NewToCraps
NewToCraps
Joined: Jun 16, 2013
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August 8th, 2013 at 3:06:10 PM permalink
Quote: CrazyCanuck

Win- The final winning requirement of a bet occurs, player receives > 100% of initial bet.

Loss- the final losing requirement of a bet occurs, bet is 100% lost.

Push/Tie- Bet sequence is complete without a win or loss occurring, original bet is returned to player. As mentioned a 12 on the don’t pass pushes and you may pick up your bet. I’d also consider any place bet to be a push on any number that isn’t a win or a 7 as you can pick up that bet.

Unresolved (“in play”?)- A bet that follows a sequence that potentially requires more than one roll to win or lose, with some potential intermediate events being neither a win nor loss but not a “push” as defined above. The difference between a push and an unresloved bet is that with a push the bet sequence is over and the player can pick up the bet, re-bet it or even increase it, with an unresolved contract bet once it’s made and the sequence is started it must stay until its resolved. Note: a player can end a don’t bet on any established point by accepting a push from the casino, the term here is “no action” although it’s not the same as the definition for “no action” above. Technically I’d say in that instance the bet is resolved in a push by the player requesting and the casino agreeing to the push (one possible sequence known about the contract before the bet is made) and the player starts a new contract bet if he chooses to leave it on the don’t come bar.

No Action- No bet was ever made. Usually occurs where a player tries to make a bet but the casino refuses to accept the bet. Most commonly occurs when a player tries to bet when dice are in the air or later, also possible because bet is not allowed (under table limit, over table limit, come bet on come-out roll etc., trying to bet fire bet after someone else did and shooter has made 1 point). Because no bet was made the original wager is returned as if nothing happened. Good dealers will clearly and loudly say “no action” ASAP to pre-exempt any argument about payouts.
Dice off the table would also be no action with respect to that “throw” of the dice, one of the requirements of a craps bet is both dice stay on the table and produce a number if this doesn’t happen the throw is a “non-throw”. You can see its no-action because after dice go off the table any bet that is not a contract bet in progress can be picked up. Also with short throws you may hear "no roll" meaning despite the dice being thrown the the result does not count, usually do to a short roll.



Very clearly written, do you have a side job at wikipedia?
Learned Craps in 2013 .... Developed and have a PATENT on Craps "Back On Bet" side bet ... Working on Craps game variations hope to have patents in 2018 - Second Chance Craps and Sub-Crap-tion ... A completely new dice game idea is next - D.. Dice D......
Venthus
Venthus
Joined: Dec 10, 2012
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August 8th, 2013 at 3:14:19 PM permalink
Quote: CrazyCanuck

No Action- No bet was ever made. Usually occurs where a player tries to make a bet but the casino refuses to accept the bet. Most commonly occurs when a player tries to bet when dice are in the air or later, also possible because bet is not allowed (under table limit, over table limit, come bet on come-out roll etc., trying to bet fire bet after someone else did and shooter has made 1 point).



Has anybody actually managed to 'sneak' a come bet through during come out? How do they deal with it-- move it to pass, move it to come, or would they actually refuse it, even if the bettor didn't have pass? (Courtesy of one of my local places using a non-standard layout, I tend to absentmindedly drop my DCs into the DP bar...)
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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August 8th, 2013 at 3:20:41 PM permalink
Quote: Venthus

Has anybody actually managed to 'sneak' a come bet through during come out? How do they deal with it-- move it to pass, move it to come, or would they actually refuse it, even if the bettor didn't have pass?)


On the rare occasions I've seen this happen, the dealer/box just declared No Action.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
98Clubs
98Clubs
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August 8th, 2013 at 4:38:18 PM permalink
A push is generally speaking, a live bet that ties the Dealer (as in Blackjack).
No action means the bet was not accepted by the House (as in a late bet at a Craps table).
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Venthus
Venthus
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August 8th, 2013 at 4:46:16 PM permalink
Quote: 98Clubs

A push is generally speaking, a live bet that ties the Dealer (as in Blackjack).



That definition made a specific case come to mind-- is passing (as opposed to failing) a 1-for-1 a win or a push?

