Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
• Posts: 12553
August 13th, 2013 at 2:44:07 AM permalink
Quote: CrazyCanuck

This is not so much a partial win as it is a single small win not making up for many other losses you experience on a particular spin. If a player bets 30 lines x 5 credits a line their total bet is 150 but more accurately they have 30-5 credit wagers, if 29 wagers lose and 1 wager wins 45 credits then the players net result that roll is 150-45 = 105 credit loss. When added together it’s a partial win but when seen as separate bets its 1 win with 29 losses. This is the same as having multiple passline/come bets and a new come bet and a 7 coming. Even though the player lost (say) \$250 and only won \$25 on the last come bet the last come bet was still a “full win”, it’s only when combined with all the other bets that a new loss occurs.

I would say that your position is largely correct, but that it's kind of splitting hairs at that point. If those hairs are to be split, then I would tend to disagree somewhat with the Craps analogy because those are completely separate (i.e. not required) bets that just happen to get resolved at the same time with one roll of the dice.

Ultimately, with those slot machines in which you can specifically select how many lines and credits you wish to bet per line, then I would tend to agree with the above statement. However, many slot machines are such that they allow you to choose between betting certain fixed amounts. For example, a \$0.01/Denom Quick Hits Platinum machine will allow you to bet either 30, 60, 90, 120 or 150 credits. In the case of a machine such as that, then I tend to agree more with what I had said about not winning anything overall because you must bet x amount of lines.
Vultures can't be choosers.
CrazyCanuck
Joined: Apr 16, 2011
• Posts: 10
August 13th, 2013 at 8:24:02 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I would say that your position is largely correct, but that it's kind of splitting hairs at that point. If those hairs are to be split, then I would tend to disagree somewhat with the Craps analogy because those are completely separate (i.e. not required) bets that just happen to get resolved at the same time with one roll of the dice.

Ultimately, with those slot machines in which you can specifically select how many lines and credits you wish to bet per line, then I would tend to agree with the above statement. However, many slot machines are such that they allow you to choose between betting certain fixed amounts. For example, a \$0.01/Denom Quick Hits Platinum machine will allow you to bet either 30, 60, 90, 120 or 150 credits. In the case of a machine such as that, then I tend to agree more with what I had said about not winning anything overall because you must bet x amount of lines.

Good points. Admittedly I have extremely limited experiences with slot machines. The few I have seen you can select between 1, 3, 5, 20 etc. lines and then 1, 5, 20 etc. credits. I suppose if you are forced to bet say a minimum of 60 credits and can win a bet of 20 credits then it would be best defined as a “partial win” (optimist) or “partial loss” (pessimist). Such an outcome is not really possible in a table game, in fact I can’t think of a single bet that may result in a “partial loss” in table games except maybe surrender, which could be considered a partial loss.
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
• Posts: 12553
August 13th, 2013 at 11:30:47 AM permalink
Quote: CrazyCanuck

Good points. Admittedly I have extremely limited experiences with slot machines. The few I have seen you can select between 1, 3, 5, 20 etc. lines and then 1, 5, 20 etc. credits. I suppose if you are forced to bet say a minimum of 60 credits and can win a bet of 20 credits then it would be best defined as a “partial win” (optimist) or “partial loss” (pessimist). Such an outcome is not really possible in a table game, in fact I can’t think of a single bet that may result in a “partial loss” in table games except maybe surrender, which could be considered a partial loss.

I tend to take the pessimistic view, a, "Win," is when the amount of money returned exceeds the amount of money bet. I can't think of such a table game, either, but I wouldn't consider a surrender a loss because the player is giving up. (i.e. the player did not lose at the time the decision is made and could still win)
Vultures can't be choosers.
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
• Posts: 1930
August 13th, 2013 at 11:40:25 AM permalink
Ultimate Texas Hold'em can have partial losses when the dealer beats you, but you get your Ante back because he doesn't have a pair or better.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
wudged
Joined: Aug 7, 2013
• Posts: 998
August 18th, 2013 at 5:31:16 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I tend to take the pessimistic view, a, "Win," is when the amount of money returned exceeds the amount of money bet. I can't think of such a table game, either, but I wouldn't consider a surrender a loss because the player is giving up. (i.e. the player did not lose at the time the decision is made and could still win)

How about the roulette "en prison" rule?
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
• Posts: 12553
August 19th, 2013 at 6:44:47 AM permalink
You either surrender half or imprison it with the hopes of winning it back, either way, I'd construe the initial bet as a loss...regardless of the result of the second.
Vultures can't be choosers.
mickeycrimm
Joined: Jul 13, 2013
• Posts: 2299
August 19th, 2013 at 6:59:29 AM permalink
In the dice game, four-five-six, played with three dice, there are 216 possible combinations. By the math only 108 combinations are action. The rest were called "no action." The action rolls were 4-5-6 or 1-2-3, three of a kind, or any pair. The rest of the combinations, rolls like 1-5-6, 2-3-5, etc. were called "no action." Four-five-six was a bigtime gambling game during the pipeline days in Alaska. And I wish I knew then what I know now about the mathematics of dice throws now.
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
August 19th, 2013 at 8:44:13 AM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

In the dice game, four-five-six, played with three dice, there are 216 possible combinations. By the math only 108 combinations are action. The rest were called "no action." The action rolls were 4-5-6 or 1-2-3, three of a kind, or any pair. The rest of the combinations, rolls like 1-5-6, 2-3-5, etc. were called "no action." Four-five-six was a bigtime gambling game during the pipeline days in Alaska. And I wish I knew then what I know now about the mathematics of dice throws now.

It seems that versions of this game pop up at G2E every few years, often called "cee-lo" or some variant. I've done several math reports for clients on different versions. One fellow even claimed to have a patent on it, but cee-lo actually has its roots in an ancient Chinese dice game named "sz' 'ng luk" (literally, "four, five, six," which is where the English name came from).
http://gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/Archives/Culin/Dice1893/szngluk.html
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
wudged
Joined: Aug 7, 2013
• Posts: 998
August 19th, 2013 at 9:47:22 AM permalink
I guess I was thinking more of the Atlantic City version, where you automatically get half back and don't have a choice between surrendering half or imprisoning it.
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009