Losing your ass on a cold table playing the Don't pass
The table eventually went from being full to only having 2 or 3 people on it. Any don't players ever experience something like this?
Quote: RSDid you not lay odds?
I'm wondering the same thing. I will admit I seem to care about the line bet losses more playing darkside. But for the most part, playing craps, I don't much care about what happens on the line if I can place or lay decent odds.
More than once. Chalk it up to proving to the do players that you're not playing on the house's side.Quote: guitarmandp"I'd get excited when they roll a 2 or 3 thinking (finally a win for me), only to have the shooter immediately follow it up with another 7 or 11. . . . Any don't players ever experience something like this?
Darth
It sucks anytime you lose, but taking a real bath happens alot more than some
people think. The reason for that is brain lock.
Craps brain lock is easy to see, some guy sits home on some forum and decides the
way to play even before he gets to the table, pays no attention to what is happening at
the table and proceeds to play the set way he had fixed in his mind before he got there.
I have seen across betters continue a full bet for 5,6,7,8 people in a row that 7 out,
then loses it all gets pissed and goes home. Or dont players continue a dont bet
for 40 minute rolls, even though the only bet he can win at that point is the last one.
What baffles the snarf out of me is everyone takes hours to determine what to do at
their home tables, or hours on here thinking about bets and odds and when they get to
a table they forget to think altogether, brain lock.
If you want to survive as a gambler, thinking has to start when you walk in a casino,
not stop.
dicesetter
But I also have to agree with Dicesetter as well. Don't get Locked in to a predetermined method of play. Remember the Math, and play the table.. And if that doesn't work, just take two steps back, left face and march to eat breakfast.... Don't get beat up being frustrated with a table you know you should be winning on. Just re-group
Just Remember : Always play strictly the 6 and 8 by “Up and Pull” after a regression.
Quote: AhighThis guy is a riot. I found it very entertaining that he's still posting on his message board.
Some panicked middle aged guy trying to make the mortgage payment.
Quote: darthvaderPoint-7 kills everybody other than those playing DP, which I don't do because of the potential evil stares.
I never knew that about you. Are you seriously concerned about the evil stares? This is how I play, plus full odds and just keep my head down. It may not be fun for others, but I enjoy it and feel like "f" them if they dont like how I play.
Quote: RS"Chart" a table?
John Patrick preaches caution, restraint, and loss avoidance.
Patrick advises not to play BJ anymore, as the casinos have made it a losing proposition.
He advises not to bet PL or to make come bets.
He prefers to bet the don'ts, and likes to hedge his bets.
His primary focus is on sports betting.
Oh, and he isn't middle-aged, he's 80 or so and lives in Lutz, Fla. now, having made the southern migration from NJ.
His views are controversial to many.
Quote: MrVJohn Patrick preaches caution, restraint, and loss avoidance.
Patrick advises not to play BJ anymore, as the casinos have made it a losing proposition.
He advises not to bet PL or to make come bets.
He prefers to bet the don'ts, and likes to hedge his bets.
His primary focus is on sports betting.
Oh, and he isn't middle-aged, he's 80 or so and lives in Lutz, Fla. now, having made the southern migration from NJ.
His views are controversial to many.
as much as he is hated it seems like he has made a pretty good life for himself.
Quote: GWAEas much as he is hated it seems like he has made a pretty good life for himself.
Yeah, selling scam systems to idiots is very profitable.
Quote: BozI never knew that about you. Are you seriously concerned about the evil stares? This is how I play, plus full odds and just keep my head down. It may not be fun for others, but I enjoy it and feel like "f" them if they dont like how I play.
I respect that opinion. However, I also respect that some light side players don't like to have a dark player at their table. By playing DC instead of DP, I am more of a gray player. I get the game I want, and most don't understand or care about my DC. So everybody "wins."
Darth
I play pretty similar... On a busy table, Ill stand in the corner closest to the dealer and collect....
Quote: darthvaderPoint-7 kills everybody other than those playing DP, which I don't do because of the potential evil stares.
I'm at the casino to have some fun and hopefully make a little money, not friends.
I could care less if they stare at me or as pissed I'm betting dark side. If they don't want me to win, do a better job shooting the dice.
The only don't players I've ever seen piss people off were some obnoxious ones loudly celebrating every time the 7 came out. They were drunk idiots.
Quote: SACRI'm at the casino to have some fun and hopefully make a little money, not friends.
