Other than CR, no other casino in Vegas has 100x?

Everytime I go to a casino I get asked for my social, if I haven't provided it previously.

Quote: klimate10

Everytime I go to a casino I get asked for my social, if I haven't provided it previously.

31 U.S.C. § 5311 et. seq. and the regulations promulgated there under - for the identification, reporting and gathering of information on suspicious activity.

Quote:

Title 31, also known as the Bank Secrecy Act (or Anti-Money Laundering program - AML program)
Suspicious Activity Report by Casino (SARC) - FinCEN Form 102

I go into a casino over 200 days a year, by design my activity is not suspicious enough to ask for a SS #.

Quote: Bohemian

I go into a casino over 200 days a year, by design my activity is not suspicious enough to ask for a SS #.

What is your biggest cashout in any one day?

I just left the Stratosphere and I colored up $3,000 at the cage. Before I left the craps table, I asked about how much I would have to win before they would report it to the IRS. The response was "we can't tell you."

I then said, "well if I win $1,000 you're not reporting that, right?"

The response was, "oh no you can win MUCH more than $1,000 before we will report it."

I once brought $20,600 to the table, and I had to fill out the forms. They told me not to bring more than $10,000 to the table again, so I haven't done that again.

But yes, that's all about money laundering, not about winnings.

In any case, I have never been asked for my social, but when I brought the $20,600, I had to fill out a bunch of forms, and I don't recall but I had to sign that form. I just don't remember if it had a social security number that I had to provide or not.

I know that for slot machines the numbers are very specific. And also if you win more than $1,000 from a $1 bet in a single event (like a fire bet).

But I will tell you that I have never won enough to have to sign anything. Just brought too much to begin with.

I will also tell you that I am not a lifetime winner. I am up for the year. At some casinos I am down for the year, though, but overall I am up.

I lost $126 tonight, so I had another losing night. I played crapless and lost $200, then I just gambled on someone else's roll at Palace Station and won $74. I was down about $600 on crapless and made a partial comeback, but I played until they closed the table at midnight.

I had some good rolls.

I bet a $1 hard eight, and the first roll after the bet, I rolled the hard eight. Said "parlay" and it went to ten. Immediately rolled another hard 8. So I said parlay again and it went to $100. Then I rolled 5-2 seven out. LOL.

I had rolled three hard 8's with no easy and three hard 6's with no easy on that same table very recently (all in ten rolls), so I was really hoping to get from $1 to $1000 in three rolls bam-bam-bam and I just didn't get that last roll. If it had been any other number besides an 8 or a 7 I would have taken the $100 down. So going for that and missing cost me. But I so wanted to get that one!! I've never gotten a $1 to $1000 on a hardway on my own bet, but I've rolled it for other people's bets.

My lifetime craps losses are four figures still, but they may be only a couple hundred bucks soon.

My biggest 1-day loss is (much) greater than my lifetime losses. That day I was absolutely gambling and not exploiting a controlled shot. I was betting huge just for thrills, no plan, no worries, just gambling. I still don't regret it and I've taken much bigger risks in life and lost, but it wasn't a failure of controlled shooting. It was just me having a good time doing some reckless high-stakes gambling. The bet amounts were so far out of the norm, there was no way to consider it anything but just straight gambling even if I were trying to do a controlled shot, luck was all I was counting on, and I was just chucking the dice. Also, my adrenaline was pumping way too hard to even attempt to get a controlled shot anyway. But I could have gotten lucky, I just didn't.

But that day I lost huge and fast!!! Since then, all my controlled shooting attempts at smaller bet amounts has been slowly erasing that one-day loss and also a couple of big gambles on other random shooters as well, and I think I'm close to making up for it. But it's taken almost 9 months since that day. This happened before I lost $2,000 or so and declared that I had "blown out my bankroll." That last couple thousand in losses still had me under $10,000 total at that point though. But I ran out of resources and had to go on pause at that time.

Quote: klimate10

Everytime I go to a casino, I cash out enough chips where the casino makes me give them a Social security number, so I am reported to the IRS.

On which IRS form is your cash out reported?

Quote: tringlomane

What is your biggest cashout in any one day?

And I would tell you why. I quoted Title 31. It is my responsibility to know what the casino AML policies are.

Quote:

...the IRS’ admission that it looks at social media pages ... that’s perfectly legal because social media pages are public and it was no surprise to him that tax collectors have been doing that. But now the IRS is claiming that once a person sends an email, they are relinquishing their expectation of privacy and those can be viewed as well.

Read more: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/04/11/irs-looking-at-facebook-twitter-pages-but-can-they-read-your-emails-too#ixzz2S3P2CipZ

Quote: klimate10

Ahigh, i ask this respectfully, and not in a comabtive manner...are you a lifetime winner at craps?

