dont pass odds

i have a question about odds placing on dont come. what is the proper way to place the odds on the table for dont pass, seems every time i puy them down, the table people will arrange them some other way. if i put them on my right side they put them on the left, if i put them on the left side of my bet they put them on right, What gives, is there a specific way to lay the odds next to yor bet?

Your flat bet should be between the stick person and your odds.

I usually bet table minimum + odds on the DP.

$5 on the line, point established, $30 in odds heeled - placed just barely on the edge of the chip on the line all in one neat stack.

Knowing when to heel or bridge your chips is part of craps etiquette.

I am not sure which side is preferred. I tend to set up on the end of the table to the right of the stick whenever possible, position 14 or so, and heel my odds on the left of my line wager (away from the bank/dealer) and have never had the dealer ask me to re-position my bet.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/14712-bridging-vs-heeling-your-odds-on-the-dont/

I'd love to see Ahigh or someone put up a Youtube video explaining the whole bridge/heel and which side to use in detail.

Quote: psycho8380

i have a question about odds placing on dont come. what is the proper way to place the odds on the table for dont pass,?

For the DC, you don't have to worry. You're not allowed to position the odds. As don't come players tend to gravitate next to the dealer because of ease and convention, you can put down whatever permitted odds chips you want on the apron near the DC box. The dealer will move them and/or let you know if that's all right with him/her.

For the don't pass, the correct position for the don't pass bet is directly in front of you. If you are on the stick man's right side, your lay odds go on the right. If you are on the stick man's left side, your odds go on the left. The dealer will pay lay odds bets starting with the closest to him. They pay the lay odds bet first and the don't pass bet second when they are set up properly.

The only time that you would stack it on the wrong side would be if there is more than one person playing the don't pass on your side of the table and you're not the first person to do a lay odds bet.

In that case, you follow the convention of the other players for consistency to prevent your bet from being confused with the person next to you if they take their bet away.

You generally bridge stack when the lay odds and the don't pass bet both win the same amount of money.

The exception would be if you have a $6 don't pass and a $9 lay odds on a five or a nine. You can actually bridge stack this, but a dealer will very likely change it to a heel stack. It can be comical.

Quote: Ahigh

The exception would be if you have a $6 don't pass and a $9 lay odds on a four or a nine. You can actually bridge stack this, but a dealer will very likely change it to a heel stack. It can be comical.

I'm guessing that you meant 5 or 9, because $9 lay odds on a 4 will result in a $4 or $4.50 payoff (depending on breakage).

Quote: SGIT

I'm guessing that you meant 5 or 9, because $9 lay odds on a 4 will result in a $4 or $4.50 payoff (depending on breakage).

Yes, and there are more cases where you win the same amount, but where, because there are different colored chips involved, most dealers will expect the lay odds to be a heel stack instead of a bridge stack.

I generally like to bridge stack anything that qualifies as possible just to see if the dealer will heel stack it anyway, and then ask them why it can't be bridged stack if I am winning the same amount from the lay odds as the flat bet.

But always heel stack if you have multiple chip colors on the don't pass and are not a trouble maker like me.

It all depends on payouts. if the dealer can simply cut into the bridge to pay then that is whatw ill happen but if the dealer cannot cut into the bridge, in other words the payout amount is not equal to two times the "bottom" of the bridge, then the dealer will heel the odds in such a way that he and the boxman can clearly see the amount of odds layed.

The guys who have previously answered are mostly correct.

For some reason I do a lot better when I bet a big flat bet than betting the minimum with odds. For example yesterday I bet $10 and did 5x odds and I lost $400. It especially hurt when the shooter made back to back 10's and I lost $100 each time. Today I just bet $50 on the don't pass with no odds and I made $800.

Quote: guitarmandp

For some reason I do a lot better when I bet a big flat bet than betting the minimum with odds. For example yesterday I bet $10 and did 5x odds and I lost $400. It especially hurt when the shooter made back to back 10's and I lost $100 each time. Today I just bet $50 on the don't pass with no odds and I made $800.

Mathematically, that's a terrible idea.

The risk of 7/11 on the come out roll is too great.

Quote: TerribleTom

Mathematically, that's a terrible idea.

The risk of 7/11 on the come out roll is too great.

10 was the point twice in a row on Wednesday and both times I lost. Mathematically even though I would only win half, my chances of winning were two to one which means I should have been the odds on the favorite to win, but it doesn't always work out that way. It got so bad on Wednesday that I stopped laying any odds on 4's and 10's.

I don't care what the book says, I do better when I have a $50 or $75 flat bet than when I bet $10 and lay 5x odds. I find that it's very hard to catch up after a hot roll where back to back shooters make 3 points when you are only getting paid half on 4's and 10's.

Quote: TerribleTom

Mathematically, that's a terrible idea.

The risk of 7/11 on the come out roll is too great.

Mathematically, marriage is worse.

The difference is $0.02 per roll per $5 more on the don't. So $10 on the don't costs $0.04 per roll, and $50 on the don't costs $0.20 per roll on average.

If you want to earn comps, and the casino doesn't comp your odds, you can shave 30% off the cost so you're looking at something more like $0.13 per roll after comps.

