Bridging vs Heeling Your Odds on the Don't
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Anyway, I was just curious. Thanks.
If there was some advantage to letting dealers know a player is very experienced, maybe then I would.
The Box will sometimes say "let those bets breathe" meaning physically separate two bets that are so closely and perhaps somewhat sloppily positioned that there could be a later argument as to which is which. The adjustment is done by the dealer since once a bet reaches the layout it really is supposed to be touched only by the dealer and not "adjusted" by a helpful player.
I remember one trip where between jet lag and alcohol I couldn't keep anything straight and the dealer was switching my dont pass and dont pass odds bets each and every single roll. He earned his tips that trip.
Oh... as to the vote. I not only don't know but I'm also a bigot.
Lay odds are heeled when they pay more than the flat.
Easy as that.
Some of us even remember the good old days of "the two-finger rule." Mention it, especially with an old-timer, and watch the grin of recognition.Quote: FleaStiffThe Box will sometimes say "let those bets breathe" meaning physically separate two bets that are so closely and perhaps somewhat sloppily positioned that there could be a later argument as to which is which. The adjustment is done by the dealer since once a bet reaches the layout it really is supposed to be touched only by the dealer and not "adjusted" by a helpful player.
Quote:Lay odds are bridged when they pay the same as the flat bet.
Lay odds are heeled when they pay different than the flat.
I offer as an example:
With $10 flat bet, you would bridge odds bet of:
$20 on 4/10
$15 on 5/9
$12 on 6/8
Any other amount of odds would be heeled.
There is also an exception to this. If you do something goofy, like put 10 whites on the line, then try to use 3 reds to lay odds on a point of 5/9, they will be heeled in this case as well since it's hard to bridge a stack of 10 whites with a stack of 2 reds.
Quote: wudgedClarkWGriswold gave an almost correct answer. Some places will let you lay less than 1x odds (say $5 flat with $6 odds on a 4/5/9/10) so really it should say:
Quote:Lay odds are bridged when they pay the same as the flat bet.
Lay odds are heeled when they pay different than the flat.
I offer as an example:
With $10 flat bet, you would bridge odds bet of:
$20 on 4/10
$15 on 5/9
$12 on 6/8
Any other amount of odds would be heeled.
There is also an exception to this. If you do something goofy, like put 10 whites on the line, then try to use 3 reds to lay odds on a point of 5/9, they will be heeled in this case as well since it's hard to bridge a stack of 10 whites with a stack of 2 reds.
Got it. I usually bet much more on the odds, so it makes sense that no dealer has taught or "corrected" me when I should have bridged instead of heeled.
My most common betting pattern is 6x whatever my DP bet is on the lay odds (6x being the max at a 3-4-5 joint), so unless I'm not getting it, that would always be heeled.
EDIT: Here are some pretty pictures! I did not read all of the text on that page, so I can't vouch for it being correct.
Quote: ClarkWGriswoldLay odds are bridged when they pay the same as the flat bet.
Lay odds are heeled when they pay more than the flat.
Easy as that.
What does it actually look like to "bridge" (as opposed to heel) a don't pass bet?
Quote: WizardWhat does it actually look like to "bridge" (as opposed to heel) a don't pass bet?
Bridge would look like 2 stacks of even chips with a stick sitting on top of those splitting the middle. So it would look like a little house.
Heeling the chips are leaning on the stack
Quote: WizardofnothingWow - even the wizard reviving an old thread? Was your accout. Hacked?
I'm writing an article on craps for sister site Latest Casino Bonuses and wanted to explain properly how to heel a bet. In part 4 of my craps videos, which isn't out yet, Ahigh went to get lengths to ensure I explained it properly. However, I couldn't remember exactly what he said and the video isn't out yet to check. So, I did a search and ended up here.
Quote: GWAEBridge would look like 2 stacks of even chips with a stick sitting on top of those splitting the middle. So it would look like a little house.
Heeling the chips are leaning on the stack
Thanks. Why is there even a need to Bridge a bet?
Quote: WizardI'm writing an article on craps for sister site Latest Casino Bonuses and wanted to explain properly how to heel a bet. In part 4 of my craps videos, which isn't out yet, Ahigh went to get lengths to ensure I explained it properly. However, I couldn't remember exactly what he said and the video isn't out yet to check. So, I did a search and ended up here.
Thanks. Why is there even a need to Bridge a bet?
My guess is its easy for the dealers to pay the wager. Essentially you don't pay the bridge just even money on the chips underneath the bridge.
Quote: rudeboyoiMy guess is its easy for the dealers to pay the wager. Essentially you don't pay the bridge just even money on the chips underneath the bridge.
That is correct. If the DC was a 9, you would bridge it. If you have a 20 dc then you would pit 20 next to it and 10 on top. The payout would be 20 for the first stack and 20 for the odds.
