Come bet preference question
June 13th, 2013 at 6:16:57 AM
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If you got into a situation where you had all the numbers covered with pass/come with max odds but haven't gotten any hits yet, would you:
A. Continue putting come bets/max odds
B. Let then come down after each hit
A. Continue putting come bets/max odds
B. Let then come down after each hit
June 13th, 2013 at 6:52:23 AM
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You forgot:
C. Press
C. Press
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
June 13th, 2013 at 8:48:01 AM
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Quote: JeffRIf you got into a situation where you had all the numbers covered with pass/come with max odds but haven't gotten any hits yet, would you:
A. Continue putting come bets/max odds
B. Let then come down after each hit
C. Switch to the Dark Side on the theory that IF I encounter that dreaded "7" at least I'll make something back and that it is more likely that as my numbers start to hit they will hit only once and I will profit from the bet having hit and from the subsequent, eventual 7 which will take place with no repeats that would knock down my new Don't Come Bets.
June 13th, 2013 at 8:48:47 AM
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A. Keep putting them out there.
ZCore13
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
June 13th, 2013 at 9:14:17 AM
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I just toss out another come bet in that situation--7/11, I win; 2/3/12, I lose...if a 4,5,6,8,9,10 is rolled, I am "off and on" that number.
You could also skip the come bet and see if a couple of numbers hit to collect something before betting again, but I don't usually have that much control since my playing time is limited.
You could also skip the come bet and see if a couple of numbers hit to collect something before betting again, but I don't usually have that much control since my playing time is limited.
June 13th, 2013 at 9:19:45 AM
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This situation is the easiest. The only way you lose your come bet is with 2/3/12, so put another one out there.
If the concern is that you have too much out there, you should have asked that question back when you had 3-4 come bets out without hitting one.
If you miss that come bet and REALLY REALLY want to be on that number, just go with a place bet. Yes it is worse odds, but you will never play long enough for those %s to matter enough. Always doing place I think you would notice, 1 in 20 or 30 times wouldn't matter.
If the concern is that you have too much out there, you should have asked that question back when you had 3-4 come bets out without hitting one.
If you miss that come bet and REALLY REALLY want to be on that number, just go with a place bet. Yes it is worse odds, but you will never play long enough for those %s to matter enough. Always doing place I think you would notice, 1 in 20 or 30 times wouldn't matter.
June 13th, 2013 at 9:58:05 AM
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D.) I don't make Come Bets.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
June 13th, 2013 at 11:56:49 AM
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They are just like PassLine Bets. What bets would you make at craps if not a Come Bet?Quote: Mission146D.) I don't make Come Bets.
June 14th, 2013 at 1:32:42 AM
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Quote: JeffRall the numbers covered with pass/come with max odds but haven't gotten any hits yet
All the numbers? Something tells me you mean you've gotten hits along the way but now you are in this situation having built up to it. In any case, personally I think you are dangerously over-exposed. I would take down all my odds bets, maybe keeping max odds on a favorite number. If you are lucky enough to find the situation improving to having 3-4 numbers going [at most] then you could go back to putting up some odds.
About the only time I would find myself close to trying to attain the condition you describe is betting with a shooter that can seem to do no wrong. Even then, it's hard to keep 6 numbers covered without placing some. Numbers hit, you replace the same number; come-out 7s are rolled, too, typically, returning your odds. So even a shooter that is on a monster roll seldom gets you to 6 numbers to try to hit [assuming you arent placing any]. But if you get there, protect yourself [I suppose going down to single odds is another way]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 14th, 2013 at 4:25:50 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffThey are just like PassLine Bets. What bets would you make at craps if not a Come Bet?
Pass Line bets, Odds. Maybe a buck on the Fire Bet, but don't tell The Wizard!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
June 14th, 2013 at 4:41:07 AM
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But a PassLine, Odds Bet is EXACTLY the same as a ComeBet w/Odds. EXACTLY. All a come bet is an implied conversation with the dealer that although you know the next roll ain't no come out roll, you don't want to stand around waiting for the next official come out roll so you and he are going to pretend its a come out roll just for you and your stack of chips.Quote: Mission146Pass Line bets, Odds.
