. It's just craps I'm going to try to quit playing for a while.

my play is similar...possibly not QUITE as extreme but you be the judge...i do keep accurate track...play this year:


the year has been a disaster

try this:

http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/ga/content/20-questions

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

There have been 7296 hours this year so far.

1688/7296 is about 23% of the entire year to date. Wow.

If I may, I did an experiment with a Hoyle Software casino suite game.

I played a lot. Sure, there were times when I won big. But overtime, I always lost. Always. It's no different in real life. You keep playing, you will lose at least some of it. Nobody is a winner every day over time. I've made a dozen trips to Biloxi and have won on maybe half of those trips. It's only my being too frugal to pay the fees on the atm that keeps the total from being more.

I get it, though. After playing for so long, nothing else really compares.

Good luck with slowing down your play. Get some exercise.

A dozen years ago, a tactic I used to get my gaming under control was to play an MMO called City of Heroes. A couple years ago, they turned the servers off, shut down the game. So, now, i go back to gamble - but not nearly as much as I used to. I exercise - and I never did that before.

I hope things work out for you.

The craps table is for sale. PM if you want it.

Quote: Ahigh

The craps table is for sale. PM if you want it.

Bummer man. I guess that means the show isn't coming back either?

Quote: Daddydoc

There have been 7296 hours this year so far.

1688/7296 is about 23% of the entire year to date. Wow.

brutally honest, yes, and i am not proud of this...consider too that there has been a hiatus: the last time i played now was oct 1...making that percentage even more extreme at that time...wow...

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

You've posted about your "tough craps" system of hyper-aggressive play: it was an interesting concept.

Obviously the Real World has not been kind.

Just wondering: assuming you still play tough craps the way it should be played, how many times do you have a good win?

Quote: Ahigh

The craps table is for sale. PM if you want it.

just curious, any particular reason why you're getting rid of it?

Quote: MrV

You've posted about your "tough craps" system of hyper-aggressive play: it was an interesting concept.

Obviously the Real World has not been kind.

Just wondering: assuming you still play tough craps the way it should be played, how many times do you have a good win?

wait.. betwthelines is the author of Tough craps?

i created a couple of threads about it in 2013:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/14646-tough-craps-best-chance-of-coming-out-ahead-long-term/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/15980-new-strategy-tough-craps-version/

it's an action junkie's dream.

and holy.. 1700 hrs at the craps table so far this year?!
a person working full time is 2000hrs/yr!

Quote: MrV

You've posted about your "tough craps" system of hyper-aggressive play: it was an interesting concept.

Obviously the Real World has not been kind.

Just wondering: assuming you still play tough craps the way it should be played, how many times do you have a good win?

Quote: 100xOdds

wait.. betwthelines is the author of Tough craps?

i created a couple of threads about it in 2013:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/14646-tough-craps-best-chance-of-coming-out-ahead-long-term/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/15980-new-strategy-tough-craps-version/

it's an action junkie's dream.

and holy.. 1700 hrs at the craps table so far this year?!
a person working full time is 2000hrs/yr!

thanks fellas, for the links! very interesting...i always have trouble finding things on the old rgc group...cool stuff..

here's the deal

there is only one known Tough Craps player in the world....in 20 years of posting this on public forums this has never been disputed (originally there were two known)...thus i refer to the Tough Craps player in the singular and indeed often do so in the third person...

i am retired so the "working hours"/year that 100x Odds mentioned is no longer as relevant as it used to be...i am embarrassed by the amount of play, yes, but <sigh>for some reason i posted it anyway...<<<more embarrassment ahead...lol>>>

100x Odds, you are SPOT ON in your analysis of the play and its sacrifice of win pct for the huge win...the Tough Craps player is losing almost all the time and on the face of it that is the reason there is only One...

BUT on the face of it is deceiving in that you do not need to play the uber-aggressive progression of the Tough Craps play in order to play "tough"...The Tough Craps player brooks no quarter, giving the house the lowest edge possible...there are 4 or 5 or maybe six places in the country that offer a free buy on the 4 & 10...when at these places the Tough Craps player makes ONLY these bets (rumor has it some places in the albuquerque area used to have a free field as well but this is nowhere to be found now)....

save for those rare free bets ideally then the toughest play is the Don't--dp&/ordc--with maximum affordable lay...if you do this EXCLUSIVELY, whether you "progress" your bets or not, you are a tough craps player...but no one known, in fact does that...

with its negative skew, however, the Don'ts are not efficient for an aggressive progression where the goal is to WIN HUGE...Don't players grind and win close to 49% of the time but rarely WIN HUGE...it is the "toughest" play...but again no one is known to play so exclusively

so, yes, the Tough Craps player does sacrifice the whatever the thousandsth of a percent better HA of the Donts for a more efficient Do betting strategy congruent with his GOALS...

Mr V, as to your question, the biggest win has been $13.8k with several others in the $7 - 8k range...i have good, accurate records going back to 2001 for "non-local" casinos and as recently as 9/15/2015, over 14 years into it, i was still ahead playing Tough.... "non local" stats are generally "per trip" rather than per session for ease of tracking....stats are kept in $100 increments and, given gamblers notorious proclivity to remember winnings but losses not so much, are rounded up or down in an extremely conservative manner, not in my favor with losses rounded up and wins rounded down...ties for example are -$50 to +$99 and a loss of $51 is reckoned as a $100 loss...current non-local casino stats are



alas stats for the local joint, kept since bank craps opened there in november 2013, are less sanguine but also a much larger sample and track hours of play...i believe that showing you two sets of stats will be most illuminating (at least i think they are)...five years and one month into it i was still ahead playing Tough....here's what the stats looked like on december 21,2018:



current stats 12 years on are:



look, i realize that it is stupid to post this stuff in front of god and everybody to begin with but i am simply TOO EMBARRASSED at least at this point to divulge the ridiculous loss total...sorry...i guess i am just stupid. period.

but notice that even with exorbitant losses the win pct is actually HIGHER than it was 7 years ago WHEN I WAS STILL AHEAD! just shows ta go yah, mustang sally, the importance of winning pct for your non-tough LAY bets! lol...note too that, given the fairly large sample the win pct is a statistically significant less than one out of three wins...