I'd be more specific and say that a push is a registered bet that is resolved without money (or currency equivalent) changing hands.

In something like VP, because you paid in advance, a 1-for-1 is a win, despite the end result being the same. A push would be... nonexistent, I guess? Similarly, you can win with a net less on anything that has a fractional payback.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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August 8th, 2013 at 6:22:36 PM permalink
I associate "no action" with sports bets, where it means that the bet was called off - for example, a baseball game was rained out. It's usually more associated with the positive form; when you make a futures bet on who's going to win the next college football championship, the odds form says, "All bets are action"; if, right after you make the bet, the NCAA announces that the team you bet on is ineligible for postseason play this year, the bet stands.

(There's also the term "with action"; I think that refers to a bet on a baseball game where the bet stands even if the starting pitcher for your team isn't the one previously announced as starting.)
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
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August 8th, 2013 at 6:27:59 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

"no action"...where it means that the bet was called off


I agree. The terms "No action" and "No bet" seem pretty much interchangeable.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
Mission146
Mission146
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August 9th, 2013 at 7:16:32 AM permalink
Quote: Venthus



In something like VP, because you paid in advance, a 1-for-1 is a win, despite the end result being the same. A push would be... nonexistent, I guess? Similarly, you can win with a net less on anything that has a fractional payback.



That's exactly right, because the pays are on a, "For One," basis. That's why a $0.01 denom slot machine with a Max Bet of $1.50 can, for example, say you won, "35 Credits," when the end result is actually that you have $1.15 less than when you made the spin.
Vultures can't be choosers.
ontariodealer
ontariodealer
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August 10th, 2013 at 12:23:44 AM permalink
no action is called out in craps when there is money on the layout that isn't a bet. An example the dealer gives somebody 15 dollars change but the guy is hitting on the server or talking to his buddy and the $15 is just sitting there. Another example is a guy buys in during a roll but does not want any bets from the cash.
get second you pig
CrazyCanuck
CrazyCanuck
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August 12th, 2013 at 8:25:23 AM permalink
Quote: Venthus

That definition made a specific case come to mind-- is passing (as opposed to failing) a 1-for-1 a win or a push?

I'd be more specific and say that a push is a registered bet that is resolved without money (or currency equivalent) changing hands.

In something like VP, because you paid in advance, a 1-for-1 is a win, despite the end result being the same. A push would be... nonexistent, I guess? Similarly, you can win with a net less on anything that has a fractional payback.



The difference here is splitting hairs. I’d call any bet where after the betting sequence is resolved and you have the same amount of money as you did at the start, and can pick up the bet, a push. It’s simply the marketing difference between bets paying “for” or “to”. VP paytables could easily be re-written with “to” payouts and the lowest payout would read “push” instead of 1-for-1. It also has to do with how your balance is displayed, in VP (and other electronic games) your bet is deducted from your balance when you bet and so a push increases your balance (back to your original), whereas in table games your bet is left on the felt until resolved, but the money isn’t any more yours than the money you can win if you get a winner in VP. If you’ve ever played an electronic version of craps and you bet your last $5 on the don’t your balance would show $0, if a 12 is rolled your balance would then show $5 as the push returns $5 to your stack. However in between time of placing the bet and the resolve that money is gone from your stack just like in VP. So I wouldn't consider a 1-to-1 win a "win" I'd consider it a push.

Quote: Mission146

That's exactly right, because the pays are on a, "For One," basis. That's why a $0.01 denom slot machine with a Max Bet of $1.50 can, for example, say you won, "35 Credits," when the end result is actually that you have $1.15 less than when you made the spin.



This is not so much a partial win as it is a single small win not making up for many other losses you experience on a particular spin. If a player bets 30 lines x 5 credits a line their total bet is 150 but more accurately they have 30-5 credit wagers, if 29 wagers lose and 1 wager wins 45 credits then the players net result that roll is 150-45 = 105 credit loss. When added together it’s a partial win but when seen as separate bets its 1 win with 29 losses. This is the same as having multiple passline/come bets and a new come bet and a 7 coming. Even though the player lost (say) $250 and only won $25 on the last come bet the last come bet was still a “full win”, it’s only when combined with all the other bets that a new loss occurs.

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