Quote: rudeboyoiMy guess is its easy for the dealers to pay the wager. Essentially you don't pay the bridge just even money on the chips underneath the bridge.
That also is what Ahigh says. I hope nobody will call me out on quoting from a banned member, but here is what he told me via Email:
Quote: AhighYou bridge stack ONLY under the circumstances where the lay odds and the don't pass win the same amount.
So if the point is 4/10, it's when you lay twice as much as the don't pass bet.
On the 5/9 it's when you lay 50% more than the don't pass.
And on the 6/8 when you lay 20% more than the don't pass bet.
There are exceptions to this rule, DEPENDING on the house rules and/or the dealer.
For example, if you have a $6 don't pass bet, and you have a $5 chip and a $1 chip on top, you can bridge $6 on top of the two side-by-side $6 stacks.
But some houses/dealers will heel stack if you bridge this and shake their heads.
In every case, you may heel stack your lay bets and it is completely acceptable.
Just WINNING single-odds from your lay bet is the short answer when you bridge-stack.
And a second reply...
Quote:And in general the questionable case is only when there are multiple COLORED chips in the don't pass. Not just multiple chips, but multiple COLORS of chips.
Quote: Wizard...I hope nobody will call me out on quoting from a banned member...
That rule shouldn't apply to self banned member who can come back.
ie: $5 flat bet against the 4/10, player puts five reds down, one increasing his flat bet, the other 4 as a lay, effectively increasing his $5 flat bet to $10.
Heeling the odds should be done towards the base dealer on the base dealer's side of the flat bet. Odds always get paid first (this is true on the DP and the PL).
Odds on DP should never be a single chip. To lay $100, don't put down 1 black, put down 4 green.
If you're a DC player, should try to stand near the base dealer instead of stickman, so you aren't reaching across the table to make your DC bets. (Some casinos are an exception, where there is a don't-come-line, easily accessible to all at the table.)
Most importantly, remember to have fun & be sure to root for a 7-out every roll, and curse at the shooter if he hits his point.
Quote: GWAE(gives explanation)
!!
I see you've quit asking questions and can now provide answers!
Quote: odiousgambit!!
I see you've quit asking questions and can now provide answers!
Shhhhh
Quote: WizardWhat does it actually look like to "bridge" (as opposed to heel) a don't pass bet?
From http://www.crapspit.org/craps-bets/dont-pass-bet/
Quote: RSOdds on DP should never be a single chip. To lay $100, don't put down 1 black, put down 4 green.
Please explain why.
Because lay odds always pays less than the odds amount when it wins, so any single chip bet will necessarily need to be paid in multiple chips of a smaller denomination. It's easier (faster) for the dealers to pay when those smaller denominations are already there because you see the number of chips and therefore know what the keys are. With a single bigger chip you actually have to do math in your head. If you have $25 on don't, point of 10, and you want to lay $100 odds, it's easier for the dealer to see it pays $50 when you heel $25 + $75 vs. just putting the black chip there.Quote: BlueEaglePlease explain why (to not use a single chip to lay odds).
Quote: MathExtremistBecause lay odds always pays less than the odds amount when it wins, so any single chip bet will necessarily need to be paid in multiple chips of a smaller denomination. It's easier (faster) for the dealers to pay when those smaller denominations are already there because you see the number of chips and therefore know what the keys are. With a single bigger chip you actually have to do math in your head. If you have $25 on don't, point of 10, and you want to lay $100 odds, it's easier for the dealer to see it pays $50 when you heel $25 + $75 vs. just putting the black chip there.
The reason is because it is hard for dealers to tell if it is a flat bet or odds bet, since there aren't additional chips there to bridge or heel.
Quote: Ace2Are put bets heeled ?
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No. Put bets can be a single chip or a single stack of chips.
If there are odds on a put the chips resemble a passline with odds.
Put bets are right way bets.
Lay bets are wrong way or dark side bets and they are a single chip or a single stack and are not made with odds.
Quote: Ace2Sorry. I think that instead of a put bet I meant a place bet on the current point number. I was just watching a video and it looked like a guy made such a place bet by heeling a stack of chips right on the back line of the pass line (actually on the white line, not in the green pass line area)
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I've seen players heel their late passline bets on the line, but that's ridiculous. If you do that the flat bet is paid even money. It's better to bet it all on the line as a place bet so all the chips are paid with place bet odds.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: Ace2Sorry. I think that instead of a put bet I meant a place bet on the current point number. I was just watching a video and it looked like a guy made such a place bet by heeling a stack of chips right on the back line of the pass line (actually on the white line, not in the green pass line area)
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I've seen players heel their late passline bets on the line, but that's ridiculous. If you do that the flat bet is paid even money. It's better to bet it all on the line as a place bet so all the chips are paid with place bet odds.