Heck, its known as "taking a flyer" or something. And if your with a broad who likes such bets you darn well better keep her happy or you will never hear the end of it. That "buck" is not for gambling, its for peace of mind. The Wizard knows that.Quote: Mission146Maybe a buck on the Fire Bet, but don't tell The Wizard!
June 14th, 2013 at 4:56:16 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitAll the numbers? Something tells me you mean you've gotten hits along the way but now you are in this situation having built up to it. In any case, personally I think you are dangerously over-exposed.
I would tend to agree about the over exposure, otherwise the answer would be obvious - continue come betting. If you are asking because you are concerned about your exposure, do something similar to what odiousgambit recommends - stop come betting after two or three come bets and wait until something hit. Increase the number of come bets after you have a profit from this hand in your rack (preferably at least two times your betting spread). If a come bet hits, go ahead and make another come bet to replace it, but don't have more than the two or three come bets until you have that profit locked up.
June 14th, 2013 at 8:27:19 AM
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I still remember one dealer who opened her yap as I covered ALL the numbers with my various ComeBets and her "You are all over the place" caused that Seven to roll.Quote: dicerollerI would tend to agree about the over exposure,
June 14th, 2013 at 8:36:38 AM
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Yeah, that's why it's best to make a come bet only when that number will repeat quickly and only re-bet the come when it is a number you already have covered. That's my preference, anyway.
June 15th, 2013 at 7:24:05 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffBut a PassLine, Odds Bet is EXACTLY the same as a ComeBet w/Odds. EXACTLY. All a come bet is an implied conversation with the dealer that although you know the next roll ain't no come out roll, you don't want to stand around waiting for the next official come out roll so you and he are going to pretend its a come out roll just for you and your stack of chips.
Aside from the Fire Bet, I only like doing one thing at a time, I'm very easy to keep entertained at the Craps Table. I know that the Odds are the same, so I have no issues with making the bet, it's just that I'd rather have my PL/Odds and call it a hand.
Quote:Heck, its known as "taking a flyer" or something. And if your with a broad who likes such bets you darn well better keep her happy or you will never hear the end of it. That "buck" is not for gambling, its for peace of mind. The Wizard knows that.
You are the man!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
.jpeg "Bohemian"){kind=small}
June 15th, 2013 at 9:23:23 AM
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Quote: Mission146D.) I don't make Come Bets.
EXACTLY Mission146!!!
Come bets are sucker bets IMO. The number has to be thrown twice before you get paid once. In most cases, the same amount of monies invested as a place bet would have paid more than any come bet would have paid you for during the same amount of rolls for the same amount invested.
Of course even the worst bets win every now and then, even a broken clock is right 2x EVERY day.
June 15th, 2013 at 10:40:16 AM
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I'd just keep on making come bets. My biggest wins are when this happens.
June 15th, 2013 at 11:18:37 AM
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ditto
June 15th, 2013 at 12:25:06 PM
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I do not know where some players get the idea that Come bets are the worst bets. No number has to hit twice for a Come bet to win. On the first placement you can win eight ways, the 7 and 11; you can lose four ways, the 2, 3 and 12. That's two-to-one in your favor. And when it goes up on a number that is not necessarily the number you would have placed. Now, while the Come bettor is facing a two-to-one edge on his first placement, the Place bettor is facing a disadvantage on any number he places. In every way, the Come bet is better.
I do not understand why players so readily discount the math in craps. It is pretty simple to see that a 1.41 percent house edge on the Come is way smaller than a 6.67 percent house edge on placing the 4 or 10, the four percent edge on the 5 and 9 and the 1.52 percent edge on the 6 and 8. Even that 1.52 percent edge is misleading because you must bet in $6 intervals on the 6 and 8 whereas you can bet in $5 intervals on Come bets. Even buying the 4 or 10 is not a better bet than the Come bet.
As for the first question. Yikes! Being on all the numbers without hitting any of them? I doubt I would ever be in such a situation. I would have one bet on a random roller with odds. Even on myself or one of my dice control friends I would not be spreading out like that. Way too much danger.
However, say I saw you with all those bets out there. I might suggest you take off some of the odds; or all of the odds on most of the bets to reduce the chances that you would get creamed. Even though the odds have no house edge the variance using such a bet can be great. And, by the way young man, next time don't get caught in this situation.