I could care less if they stare at me or as pissed I'm betting dark side. If they don't want me to win, do a better job shooting the dice.
The only don't players I've ever seen piss people off were some obnoxious ones loudly celebrating every time the 7 came out. They were drunk idiots.
lol how do you do a better job shooting the dice?
I also have never seen people get mad at a dark side shooter.
Ummmmm, take my course for $XX,XXX.XX.Quote: GWAEHow do you do a better job shooting the dice?
I have. Plenty of times, both spoken out loud and silently. Obstreperous craps players are some of the biggest boors in a casino.Quote: GWAEI also have never seen people get mad at a dark side shooter.
Quote: GWAElol how do you do a better job shooting the dice?
I also have never seen people get mad at a dark side shooter.
On my last NCL cruise I was shooting from the Don't, alone, late at night. Two guys joined the table, and when the dice came out to me I pointed out to them that I was shooting from the Don't. When I 7'd out a few throws later, they both got pissed at me. I said, "I told you I was shooting from the Don't, you should have listened."
When I am playing Right side, and another player shoots from the Don't, I will usually bet the Don't with them. That way there won't be any hard feelings, unless the shooter makes the point of course. ;-)
Quote: TheWolf713@Darthvader
I play pretty similar... On a busy table, Ill stand in the corner closest to the dealer and collect....
Usually works for me too. Usually. Last trip, however, was way too many Point-7s.
Darth
Quote: TheWolf713What was your bankroll for that session? Sevens are going to come... If you feel nervous about it, just hop all of the sevens every now and then.. 3-6 bucks covers whatever the table minimum is. And what you lose on the hops it can be easily regained with your odds.... also as one person said above, sometimes just skip the Come out and wait to start with the DC... There's nothing worse than a sharpshooting 7-11 come-out guy. They throw 7-11 all day on the comeout and immediately go out.... But these guys are gold to a DP guy. Just come in with the AMMO (bankroll), and stand firm.
But I also have to agree with Dicesetter as well. Don't get Locked in to a predetermined method of play. Remember the Math, and play the table.. And if that doesn't work, just take two steps back, left face and march to eat breakfast.... Don't get beat up being frustrated with a table you know you should be winning on. Just re-group
I have my own system that I stick to. Part of my system is that I hop the 7's for $3 and bet $30 so when somebody rolls a 7 I loose money. I like to hop the 7's to help offset some of the painful come out rolls where multiple 7's are rolled, however I try to keep it at 10% or less of my bet because otherwise you are giving up too much money. I don't mind an occasional 7, what I can't stand is a roll where they roll multiple 7's and 11's. Today there was a come out roll that last 8 or 9 shots, maybe the longest come out roll I have ever seen. 7, 3, 11, 7, 7, 7, 7, 2, 3. I could be off on a number or two but I remember it was a natural, craps, 5 naturals in a row, craps twice in a row. Then they hit a 9 and went right out. Rolls like that are extremely frustrating. Last week I was on a come out roll where they rolled 4 yo's in a row although I didn't get killed on that roll. After the 3rd 11, I bet a $5 11 just to stop it, and it hit again paying me $75 but I lost my $30 don't pass bet.
I also only lay odds on 6 or 8, because even though the odds bet is the best bet in the house, I find that the consequences of having a hot shooter making all kinds of points outweighs the reward of betting $50 to win $25;
If I'm on the passline I do lay odds unless I'm running out of money, but it's very rare that I play the passline.
Quote: guitarmandpI have my own system that I stick to.
My suggestion is to lay the free odds, you will quit caring about what happens on the line [if the odds are decent enough]. Cut down on your total action.
Quote: odiousgambitMy suggestion is to lay the free odds, you will quit caring about what happens on the line [if the odds are decent enough]. Cut down on your total action.
We will have to agree to disagree, besides the free odds bet the don't pass is the best bet on the tables. So I see nothing wrong with putting a lot of money on the donts.
Quote: guitarmandpAfter the 3rd 11, I bet a $5 11 just to stop it, and it hit again paying me $75.
With that attitude, how do you ever win?
Quote: NokTangWith that attitude, how do you ever win?
I won $415 today, so I guess it is possible for me to win.
Quote: NokTangWith that attitude, how do you ever win?