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So that is a put bet on the point. And if you play full odds at 3/4/5 table, it has the same payout at a place bet for an inside number (5, 6, 8 or 9). So it’s not ridiculous in those circumstances. For a 4/10 point you are much better off buying the point if vig on win (not placing or putting the point).
Quote: Ace2Sorry. I think that instead of a put bet I meant a place bet on the current point number. I was just watching a video and it looked like a guy made such a place bet by heeling a stack of chips right on the back line of the pass line (actually on the white line, not in the green pass line area)
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Yes, you are describing a place bet made on the current point. Some casinos/dealers will prefer to bring the bet onto the actual number but others will let the player leave the bet directly on the white line as you describe. It's supposed to be heeled off so that everyone knows it's a place bet and not a pass line bet. The bet will be paid at place bet odds, not even money.
Let's say you're at a craps table with $500 of green promo chips which can only be used for even money bets.
You can use them on the pass or DP and then "put" the box numbers.
Of course the box number bets are only paid as even money, but it gives you the opportunity to turn the promo chips into live chips.
With a house edge between 9% and 33%, doesnt sound appealingQuote: AlanMendelsonThere is another time when you want to make put bets: when the casino gives you chips that can only be used on even money bets.
Let's say you're at a craps table with $500 of green promo chips which can only be used for even money bets.
You can use them on the pass or DP and then "put" the box numbers.
Of course the box number bets are only paid as even money, but it gives you the opportunity to turn the promo chips into live chips.
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Quote: Ace2With a house edge between 9% and 33%, doesnt sound appealingQuote: AlanMendelsonThere is another time when you want to make put bets: when the casino gives you chips that can only be used on even money bets.
Let's say you're at a craps table with $500 of green promo chips which can only be used for even money bets.
You can use them on the pass or DP and then "put" the box numbers.
Of course the box number bets are only paid as even money, but it gives you the opportunity to turn the promo chips into live chips.
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You remind me of the craps players who limit their bets to the 6 and 8... and stand there watching shooters pound away at 4s 5s 9s and 10s.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: Ace2Sorry. I think that instead of a put bet I meant a place bet on the current point number. I was just watching a video and it looked like a guy made such a place bet by heeling a stack of chips right on the back line of the pass line (actually on the white line, not in the green pass line area)
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I've seen players heel their late passline bets on the line, but that's ridiculous. If you do that the flat bet is paid even money. It's better to bet it all on the line as a place bet so all the chips are paid with place bet odds.
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Not at all. I have done this many times when arriving at a table with chips in hand, point already established, and wanting into the (right way) action immediately. If you straddle the chip(s) on the back line, that tells the crew:
a) I was not on the pass line when the point was established, and
b) I want to place the point, and
c) I don't want to interrupt things doing that.
Had it paid off as a place bet many times.
Mind you it's usually a 6 or 8 so plunking down $12 helps.
Someone won the Powerball jackpot last weekend…damn, why didn’t I buy a ticket and win like himQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: Ace2With a house edge between 9% and 33%, doesnt sound appealingQuote: AlanMendelsonThere is another time when you want to make put bets: when the casino gives you chips that can only be used on even money bets.
Let's say you're at a craps table with $500 of green promo chips which can only be used for even money bets.
You can use them on the pass or DP and then "put" the box numbers.
Of course the box number bets are only paid as even money, but it gives you the opportunity to turn the promo chips into live chips.
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You remind me of the craps players who limit their bets to the 6 and 8... and stand there watching shooters pound away at 4s 5s 9s and 10s.
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If you place 4/10 all weekend you have a very low chance (like 10%) of showing a profit. If you bet Pass + max odds it’s around 47%. I’ll take the latter.
Assume 600 bets resolved. It’s not like you need millions of trials to see the effect of the edge
Quote: Ace2Someone won the Powerball jackpot last weekend…damn, why didn’t I buy a ticket and win like himQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: Ace2With a house edge between 9% and 33%, doesnt sound appealingQuote: AlanMendelsonThere is another time when you want to make put bets: when the casino gives you chips that can only be used on even money bets.
Let's say you're at a craps table with $500 of green promo chips which can only be used for even money bets.
You can use them on the pass or DP and then "put" the box numbers.
Of course the box number bets are only paid as even money, but it gives you the opportunity to turn the promo chips into live chips.
link to original post
link to original post
You remind me of the craps players who limit their bets to the 6 and 8... and stand there watching shooters pound away at 4s 5s 9s and 10s.
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If you place 4/10 all weekend you have a very low chance (like 10%) of showing a profit. If you bet Pass + max odds it’s around 47%. I’ll take the latter.
Assume 600 bets resolved. It’s not like you need millions of trials to see the effect of the edge
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Your mileage may vary.
