Jrourke
Jrourke
Joined: May 17, 2013
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May 17th, 2013 at 4:24:37 PM permalink
Hi guys,

I was hoping someone could answer the following regarding Craps at the Bellagio. I'm not chasing comps but would obviously like to maximise.

1) to get some decent comps everyone on the forums always say you need to have 4 hours play per day.
a) does this need to be 4 hours straight or could you get away with 1 hour in the morning, 1 hour in the afternoon and 2 hours at nigh?. Is there any benefit/penalties for splitting play time?
b) what is a playing day in Vegas? I.e, if you are betting 1am Sunday morning does that count as Saturday night or Sunday?

2) I'm arriving very late on my first night, and may not get in 4 hours. Am I better not handing over my players card not to drag down my average play time as I'd still like to gamble? Staying 4 days.

3) does the Bellagio count your full spread (minus odds I presume) as your average bet? I.e. if I bet $100 on pass line, $100 odds, $120 on 6, $120 on 8 and $10 any craps would equate my average bet as $350 or would it be less?

4) if I decide to play another game such ad BJ or slots for a short amount of time am I better not handing over my players card not to drag down my average play time/spend?

Thanks in advance for your responses.
J
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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May 17th, 2013 at 4:37:46 PM permalink
Quote: Jrourke


3) does the Bellagio count your full spread (minus odds I presume) as your average bet? I.e. if I bet $100 on pass line, $100 odds, $120 on 6, $120 on 8 and $10 any craps would equate my average bet as $350 or would it be less?

They do not count your odds. BTW, it is much better to take full 3x/4x/5x odds and to make come bets than to bet 6/8/any. Same amount on the table, much better odds.

If you are coming in with a bankroll of 50k or more, they will give you a much better deal if you contact them in advance than if you just show up betting at that level.
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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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May 17th, 2013 at 5:04:16 PM permalink
Four hours is more impressive than three hours but if you get too tired to think straight that fourth hour will be costly, so stop when you need to. A three hour session where you have your wits about you will impress everyone there more than a four hour session that is beyond your standing or alcohol tolerance.

Hand over your card right away at all times. It gains you nothing to withhold it. Even if its a short stint awaiting someone's arrival or departure or some event, use the card.

Black chips in play are always noted favorably, even if don't quite play to your full advantage... black chips get noticed.

ALL casinos have a Treasury Department determined day that starts at whatever time the casino designates in its IRS paperwork. Usually casinos designate four or three in the morning as the start of their "day" for Federal currency purposes. MOST casinos computer programs also know the same meaning of the word "day" for other purposes such as Comps, coupons, etc.
Jrourke
Jrourke
Joined: May 17, 2013
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May 17th, 2013 at 5:09:35 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

They do not count your odds. BTW, it is much better to take full 3x/4x/5x odds and to make come bets than to bet 6/8/any. Same amount on the table, much better odds.

If you are coming in with a bankroll of 50k or more, they will give you a much better deal if you contact them in advance than if you just show up betting at that level.



Thanks teliot, so I assume my average bet would be seen as $350 with either of the below?

a) $100 on pass line, $x odds, $120 on 6, $120 on 8 and $10 any craps.
b) $100 on pass line, $x odds, $100 come bet1, $100 come bet2, $30 any craps,.
Jrourke
Jrourke
Joined: May 17, 2013
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May 17th, 2013 at 5:14:56 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Hand over your card right away at all times. It gains you nothing to withhold it. Even if its a short stint awaiting someone's arrival or departure or some event, use the card.



Thanks Fleastiff for clarifying this wouldn't drag my average down over my trip.
Yo11
Yo11
Joined: May 15, 2013
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May 17th, 2013 at 8:45:07 PM permalink
Quote: teliot


If you are coming in with a bankroll of 50k or more, they will give you a much better deal if you contact them in advance than if you just show up betting at that level.



I agree. Call in ahead of time, get a host, and deposit your cash in the cage. Take out markers when you need them, and make it known how much you're down. It will save you from having to carry around cash/go to the ATM, and the casino will notice your play immediately.

If you're coming in late the first night, don't worry about gambling. First off, you'll be tired, and won't get the enjoyment out of your play (which is the most important part). Second, you'll be more likely to make silly mistakes which could cost you. Personally, I'd save that cash for a longer run at the tables on day 2. Your "average daily theoretical" (ADT) will be the same regardless of it you play 2 six hour sessions versus 3 four hour sessions. Plus, if you're playing at this level, a casino host is going to review your play, not a machine. In my experience, most casino hosts don't take it out against you for going to bed if you get in at 3 am :)
Yo field, yo come, both gunna get you some!
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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May 18th, 2013 at 7:34:56 PM permalink
Quote: Jrourke

Thanks Fleastiff for clarifying this wouldn't drag my average down over my trip.