Last night I bought in for $500 and cashed out with $597. I was at the seven star diamond table. The guy next to me bought the 4, 5, 9, and 10 for $100 a pop and had a $600 place bet on the 6 and a $600 place bet on the 8. He had a $25 passline bet and put $500 behind it. Oh yeah he also had a $25 fire bet. When I got to the table his entire trey was completely covered in purple and black. We both cashed out an hour later. He cashed out with about $225 (at one point with all the purple and black he had he had to have had at least $15,000). I started with $500 and only bet the don't pass for a quarter. I bet $25 on the don't pass on each shooter, and laid the 4 for $51 on the come out roll. I would have won $250, but the first 3 shooters all rolled 4's as their first point which set me back $153. Anyways I ended up winning $97 and I'm not sure what the guy next to me started with but judging by all the purple and black in has rack when I got there, I find it difficult to believe he started with $225.
Moral of the story is that I simply bet the don't pass and did a $51 lay on the 4 to cover my bet on the come out roll and I beat the guy that was doing all of the good bets such as passline + odds, buying the 4 and 10, etc... So I guess it is possible for me to win.
As a function of your loss tolerance, when your win target is a smaller percentage of your loss tolerance, your ability to win increases accordingly. The same can be said for your willingness to play a fewer number of total bets.
Quote: mdsHow does that happen?
Variance.
Darth
I did get to table max, on a place bet, once. That was cool.
Quote: RSPlayed a little dice the other night. Maybe it's my clouded memory, but I swear I lost close to 1/2, if not more, of my no-4 / no-10's. Fortunately I won a lot of my no5,6,8,9's and ended up a winning session.
I did get to table max, on a place bet, once. That was cool.
If you bet no 4 and no 10 at the same time and a 7 hits, are you counting that as 2 wins or 1?
If you are counting it as 1 win, then winning about half is right on expectation.
Quote: AhighI like to win more frequently myself. I am often happy with a $30 win just to enable me to win more frequently, I settle for a smaller win.
My feelings as well, when I play alone. I sometimes give back a moderate win because I linger too long when playing with friends. How's that for lame: blaming some losing sessions on peer pressure!
Quote: darthvaderOne of the reasons I play the DC instead of the DP. However, even that doesn't guarantee that your line bets won't lose. On my most recent trip, there was a plethora of point-7, point-7, knocking off my DC bets. Hardly ever got up against the point. I switched tables, I switched casinos, same thing kept happening. Very uncommon to have happen, but sucks when it does.
Darth
Darth VAdar... try this to get your DC out to a box #...
Avoidance of the Point 7 or Yo after the point established, doing a doey / dont of the point say of $10/$10 and make (your unit/money) on the DC after the point. Let the Yo and 2,3 wash out. You have 3 ways for 2 or 3 and 2 ways for a Yo, so you have an edge there of 3 to 2 advantage. Once point box # out, say its the 9 and your goal is to make a $25 WIN. You lay $45 against the point and put a $25 DC bet in the DC box. At this point you DC is protected vs a Yo with the offset of 2,3 craps. Your DC is protected vs the Point 7 as you now using the house to nuetralize your exposure to a PSO with a Lay of the point until a box # is thrown. Say a 5 is thrown. Your DC goes to the 5. You now remove your Lay of point of $45 and let the doey / dont P/DP wash out.
Your DC had full protection to get to a number. you now are on the DC 5 and have 6 ways for a 7 and 4 ways for a 5. so a 3 to 2 edge on your DC getting paid. You have a 3 to 2 edge now that a 7 shows before a 5 again.
There's always a downside to every good strategy right. So worse case senario is your your Lay on the point to get your DC up to a number has a 2 to 1 / 3 to 2 or 6 to 5 edge to be successful for a wash right? So if shooter was to make his point with BTB 9's, you lose your Lay on the point, (in this case $45) and now have a $25 bet on you DC 9 bet. There is also a possibility the 9 gets hit again before a 7 shows. But whats great about a DC box # is if shooter hits point, the game slows down a bit as they make payouts and a very strong possibility a C.O 7 rolls and you get your WIN on DC. This is a good time to Lay that DC# as well for the C.O. roll. And if you did lose the point # to a BTB 9, then lay the DC 9 for $60 to win $40 for free with no VIG as your DC is a strong bet for a CO7 to get paid your $25 unit flat bet and get $40 odds from you $60 lay of DC at 3 to 2 odds. Once point is set, remove your lay bet and grind back your DP lay loss earlier...