I do not understand why players so readily discount the math in craps. It is pretty simple to see that a 1.41 percent house edge on the Come is way smaller than a 6.67 percent house edge on placing the 4 or 10, the four percent edge on the 5 and 9 and the 1.52 percent edge on the 6 and 8. Even that 1.52 percent edge is misleading because you must bet in $6 intervals on the 6 and 8 whereas you can bet in $5 intervals on Come bets. Even buying the 4 or 10 is not a better bet than the Come bet.
As for the first question. Yikes! Being on all the numbers without hitting any of them? I doubt I would ever be in such a situation. I would have one bet on a random roller with odds. Even on myself or one of my dice control friends I would not be spreading out like that. Way too much danger.
However, say I saw you with all those bets out there. I might suggest you take off some of the odds; or all of the odds on most of the bets to reduce the chances that you would get creamed. Even though the odds have no house edge the variance using such a bet can be great. And, by the way young man, next time don't get caught in this situation.
June 15th, 2013 at 3:12:30 PM
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Quote: FrankScobleteYikes! Being on all the numbers without hitting any of them? I doubt I would ever be in such a situation. I would have one bet on a random roller with odds. Even on myself or one of my dice control friends I would not be spreading out like that. Way too much danger.
Then again, as part of one's regular methods it is reasonably affordable to start out with $22 inside, at first hit throw in $3 to place the 4 and 10, then alternate "same bet, press."
Sure, you need a pretty good roll to score, but if you get whacked a few times go back to minimal betting on 6 and 8 and wait for things to either heat up or wind up.
You can't win if you don't bet.
"What, me worry?"
June 15th, 2013 at 4:35:18 PM
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Just found this forum and this is my first post. I lived a come bettors dream yesterday. I typically play the PL and two come bets. I was at Harrah's in Cherokee NC. They offer 10X odds but that is a little steep for my bankroll. I was playing at a ten dollar table and taking single odds on the 4,5,9 and 10 and a $25 odds on the 6 and 8. My $500 buy-in was down to $300 when the guy next to me got the dice and set a point of 5. Since this was my last session before heading home, I decided to let it all hang out and kept $10 in the come on every roll. I figured if the seven popped up and took down all my bets it was my last session anyway, so what the heck. The shooter rolled every other number in succession and suddenly I had all the numbers covered. I let the $10 sit in the come and listened to those sweet words "off and on" from a lovely lady dealer for the next fifteen minutes or so. The $10 in the come got picked off by craps a couple of times but they were offset by a couple of yo's I put the dealers on the come for $5 with single odds three times and they won their come bets. The shooter never made the point but eventually sevened out and down went all my bets.
I was the next shooter but decided to color out, figuring lighting was not going to strike twice. My $500 buy-in was now $750 so I told the box man "a quarter for the dealers" and headed to the cashier.
I was the next shooter but decided to color out, figuring lighting was not going to strike twice. My $500 buy-in was now $750 so I told the box man "a quarter for the dealers" and headed to the cashier.
June 15th, 2013 at 4:48:30 PM
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Quote: BohemianEXACTLY Mission146!!!
Come bets are sucker bets IMO. The number has to be thrown twice before you get paid once. In most cases, the same amount of monies invested as a place bet would have paid more than any come bet would have paid you for during the same amount of rolls for the same amount invested.
Of course even the worst bets win every now and then, even a broken clock is right 2x EVERY day.
You don't have to hit them twice, you can place the 6 and 8 and still Come. Plus, if you say you have to hit it twice to win, you also have to hit it once to lose. If you 7-out quickly, you lose nothing on the Come, but you lose all of your place bets. It's all the same, just in different order.
June 15th, 2013 at 7:20:18 PM
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I always like to stop by the crap tables in a casino to see what kind of bets people are making. Saw a new method I had never seen before the other day. A guy was putting the outside numbers for $5+$50 and working on the come out. He would add the six/eight if anything hit, and then would press the put bets to $75/$100/$200. I never saw him get on any good rolls. This was at Blue Chip in Michigan City, Indiana (20X odds).
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
June 15th, 2013 at 10:58:59 PM
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5+50 Put Bet is 5 flat bet plus 50 odds(10x) at a five dollar table, automatically working so at risk of losing to a come out 7.