The Tough Craps player is losing almost all of the time. But this is not because he is playing tough but rather due to his win objectives and his extreme, RELENTLESS bet progression...

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

Quote: betwthelines

so, yes, the Tough Craps player does sacrifice the whatever the thousandsth of a percent better HA of the Donts for a more efficient Do betting strategy congruent with his GOALS...

That's okay, it turns out that over the typical lifespan of a craps-playing human, the difference in edge between pass and don't pass is still obscured by the variance of results. So play whatever side you want; with equivalent wagers your bankroll will never know the difference.

ooops typos on my long-winded post corrected in red


alas stats for the local joint, kept since bank craps opened there in november 2003 , are less sanguine but also a much larger sample and track hours of play...i believe that showing you two sets of stats will be most illuminating (at least i think they are)...five years and one month into it i was still ahead playing Tough....here's what the stats looked like on december 21, 2008:

12 years and losing 5 figures? [or do you really mean nothing at all by using 5 figures?]

That's hardly a horror story, if I understood it right. You could do much worse at many other hobbies/activities

Quote: odiousgambit

12 years and losing 5 figures? [or do you really mean nothing at all by using 5 figures?]

That's hardly a horror story, if I understood it right. You could do much worse at many other hobbies/activities

o, it's 5 figures all right...and not low five figures either...it's a horror story to me

have cut back on my play temporarily (haven't since oct 1) but i still plan to dig myself out with the same play that got me into this mess...

insanity right?

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

Quote: betwthelines

Quote: odiousgambit

12 years and losing 5 figures? [or do you really mean nothing at all by using 5 figures?]

That's hardly a horror story, if I understood it right. You could do much worse at many other hobbies/activities

o, it's 5 figures all right...and not low five figures either...it's a horror story to me

have cut back on my play temporarily (haven't since oct 1) but i still plan to dig myself out with the same play that got me into this mess...

insanity right?

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

yike!
maybe Tough Craps strategy is too tough?

Quote: betwthelines

o, it's 5 figures all right...and not low five figures either...it's a horror story to me

That's all that counts, and I have to admit high five figures might make a difference.

It depends on your financial situation, obviously.

A high five figure lifetime loss figure would be acceptable to many, and absolutely crippling to others.

We pick our hobbies and we pay the freight to enjoy them.

As a video poker player, I gambled a minimum of 50,000 units per week, win lose or draw. No matter what I won, and there were lots of "Royals" I was in the hole financially and spiritually. It's been a daily ritual to just NOT do it. Almost 6 months have past and I've been free of the drug to "win". One day is all you get today. Just do it and don't worry about what others say or think about your decisions. All the best.

Quote: mikeabiomed

As a video poker player, I gambled a minimum of 50,000 units per week, win lose or draw. No matter what I won, and there were lots of "Royals" I was in the hole financially and spiritually. It's been a daily ritual to just NOT do it. Almost 6 months have past and I've been free of the drug to "win". One day is all you get today. Just do it and don't worry about what others say or think about your decisions. All the best.

I liked that post.
I bumped it.
Fire me.
2F

You liked it because it the truth and contains facts that most gamblers can relate to whether they change their habits or not. Fire you?

Quote: mikeabiomed

You liked it because it the truth and contains facts that most gamblers can relate to whether they change their habits or not. Fire you?

Not sure I understand your question.
I did like the post, and I felt 'included'. The post felt sincere.
I bumped it for that reason, that reason only.
The bump was meant as a compliment.
It is so hard to be explicit to strangers over the webby.......
"fire me" was if those that encourage gambling on the 'webby' didn't like post, this is a business here right? You do understand that I assume?
Nevermind. If I was wrong, I'll try to do better, pls forgive......

Well said Two Feathers. Now I understand. Anyone on WOV should understand gambling is a choice and not a requirement to this site. You were not wrong and I applaud your motive. Thank you.

I wonder what the current thought is in the "stop gambling community" about methods / modalities to treat patients?

In other words, is it primarily twelve step like AA?

Are there any meds prescribed to stop the "craving," as for tobacco users?

It seems to me it would be difficult to develop a program that would have a high success rate.

AHIGh ' A couple of people have told me that they think I have a problem.

Those people are true friends !

Quote: MrV

I wonder what the current thought is in the "stop gambling community" about methods / modalities to treat patients?

In other words, is it primarily twelve step like AA?

Are there any meds prescribed to stop the "craving," as for tobacco users?

It seems to me it would be difficult to develop a program that would have a high success rate.

Youuuuuu might not be an AP if you spend a lot of time in these wondering s ;-)

Quote: MrV

I wonder what the current thought is in the "stop gambling community" about methods / modalities to treat patients?

In other words, is it primarily twelve step like AA?

Are there any meds prescribed to stop the "craving," as for tobacco users?

It seems to me it would be difficult to develop a program that would have a high success rate.

fwiw gamblers anonymous is along the lines of AA

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p