Be aware of 'SIGNS' / Trends that are on table of a 7 hitting next roll, and if you see them, put back your lay of $60 for 1 roll. This is a very smart way to play when your waiting for the table to turn. Use the three sevens or more last 12 rolls as a sign to get DC up to a number.
hope this helps
VDC
VDC
Quote: VegasDiceControllerDarth VAdar... try this to get your DC out to a box #...
Avoidance of the Point 7 or Yo after the point established, doing a doey / dont of the point say of $10/$10 and make (your unit/money) on the DC after the point. Let the Yo and 2,3 wash out. You have 3 ways for 2 or 3 and 2 ways for a Yo, so you have an edge there of 3 to 2 advantage. Once point box # out, say its the 9 and your goal is to make a $25 WIN. You lay $45 against the point and put a $25 DC bet in the DC box. At this point you DC is protected vs a Yo with the offset of 2,3 craps. Your DC is protected vs the Point 7 as you now using the house to nuetralize your exposure to a PSO with a Lay of the point until a box # is thrown. Say a 5 is thrown. Your DC goes to the 5. You now remove your Lay of point of $45 and let the doey / dont P/DP wash out.
Your DC had full protection to get to a number. you now are on the DC 5 and have 6 ways for a 7 and 4 ways for a 5. so a 3 to 2 edge on your DC getting paid. You have a 3 to 2 edge now that a 7 shows before a 5 again. This is one way for you to achieve a loss on your DC bet....
There's always a downside to every good strategy right. So worse case senario is your your Lay on the point to get your DC up to a number has a 2 to 1 / 3 to 2 or 6 to 5 edge to be successful for a wash right? So if shooter was to make his point with BTB 9's, you lose your Lay on the point, (in this case $45) and now have a $25 bet on you DC 9 bet. There is also a possibility the 9 gets hit again before a 7 shows. But whats great about a DC box # is if shooter hits point, the game slows down a bit as they make payouts and a very strong possibility a C.O 7 rolls and you get your WIN on DC. This is a good time to Lay that DC# as well for the C.O. roll. And if you did lose the point # to a BTB 9, then lay the DC 9 for $60 to win $40 for free with no VIG as your DC 5 is a strong bet for a CO7 to get paid your $25 unit flat bet and get $40 odds from you $60 lay of DC at 3 to 2 odds. Once point is set, remove your lay bet and grind back your DP lay loss earlier...
Be aware of 'SIGNS' / Trends that are on table of a 7 hitting next roll, and if you see them, put back your lay of $60 for 1 roll. This is a very smart way to play when your waiting for the table to turn. Use the three sevens or more last 12 rolls as a sign to get DC up to a number.
hope this helps
VDC
VDC
Are you serious?
Quote: VegasDiceControllerBe aware of 'SIGNS' / Trends ... hope this helps
It DOES help because at first your suggestions seemed like total BS but when you got to this part I knew for sure "great advice this guy just wants to help for sure!"
Now I want to find out what those signs and trends are! And here is Mr. Helpful!
Another strong play i use. If I am on the Don't side and trying to get up a DC to a BOX and can't. One 'Sign/ Trigger, I use is if i see a PSO at any time during the roll ( this could be 15 rolls into a hand..ie.9,8,8,6,5,2,8,5,9 4,7out) You will see a lot of times a PSO follow this. Then when it starts it catches like wildfire and it seems you just can't get a DC up to a number....
When i see '1' PSO, and again it can be during a roll to end a shooter roll as in example above. If I am playing a DC bet, then instead of my doey/dont/lay the point and get a DC up then remove my Lay....once i see a PSO be it to end the roll or just a regular shooters PSO, I do NOT make a DC bet. I lay the point and wait for the Next roll (the 2nd roll overall) DC to have survived the PSO. When i have a survival, I go back to following the doey/dont/lay the point for 1 roll and make a DC to get up to a box #. If i have another DC loss to a PSO after i had a survival, i go back to the Lay of point and no DC until i had 2 surveils of a PSO.
You are basically attempting to make your WIN on the 2nd # thrown. So if i am playing the Don't side for whatever reason....and I have a form of a 2,3,11,7,12, as my FIRST number rolled, I do NOT make a DC bet, instead the sign/trigger is that the DC won't survive, so make your NUT on the Lay of the Point instead...Until a DC survives a PSO.
Track some tables and you will see if this works for you...Put your roll data in a post...
Hope this Helps clarify
VDC