If you say yes, can you show me tax returns to prove that you are a winner, year in and year out?

I started with $3,100 today after losing $124 yesterday at the Strat. I made $100 at the Wynn. I then went back to the strat for crapless and they had JUST closed the table. I pulled out $100 at a time until I lost $500 (happened pretty fast). While I was losing the box was talking about how they wouldn't allow you to place a number after making max odds with 10x odds at that casino. The dealers were all moaning about how stupid it was, and the whole subject came up right off the bat .. anyway, so I pulled out my remaining $2,700 after I lost $500 and went on a chase-fest.

I got back to $3,100 and asked for a comp. I ate, and then I made it all back plus a couple of bucks.

I was trying to get that parlay from 1 to 1000 on the hard ways again. RIGHT as I was talking about it (but not betting it) I rolled hard-six back-to-back, the a 2-3 five, and another hard six. I didn't make money on ANY of them, just jokes with Rex at the time how the dice had a sick sense of humor to do that while I was talking about it and not betting it (I had been trying for a while to get it and kept missing).

IE: three hard sixes in four rolls. Dean was the box at the time, and he was me do the three hard sixes with no easy and then three hard eights with no easy all in ten throws just a few days ago.

Anyway, I ended up making just over $100 today. The reason I'm including the photos is in response to questions about my telling the truth. I know that people will now say that I am "bragging" and that's why I normally wouldn't post photos like this.

I would appreciate it if we could not go down the road about how I'm bragging. I had to chase $500 just to keep a $100 win from the Wynn.

The other thing about the Wynn was that Tommy came over and gave me all kind of shit about "all the way down" when I first started playing the game. I mean right out of the chute. And I know he had access to my name back there, but the way he called me "Aaron" it really sounded like he had an axe to grind.

I told them about how people had been talking about the Wynn giving players too much shit about all the way down, and how they were the worst. But anyway, I still managed to win a little bit and get the hell out of there. But they just really aren't friendly to me there! LOL.

I have all my others cash locked up in the mortgage, so I'm dialing back the risk. As evidenced from going a bit into chase mode today, I'm not really confident enough I won't lose to be chasing and hitting bet limits.

The most I had out on the felt at any moment was probably $200 to $300. So I wasn't doing huge stakes, but I had a hard time making a profit today.

Those aren't tax returns. But if you ever need a backer at craps, let's get rich together!

Ahigh, lets u and I hijack the 'why do people make side bets' thread.

Quote: klimate10

Ahigh, lets u and I hijack the 'why do people make side bets' thread.

You're evil, but I like that.

Quote: tringlomane

Yeah, most cashout info is to avoid laundering money. But if you win $5k+ in a poker tourney, I believe you are subject to a W2G. And I am not surprised by kilmate's story. Poker players asking for stakes from random people are often asking for a reason (i.e. they are losing players).

I've gotten W2Gs at poker tourneys for wins of $1200 and more, and if I got a table share of a bad beat jackpot of $600 or more I got a W2G as well.

Quote: klimate10

Ahigh, lets u and I hijack the 'why do people make side bets' thread.

You'd best be careful ...

Rule 7: "No hijacking: Try to keep threads on topic. If you want to veer off on a tangent, please make a new thread for it."

The conclusion to this thread, and klimate10 should be able to confirm, by 20x is plenty good enough!!!

If there were more 20x places that would be better to me than having more 100x places.

Having 1000x at Riviera to me was just a stunt, and a short-lived stunt at that.

Having and KEEPING 20x at a casino is a much better approach than doing 100x or 1000x and only keeping it for a short while.

klimate10 seems to want every last drop out of the house edge. So I would love to hear the rationalization of how it's worth the money to get anything better than 20x.

I would even prefer 10x odds at a place that treats me right than 20x odds at a place that's always crowded and bad service.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I've gotten W2Gs at poker tourneys for wins of $1200 and more, and if I got a table share of a bad beat jackpot of $600 or more I got a W2G as well.

Yes you would get a w2G in those poker situations. But even if you cashed out $1 million in chips at the cage you would not get a w2g

Quote: AlanMendelson

I've gotten W2Gs at poker tourneys for wins of $1200 and more, and if I got a table share of a bad beat jackpot of $600 or more I got a W2G as well.

But to bring this full circle, I don't think it's possible to generate a W-2G at a craps game unless you hit the Fire Bet or some other high-payout win (and there aren't that many side bets that offer these). A large session win by itself is not enough -- you need to have a single wager that meets both the 300x and $600 criteria. No standard bet on the dice table can generate a W-2G.

They ask for a social at the cage. They don't produce a w2 right there at the table.

deleted

Quote: klimate10

They ask for a social at the cage. They don't produce a w2 right there at the table.