If he presses anything he wants to press the odds if possible since that is what pays better, so he can press to 75 odds (15x)
or to 100 odds (20x), but how does he get to 200? Press the flat bet up to a Dime?
If he presses anything he wants to press the odds if possible since that is what pays better, so he can press to 75 odds (15x)
or to 100 odds (20x), but how does he get to 200? Press the flat bet up to a Dime?
June 16th, 2013 at 7:10:54 AM
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Yep. He just put an extra nickel on the flat bet.Quote: FleaStiff5+50 Put Bet is 5 flat bet plus 50 odds(10x) at a five dollar table, automatically working so at risk of losing to a come out 7.
If he presses anything he wants to press the odds if possible since that is what pays better, so he can press to 75 odds (15x)
or to 100 odds (20x), but how does he get to 200? Press the flat bet up to a Dime?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
June 24th, 2013 at 7:11:51 PM
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Don't play the Pass line or come bet, it's terrible odds. Let me explain.
Assume the table is $10 minimum, and 3/4/5 times odds.
If a 4/10 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $30 on the odds. If it pays out, you would win $70. However if you put $40 on the number, you win $78 ($2 for the buy).
If a 5/9 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $40 on the odds. If it pays out, you would win $70. However, if you put $50 on the number, you also win $70. Exact same.
If a 6/8 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $50 on the odds. If it pays out, you win $70. If your put $60 on the number, you also win $70. Exact same.
If you bet less than max odds, you make even less than you would if you put the money directly on the number.
Took me a long time to figure that one out, but now the only way I play the line is if I am rolling.
Assume the table is $10 minimum, and 3/4/5 times odds.
If a 4/10 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $30 on the odds. If it pays out, you would win $70. However if you put $40 on the number, you win $78 ($2 for the buy).
If a 5/9 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $40 on the odds. If it pays out, you would win $70. However, if you put $50 on the number, you also win $70. Exact same.
If a 6/8 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $50 on the odds. If it pays out, you win $70. If your put $60 on the number, you also win $70. Exact same.
If you bet less than max odds, you make even less than you would if you put the money directly on the number.
Took me a long time to figure that one out, but now the only way I play the line is if I am rolling.
June 24th, 2013 at 7:29:51 PM
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If Pass line or come bet with max odds is "terrible odds", then how come getting the "exact same" is not?
June 24th, 2013 at 7:30:36 PM
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Quote: jjritchieDon't play the Pass line or come bet, it's terrible odds. Let me explain.
[snip]
Took me a long time to figure that one out, but now the only way I play the line is if I am rolling.
It took you a long time to figure out something that isn't even correct?!?! What you're forgetting is that a Pass Line/Come bet wins on the very first roll when a '7' comes up. OTOH, your place bets LOSE.
So basically, a player will lose more money playing your way rather than simply sticking with Pass Line/Come bets.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
June 24th, 2013 at 8:03:51 PM
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Quote: Beethoven9th[It took you a long time to figure out something that isn't even correct?!?! What you're forgetting is that a Pass Line... bet wins on the very first roll when a '7' comes up. OTOH, your place bets LOSE.
Really?
My place bets come down when a natural is rolled on the PL come out?
Really?
Wanna rethink that one?
"What, me worry?"
June 24th, 2013 at 8:50:52 PM
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Quote: MrVWanna rethink that one?
I clearly stated Pass Line AND Come bets. Was it really necessary to edit out the "Come bet" part of that statement?
Fighting BS one post at a time!
June 24th, 2013 at 10:25:52 PM
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Yes, it was necessary.
Actually, it wasn't "necessary" but it was apt.
See, assume you are at a point where shooter just made his point, you have a come bet out on the felt, and it's a new come out roll.
A natural seven is rolled on the come out.
What happens to your come bet?
It goes down.
What happens to your place bets?
They stay up, as they're automatically off on the ensuing come out.
Please, show me where I am wrong in my analysis.
Actually, it wasn't "necessary" but it was apt.
See, assume you are at a point where shooter just made his point, you have a come bet out on the felt, and it's a new come out roll.
A natural seven is rolled on the come out.
What happens to your come bet?
It goes down.
What happens to your place bets?
They stay up, as they're automatically off on the ensuing come out.
Please, show me where I am wrong in my analysis.
