laying

say im in a casino playing on a five dollar table. i place the 6 and 8 for 6 dollars each, and want to lay the 4 and 10, what is the correct amount to lay to have the guy give me an easy payout, or an even payout. just learning the dont side.

It is my understanding that at most places, if not all of them, the commission is pre-paid and based on the win. So, to avoid change, the smallest possible bet would be $41 to win $20.

Tell the dealer you want to lay the 4 for $10. This is the minimum you can bet (on a $5 table). You will either have to give up 5% ($1) vig up front or they will take it from the payoff. The actual vig is $0.25, but they round up and make you pay $1. The minimum you want to bet is $40 to win $20, where vig is $1.

If you lay $50 to win $25, the vig is still $1, so you are slightly decreasing the edge (vig) in doing so. If you lay 60, vig will be $2. Don't do that. The next best is to lay $100 to win $50, the vig will be $2.

Some places do not charge vig up front, but most do. The Palms charges after win

Quote: Wizard

It is my understanding that at most places, if not all of them, the commission is pre-paid and based on the win. So, to avoid change, the smallest possible bet would be $41 to win $20.

Really? My friend plays no-4/no-10 all the time and it is never pre-payed. He usually bets $50 to win $24 (these places also let you buy the 4 or 10 for $25 with a $1 commission on wins).

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Really? My friend plays no-4/no-10 all the time and it is never pre-payed. He usually bets $50 to win $24 (these places also let you buy the 4 or 10 for $25 with a $1 commission on wins).

Yup.
General convention nowadays is to subtract the vig on a win, not pre-pay it. Always dealt it that way.
Also, all 4 & 10 at $10 and over is auto 19:10 payout, all lower wins (2 * bet)-$1, it's all vig paid on win from the winnings.

Quote: Paigowdan

Yup.
General convention nowadays is to subtract the vig on a win, not pre-pay it. Always dealt it that way.
Also, all 4 & 10 at $10 and over is auto 19:10 payout, all lower wins (2 * bet)-$1, it's all vig paid on win from the winnings.

Actually, many places have the auto buy set at 10 or 25 (meaning pay after win). Bets below that level are paid 9:5. If a player makes an $8 bet on the 4, the payout is $14 (5 pays 9, 3 pays 5.40), not $15 (8*2-1).

Quote: Wizard

It is my understanding that at most places, if not all of them, the commission is pre-paid and based on the win. So, to avoid change, the smallest possible bet would be $41 to win $20.

I have played the lay in many big name casinos in Vegas (Wynn, Belagio, Cesar's, Mirage, etc) and they all charge vig up front like the Wizard says.

Always feel free to ask the dealers, it is their job to answer all questions and it is YOUR money that you are playing with.

If you are at a five dollar table you may not be at the "swankiest" place... so it will probably work out that you get dinged for the commission only on the win. If you go to the swanky strip places, you will probably pay the commission up front and get it back if the lay bet goes down. It varies.

I think Sams Town used to offer some minor sweetener on laying the four and ten but I don't recall the details and its not worth going there just for whatever sweetener it was. VegasMadeEasy had the details but that site is not really kept up to date too well, for instance I think Gold Coast closed, yet VME still recommends it for combining the buy the 4 and 10. They also recommend Texas Stations for offering some sort of sweetener on this bet. The info is way too old to be reliable though.

Quote: slackyhacky

I have played the lay in many big name casinos in Vegas (Wynn, Belagio, Cesar's, Mirage, etc) and they all charge vig up front like the Wizard says.

Well then you should try playing at some other places :)

I have played it at the MGM Grand and they charge it on wins only. $50 to win $24.