I'm not trying to say flat betting is better, it's not. But focus on the dollar costs, not the percentage differences of the percentages. If you're okay paying $20/hour on average to gamble $50 don't flats, do it. Just because you can gamble the same amount for $4/hour doesn't make you that much more likely to win. It just means you'll have an extra $16 (on average) at the end of the hour when you do. That's all.

Quote: Ahigh

Mathematically, marriage is worse.

The difference is $0.02 per roll per $5 more on the don't. So $10 on the don't costs $0.04 per roll, and $50 on the don't costs $0.20 per roll on average.

If you want to earn comps, and the casino doesn't comp your odds, you can shave 30% off the cost so you're looking at something more like $0.13 per roll after comps.

I'm not trying to say flat betting is better, it's not. But focus on the dollar costs, not the percentage differences of the percentages. If you're okay paying $20/hour on average to gamble $50 don't flats, do it. Just because you can gamble the same amount for $4/hour doesn't make you that much more likely to win. It just means you'll have an extra $16 (on average) at the end of the hour when you do. That's all.

All I know is I do better when I put down big flat bets then when I bet the minimum and lay 5x odds. I guess what works for me might not work for somebody else, and your .02 per roll analysis is over like 4 million rolls. I made a $3,000 profit in 2013 and I'm up for 2014 betting the way I bet. Now $3,000 is nothing to brag about and it's not going to make me quit my day job, but I didn't loose .20 per roll like your suggesting.

Quote: guitarmandp

All I know is I do better when I put down big flat bets then when I bet the minimum and lay 5x odds. I guess what works for me might not work for somebody else, and your .02 per roll analysis is over like 4 million rolls. I made a $3,000 profit in 2013 and I'm up for 2014 betting the way I bet. Now $3,000 is nothing to brag about and it's not going to make me quit my day job, but I didn't loose .20 per roll like your suggesting.

You lost the chance to win half your bet when the twelve rolled on the initial roll, and every other result was fair. Did you count how many times the 12 rolled on the initial roll? Maybe never! It happens less than once per hour on average. If you only played a couple hours, you haven't played long enough for it to matter.

The lay odds bet is fair. The don't pass and don't come have an edge.

The edge is not apparent until you get enough events.

Right now the volatility is more apparent than the edge.

Bet this way frequently enough and at the same bet denomination and that will definitely change EVENTUALLY.

That's all there is to it given random dice results.

Make a stack of half your bet amount every time the 12 rolls and you get a push on the first roll of a don't. That's your edge stack -- or your cost to play.

I don't play DP very often, but I wrote about it a couple of months ago, and I have arrived at the same decision as guitar.

I'd rather play a big DP bet with no odds, then have to lay more to win less, even though I know the odds is a 0% edge bet. As I wrote before, I'll take my chances with being a 3:8 underdog on one Come Out roll, but once past that, then I have a good advantage of my DP bet of 6:5, or 3:2, or 2:1.

So, after the CO roll, on a $70 DP bet, and the requisite 7 out, I am getting paid $70, instead of the $60 (6/8), or $50 (5/9), or $40 (4/10), I would have been paid for a $10 DP with $60 in odds.
This is especially relevant on a table where a larger number of points seem to be the 4 or 10. The fact that I will be getting paid 1:1 on a bet where I am a 2:1 favorite is huge.

The math may not say this is a smart way to play, but like guitar, the few times I have played this way it has been profitable for me. Perhaps it would have worked out too by laying odds, but when I had been laying odds before, I was losing. Since I am 95% of the time a Right side bettor, I seriously doubt I will ever make more than a few hundred DP bets in my lifetime, so how this play works out in the long run versus laying odds, is not of concern to me. Beating the skew for a few sessions is all I need to make this the more profitable way for me to play.

Funny, when I go down in flames while playing the DP it's rarely to shooters hitting a ton of points - it's usually shooters hitting a ton of come out rolls and occasional points.

In part because I will sometimes back off if a shooter makes multiple points and wait for the dice to pass to another shooter.

Quote: TerribleTom

Funny, when I go down in flames while playing the DP it's rarely to shooters hitting a ton of points - it's usually shooters hitting a ton of come out rolls and occasional points.

In part because I will sometimes back off if a shooter makes multiple points and wait for the dice to pass to another shooter.

That is interesting. I have also seen plenty of Don'ts getting killed on the CO 7s, but my DP experience hasn't been too bad with CO winners. I must be managing to pick the right times to play the dark side.

Just saw somebody at the high roller craps table have $300 on the don't pass, they rolled a 4 and he put $3,000 down as odds . Shooter immediately made the 4! That's a lot of money to risk to win half!

Edit: I think on the days where I bet the minimum and lay odds, I'm only going to lay on the 5, 6, 8, and 9 and stay away from 4 & 10; some of my biggest losses have been laying the 4 and 10 thinking it's an easy win

Quote: guitarmandp

Edit: I think on the days where I bet the minimum and lay odds, I'm only going to lay on the 5, 6, 8, and 9 and stay away from 4 & 10; some of my biggest losses have been laying the 4 and 10 thinking it's an easy win

Some of my biggest wins came from Taking the Odds on the 4/10 thinking I'd lose.

As I understand it, the dealer, in paying your bets, should come to the DontPass Odds Bet before the Flat bet...is this correct?

I'm getting off subject but everybody's jaw dropped last night when somebody put 5 purple chips ($2,500) on the field and they rolled aces giving the better a $5,000 payout