MathExtremist is correct.

klimate10 - FYI - I have received several Form W-2Gs right at the craps table. In my experience, several casinos including LV Paris and LV Harrahs' pit bosses do not always know how to complete it correctly.

Quote: klimate10

They ask for a social at the cage. They don't produce a w2 right there at the table.

So that means that the cage issues the W2-G, right?

no. For example last year I lost a hundred thousand dollars at the Riviera playing craps. However I won a lot of money at the Santa Ana Star Casino in order to not show net profit at the end of the year where I would be taxed on the win as if I had a net win, I asked the Riviera for a win loss statement but they never gave me a w2 for the win that I saw. I get asked for my social is what I need to say

Won $400 today at Mandalay. I did three hard sixes with no easy again. It took six rolls this time, and I took ten and down on the first roll.



I am not a huge fan of Mandalay Bay, but they have changed a lot recently, and the experience was quite good overall.

The dealers at Mandalay were having a great time, and they didn't know who I was. They all agreed that I was a dealer. The stick man said, "I'm going to find out where this guy works. He knows too much not to be a dealer."

Great fun though.

This will be my last photo update to sort of "prove" what I'm doing. Hopefully I've earned some trust from the skeptics. I'd like to be able people to just trust what I'm saying and earn the respect that I have no incentive to make up bullshit.

And even though I didn't win it, I'm more proud of doing 3 hard sixes in so few rolls AGAIN today after having been doing that on a pretty frequent basis lately.

I will win that $1 to $1000 soon enough!

Getting asked for a SSN at the cage or at the table does NOT mean there is a W2G being generated. In my experience, you know if and when a W2G is generated since the casino will hand a copy of the W2G to you on the spot. That should only happen at the table or slot machine when it is required due to the amount of the win transaction. I know of no instance when a W2G is issued by the cage when you cash in your chips.

[On a historical note, some years ago, the IRS wanted the casinos to issue W2Gs based on the amounts being cashed at the cage and the casino industry fought this. The casino industry succeeded in convincing the IRS that to issue a W2G simply based on the cage transaction is not appropriate since this is not an indication of what the player has won--due to the fact that the player, prior to showing up at the cage, could have sustained losses during the course of his play and bought in multiple times.]

As for the remark about a W2G being issued at a craps table--the only situation in which that should occur is if there is a large win on the Fire Bet (or alternatively, a Sharpshooter Bet--which is a similar kind of side bet).

A Win/Loss Statement is not a substitute for a W2G. And your SSN is not needed for the casino to issue a Win/Loss Statement to you.

Separate from a transaction involving a W2G, the reason the casino will request that you provide a SSN is in connection with a Cash Transaction Report (CTR) that is required for cash transactions totaling more than $10,000 within 24 hours (though most casinos define their 24 hours as starting and stopping at a particular hour so that it is not always a "continuous rolling" 24 hours).

The CTR can occur either at the cage when you cash in your chips or it can occur at the table if your buy-in triggers the reporting threshold.

The CTR is NOT an indication of a win and, to my knowledge, it is not used by the IRS as an indication of what you should have declared when you file your tax return. Though I highly suspect if a player has generated one or more CTRs from casinos throughout the year and that player fails to show any gambling activity on his 1040, then there is probably a high likelihood the IRS could question the return.

There are a couple of casinos that do not ask for my SSN when I know that there is going to be a CTR filed on me since in those cases the casino already has my SSN on file. However, I was surprised one time when I was asked for my SSN when I knew that particular casino already had my SSN due to a previous transaction. I was told by that casino that they do not keep the SSN "on file" and they ask for the SSN every time it is needed. That was an exception for me, since I am fairly confident other casinos that have needed it will keep my SSN on file (which may lead to the question as to who and how many people have access to this information).

In some cases, I've also been asked to provide a photo ID along with my SSN.

In my experience, the casino may ask--but not always--for a player's card (if you've not already provided it) if they think your separate sessions within the 24 hour period is likely to trigger the cumulative amount of more than $10,000--since the casino wants to be in the position of accurately tracking the cash amounts. But I've never been asked for the SSN unless and until the "more than $10,000" is reached.

If you do not provide the SSN, then the casino will cut you off from playing and the casino will file a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) on you.

I just noticed, I don't have my Social Security card with the number. How do they know you are giving the correct number? Actually, perhaps I should ask, since/if you don't have proof of your number are you denied your winnings?

Quote: NokTang

I just noticed, I don't have my Social Security card with the number. How do they know you are giving the correct number? Actually, perhaps I should ask, since/if you don't have proof of your number are you denied your winnings?

recent experience with me has shown there is some system available to indicate a person is giving a false SSN

Quote: odiousgambit

recent experience with me has shown there is some system available to indicate a person is giving a false SSN

There is a database of falsely provided SSNs, its instantly available electronically. There is also a way for them to know what portions of your number would be if you were from a certain state.