As Fleastiff said, if you are playing black chip all the time, then always give them your card. But, if you would be playing BJ at $25 / hand, then I would not give them my card. That will definitely whack your avg bet rating, and your theoretical loss calculations.
If you are there for 4 days, that would be 3 nights, so they would be looking for around 12 hours of play for the whole trip. If you only get 2 or 3 hours in that first night, it will not be a big deal, if by the end of the trip you have 15 or 16 hours of play.
i have been told that ratings for players from out of state are calculated a bit differently from 'local' players. I have been told a local player should use their card every time, regardless of what level they are betting. For a local player, more time is better than a high average.

One final comment. giving the dealer $2,000 cash to buy into a game is noticeable. But getting a marker for $2,000 to draw against your casino credit line, or against cash you have on deposit, seems to carry more weight. Stay within your limits, but utilizing the markers seems to help your ratings.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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May 18th, 2013 at 8:04:54 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff


ALL casinos have a Treasury Department determined day that starts at whatever time the casino designates in its IRS paperwork. Usually casinos designate four or three in the morning as the start of their "day" for Federal currency purposes. MOST casinos computer programs also know the same meaning of the word "day" for other purposes such as Comps, coupons, etc.



Yeah not sure when Bellagio is, but CET properties in Vegas are 6am.

Cosmo is actually midnight?!?!?!
Jrourke
Jrourke
Joined: May 17, 2013
  • Threads: 2
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May 19th, 2013 at 2:35:11 PM permalink
Quote: Jrourke

1) to get some decent comps everyone on the forums always say you need to have 4 hours play per day.
a) does this need to be 4 hours straight or could you get away with 1 hour in the morning, 1 hour in the afternoon and 2 hours at nigh?. Is there any benefit/penalties for splitting play time?
b) what is a playing day in Vegas? I.e, if you are betting 1am Sunday morning does that count as Saturday night or Sunday?

2) I'm arriving very late on my first night, and may not get in 4 hours. Am I better not handing over my players card not to drag down my average play time as I'd still like to gamble? Staying 4 days.

3) does the Bellagio count your full spread (minus odds I presume) as your average bet? I.e. if I bet $100 on pass line, $100 odds, $120 on 6, $120 on 8 and $10 any craps would equate my average bet as $350 or would it be less?

4) if I decide to play another game such ad BJ or slots for a short amount of time am I better not handing over my players card not to drag down my average play time.



In summary this far I've taken the following. Thanks.

1) a) it doesn't matter if its 4 hours straight or split playing time.

1) b) unclear what MGM play hours are at the moment.

2) unless I'm getting some serious time in on the first night or until 1b) is clear it may be worth not using my card.

3) my average bet would be the spread minus any odds.

4) don't use my card if I bet low for a few hands of BJ. From my understanding any slots play is measured separately from my table play?
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
Joined: Oct 8, 2010
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May 19th, 2013 at 3:16:52 PM permalink
Quote: Jrourke

In summary this far I've taken the following. Thanks.

1) a) it doesn't matter if its 4 hours straight or split playing time.

1) b) unclear what MGM play hours are at the moment.

2) unless I'm getting some serious time in on the first night or until 1b) is clear it may be worth not using my card.

3) my average bet would be the spread minus any odds.

4) don't use my card if I bet low for a few hands of BJ. From my understanding any slots play is measured separately from my table play?




on 1a - This is correct, but most games(craps might be the worst) have issues with short sessions. While 4 1 hr sessions might be similar to 1 4hr session, don't think you can do 12 15 minute sessions and get the same rating. The shorting the session the more inaccurate it will be(ie 20 minutes might end up being 12 becaues the bit poss wasn't exact on times getting in/out.


My understanding is that MLife uses a 5 day window for a trip. I'm not sure if you would really hurt yourself by using your card the first night. If you are playing at the same average, I've assumed 20 hours at $350 over your trip looks better than 18 hours at $350. You still were at the hotel for X nights. You still used the room and didn't gamble(as far as they are concerned). If you are only playing for 15-60 minutes, then I probably wouldn't bother. More than an hour expected though and I think you would be missing out on some comps.




A few people mentioned above to get a host and I agree with this. They would be able to tell you a yes or no.

I also agree that you shouldn't use your card on other games where your bet size may be significantly smaller. $350/bet at craps and $100/bet at BJ would probably be fine(again ask the host to be sure). Going down to $15/bet BJ though is something I would avoid using your card on.

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