Buy vs. Place Bets
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I understand the difference between placing and buying bets.
However, I am confused as to why both of these bets exist in the first place - they both win or lose based on the exact same outcomes. It makes me wonder if there is something I'm missing.
Are the two types of bets just there to take advantage of players that don't understand the math? Why would anyone ever want to buy a 6 or 8?
The story I heard by the old timer that taught me to deal Dice in Reno last century, he was taught by an old-timer from Philly.
sounds OK, but who really knows??
Bank Craps started out as Pass Line only, come bets, a Field bet. a few prop bets and Buy bets.
You wanted a # without going thru the Come, it cost you 5% of your wager up front to get a true odds payoff.
That is how the Bank made some cash on these type bets.
Today many casinos have a min Buy of $20.
Place bets are far less.
I do not know what they were back then. Not much about the early game of Craps documented.
The Big 6&8 came next with hardways, the players wanted them.
Place Bets came last and are just a 'put bet' with 4x odds (outside#s)
and 5x odds (6&8) because the players and the house wanted them instead of having so many chips on the table with
1 with 4 and 1 with 5 put bets
Place bets made the game cleaner and faster to deal and supervise and can be made for less $$$ than a Buy bet.
casino rules apply
Quote: JimmerWhy would anyone ever want to buy a 6 or 8?
They don't. At least I've never seen anyone buy anything other than the 4 and 10 over the past 20 years.
They do when you can by the 5 & 9 with vig on win (like in Mississippi).Quote: Beethoven9thThey don't. At least I've never seen anyone buy anything other than the 4 and 10 over the past 20 years.
Quote: teddysThey do when you can by the 5 & 9 with vig on win (like in Mississippi).
Do you know if any place in Vegas does this??
None do that I'm aware of.Quote: Beethoven9thDo you know if any place in Vegas does this??
Quote: teddysNone do that I'm aware of.
Damn, that figures!
Thanks for the tip about Mississippi. (I keep forgetting that there are other casinos besides Reno/Vegas) I'll have to remember about the vig on a win if I'm ever in that neck of the woods.
Quote: teddysThey do when you can by the 5 & 9 with vig on win (like in Mississippi).
And Harrah's Cherokee in my home state of NC also has a Buy 5/9, vig on win!
Not often one can put a plug in for a Harrah's having a player favorable rule.........but if I am not mistaken, the casino is owned by the tribe, and is just run by Harrah's, so it's not really their rules.
Quote: Beethoven9thDamn, that figures!
Thanks for the tip about Mississippi. (I keep forgetting that there are other casinos besides Reno/Vegas) I'll have to remember about the vig on a win if I'm ever in that neck of the woods.
You don't even have to remember it! The good folks in MS will automatically give you the Buy bet (they don't bother to mark it with lammers). What happens is, you bet your normal $25 on a 5, a five rolls, and instead of getting $35 like you would expect, the dealer hands you $36 (because of the breakage on the odd number bet).
And, if you still weren't paying any attention, when you press it to $40, and you are expecting to get $56, the dealer hands you $58 instead. It adds up.
Quote: RaleighCrapsYou don't even have to remember it! The good folks in MS will automatically give you the Buy bet (they don't bother to mark it with lammers). What happens is, you bet your normal $25 on a 5, a five rolls, and instead of getting $35 like you would expect, the dealer hands you $36 (because of the breakage on the odd number bet).
And, if you still weren't paying any attention, when you press it to $40, and you are expecting to get $56, the dealer hands you $58 instead. It adds up.
That's awesome. It's good to see that there are still some casinos out there that aren't trying to bleed every last penny out of us!
Quote: Beethoven9thDo you know if any place in Vegas does this??
I think Sams Town does...$30 for $1...
Viejas used to have a "card craps" table that was dealt out of a continuous shuffler and played at a blackjack style table. They now have a "real" craps table but since they're in California they have to use cards to determine the actual outcome of the roll. They also offer 10x odds on all points so it's really pretty generous rules.
Thanks for the update.Quote: PBguyViejas tribal casino in San Diego just put in a craps table and offer a "vig on win"
(although they call it a 'free buy').
$20 on 5/9 pays $29 instead of the $28 you'd normal make.
$25 4/10 pay $49 as expected.
Casino Morongo in Cabazon removed their craps table a few months back.
I hear they are going to a craps machine but have not gone back there to see
if they now have one.
How do they do the cards?Quote: PBguyViejas used to have a "card craps" table that was dealt out of a continuous shuffler
and played at a blackjack style table.
They now have a "real" craps table but since they're in California
they have to use cards to determine the actual outcome of the roll.
They also offer 10x on all points so it's really pretty generous rules.
2 sets of 1-6? or?
Pechanga does that with one shufflemaster shoe.
Do you have any other specs? table limits?
Do they offer Hop bets, the Fire bet
3x Field?
thanks again
Quote: RaleighCrapsYou don't even have to remember it! The good folks in MS will automatically give you the Buy bet (they don't bother to mark it with lammers). What happens is, you bet your normal $25 on a 5, a five rolls, and instead of getting $35 like you would expect, the dealer hands you $36 (because of the breakage on the odd number bet).
And, if you still weren't paying any attention, when you press it to $40, and you are expecting to get $56, the dealer hands you $58 instead. It adds up.
Holy crap, thats better than getting 10 to 7 on the 9&5 (40 pays 57)
Quote: 7crapsThanks for the update.
Casino Morongo in Cabazon removed their craps table a few months back.
I hear they are going to a craps machine but have not gone back there to see
if they now have one.
How do they do the cards?
2 sets of 1-6? or?
Pechanga does that with one shufflemaster shoe.
Do you have any other specs? table limits?
Do they offer Hop bets, the Fire bet
3x Field?
thanks again
Table limit = $5 - $600
No fire bet or hop bet. Field pays 2x on 2 and 3x on 12.
1 set of cards 1 through 6 shuffled before each new shooter and laid out on a spot representing a number on a die - basically same as Barona and Sycuan (except now Barona shuffles after every roll). This way you always know what you need to roll to hit your point or the hardways. When the cards are dealt in order 1 through 6 then it's a "natural" and whatever is rolled on the dice is the roll - a 1 is a 1, 2 is a 2, etc.
Only thing that's really any different is that they often run the table with only 2 dealers so the person on stick does the cards too. In that case they don't have anyone sitting at the box. The table design has spots for the cards in front of the stick and in front of the box.
Quote: PBguyViejas tribal casino in San Diego just put in a craps table and offer a "vig on win" (although they call it a 'free buy'). $20 on 5/9 pays $29 instead of the $28 you'd normally make. $25 4/10 pay $49 as expected.
(Sorry, coming late to this thread.)
I heard that Viejas put in a "real" craps table, but the "vig on win" is news to me. That's great! Let's hope other San Diego-area casinos follow suit!
Quote: JimmerAre the two types of bets just there to take advantage of players that don't understand the math? Why would anyone ever want to buy a 6 or 8?
At the Venetian they just give the player the better of the two bets. I would imagine lots of places do this. Based on what little craps, I've played most players don't specify if they are making a place or buy bet, they just state what numbers they want to buy and for how much.
Rounding rules may play into it too. A dealer friend of mine said rounding policy is not set in stone and depends on the dealer, and to the dealer it may depend on how well the player is "taking care of the boys."
Quote: JimmerWhy would anyone ever want to buy a 6 or 8?
It's useful in tournaments when there is no vig, otherwise there is no point in doing so.
I tried this at Harrington, DE and the next tournament that came you were only allowed to buy the 4 and 10.