"What, me worry?"
June 24th, 2013 at 10:33:51 PM
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Necessary to edit out the most important part of that post? OK...
Thanks for replying.
Thanks for replying.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
June 24th, 2013 at 10:35:57 PM
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See above clarification.
"What, me worry?"
June 24th, 2013 at 10:52:18 PM
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I agree that this should be interesting. Here's my full quote (in case you missed it):
So, MrV, you ignored the part where I said "a Pass Line/Come bet wins on the very first roll when a '7' comes up". (Since you're getting nitipicky here, let me point out that Come bets already on a number on the come-out are already past their "very first roll".)
In addition, when I stated that a Place bet loses, it's pretty much implied that it was working on the come-out. I didn't feel it was necessary to spell this out for the crowd, but I guess one person on this board needed me to. Sorry about that.
Quote: Beethoven9thQuote: jjritchieDon't play the Pass line or come bet, it's terrible odds. Let me explain.
Assume the table is $10 minimum, and 3/4/5 times odds.
If a 4/10 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $30 on the odds. If it pays out, you would win $70. However if you put $40 on the number, you win $78 ($2 for the buy).
If a 5/9 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $40 on the odds. If it pays out, you would win $70. However, if you put $50 on the number, you also win $70. Exact same.
If a 6/8 is the point, you put $10 on the line, $50 on the odds. If it pays out, you win $70. If your put $60 on the number, you also win $70. Exact same.
If you bet less than max odds, you make even less than you would if you put the money directly on the number.
Took me a long time to figure that one out, but now the only way I play the line is if I am rolling.
It took you a long time to figure out something that isn't even correct?!?! What you're forgetting is that a Pass Line/Come bet wins on the very first roll when a '7' comes up. OTOH, your place bets LOSE.
So basically, a player will lose more money playing your way rather than simply sticking with Pass Line/Come bets.
So, MrV, you ignored the part where I said "a Pass Line/Come bet wins on the very first roll when a '7' comes up". (Since you're getting nitipicky here, let me point out that Come bets already on a number on the come-out are already past their "very first roll".)
In addition, when I stated that a Place bet loses, it's pretty much implied that it was working on the come-out. I didn't feel it was necessary to spell this out for the crowd, but I guess one person on this board needed me to. Sorry about that.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
June 25th, 2013 at 1:52:32 AM
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It is true that a come bet has equal ev. as a pass line bet. But in order to have that great value, it takes into consideration the seven that rolls and losses all the other bets. So the true value of a come bet is the short roll. So who wants the short roll to win the argument???
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
June 25th, 2013 at 2:05:21 AM
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Quote: DeMangoIt is true that a come bet has equal ev. as a pass line bet. But in order to have that great value, it takes into consideration the seven that rolls and losses all the other bets. So the true value of a come bet is the short roll. So who wants the short roll to win the argument???
Whichever way you slice it, it's still better than what jjritchie had suggested.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
June 25th, 2013 at 6:25:50 AM
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As a wise member of our forum once put it ... I think Goatcabin was the guy... whenever confusion reigns about what to bet and when and all that, revert to looking at the EV of each bet. This can not be defeated and is a reality check against other considerations, which get complicated, aren't simple, and usually are a canard.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 26th, 2013 at 10:58:15 AM
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Here is how I play it without using come bets, which are a pain. Start the new shooter with Pass-odds and placing the 6 and 8. Then place each outside number AFTER each is rolled. So if a 9 is rolled after the point is established, place the 9, then a 10 is rolled so place the 10, etc. Some call it converted come bets. It will do as well or better than continuous come betting.
June 26th, 2013 at 11:02:32 AM
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Quote: dwmHere is how I play it without using come bets, which are a pain. Start the new shooter with Pass-odds and placing the 6 and 8. Then place each outside number AFTER each is rolled. So if a 9 is rolled after the point is established, place the 9, then a 10 is rolled so place the 10, etc. Some call it converted come bets. It will do as well or better than continuous come betting.
Um...no, it won't.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
June 26th, 2013 at 12:11:18 PM
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Have played many sessions with both continuous come-odds and placing it after rolled, no significant difference in my results. The 7 is never your friend with continous come betting anyway. But Beethoven is right as to lower overall house advantage with come betting.