Recapitulation:

The "Odds Factor" at craps is often a way that casinos compete with each other, but the casino's advertisements on their marquees often have little relation to actual play at the tables.

Although 2x is often viewed as an ungenerously low figure, popular with "Sweat The Money" joints or monopoly operations such as cruise ships, there are many 2x games wherein the players are content and a good deal of money is wagered.

Most games seem to be at 5x or its virtually identically edged 3x4x5x figure. Some games are 10x and some are 20x. A few casinos often advertise 100x craps games but this is generally viewed as a casino advertisement rather than the serious commitment it is. Very few players ever take advantage of 100x much less do so on a sustained or frequent basis.

Most players seem to actually play at the 2x, 3x or 5x levels irrespective of the odds factors that are offered. Even the short lived special of 1,000x at the Riviera had few actual takers. Players generally play at a level they are comfortable with even if dealers remind them that the mathematically pure rule is to always make your pass line bet at a level that will allow you to make the maximum odds bet that the game allows.

Dealers hawking maximum odds are being mathematically correct but its probably more of a sales presentation with most players since actual players seem to rarely make full odds bets.

Actually the casinos don't care if you give a phony number. They're obligation is to ask you and to be reasonably sure that you gave the right number. If you didn't well, they did their job.

The issue comes when "they don't know you" and you win a jackpot. Then they need assurance that you are who you are with a government ID. I was at Caesars about a year ago when a local in the high limit slots area hit for $50K but didnt have proper ID -- only a temporary Nevada license because he had lost his wallet. NO MONEY for him until he came back with a proper license or passport. It caused a big stink for a few minutes but there was nothing the local could do but go home and return another day. they took his photo there at the machine to confirm the ID of the person who comes back with ID later. If he didn't show up with govt ID there would be no money for him.

Quote: NokTang

I don't have my Social Security card with the number.

Is it not necessary that you have a Social Security card with the number.

At least where I play, you are required to possess a government-issued photo ID in a casino--though it is possible there may be some states where that may not be required, but I doubt it. In my case, neither my Driver's License nor my Passport includes my SSN. I have never been asked to provide proof of my SSN. Just verbally tell them.

Keep in mind, we are talking two things here. When necessary and when asked, you may be required to tell the casino verbally your SSN. In addition, expect to also be required to furnish a photo ID which does not necessarily include your SSN.

I also have never been asked by a casino to sign a W-9 which is the IRS form for Request of Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN). I suppose if a casino needed something to support the SSN that you provided, they could ask for you to sign a W-9 which includes your certification that the TIN is correct. But that has never happened to me.

Quote: AlanMendelson

The issue comes when "they don't know you" and you win a jackpot.

You will not be denied your winnings if you fail to provide proper ID. However, they may delay giving you the winnings until you return to the casino with the proper ID.

I've been in casino golf outings for invited players where I've won cash or other prizes. Each time they ask for my SSN even though the amounts have sometimes been less than $1,200 and even less than $600. If fact, I've been told that in Indiana (where I most often play) regardless of the size of the prize or even if the prize is not cash, they must obtain the SSN since it is required by the state gaming commission. In addition, you also must show a photo ID.

In one instance when I won a prize at a casino golf outing, I did not have my driver's license with me. Just left home without it. Even though this casino knows me well and I have furnished my SSN to them on previous occasions, they would NOT allow me to claim my prize without my photo ID--as well as telling them my SSN.

They said they would hold the prize (I think for up to seven days) until I returned with the ID. The casino is a two-hour drive from my home and I asked if my wife (who was at home) could fax them a copy of my driver's license, and they said that was not acceptable. I was required to actually show them my ID. They did not copy the ID--they only needed to see it. Even though they knew me well.

Quote: FleaStiff

The "Odds Factor" at craps is often a way that casinos compete with each other, but the casino's advertisements on their marquees often have little relation to actual play at the tables.

Although 2x is often viewed as an ungenerously low figure, popular with "Sweat The Money" joints or monopoly operations such as cruise ships, there are many 2x games wherein the players are content and a good deal of money is wagered.

What about casinos with multiple Craps Tables? All of the ones I have seen have had the same Rules, but I'm wondering, do casinos with multiple Craps Tables occasionally offer a player more Free Odds if he/she plays at a higher limit?

Wheeling Island Racetrack and Casino has 2x Odds, and I really don't mind. I know that the HE on the overall play (for those who consider it as one bet after the point is established) would be lower with more odds, but then the minimum might be more than $5.00, and the money exposed would likely be more than $15.00.

I'd probably go 3x-4x-5x at a $5.00 Minimum, but I don't think I would do 10x at a Minimum higher than $3.00. I just like rolling the dice and the social aspect with the dealers, and I haven't even played in a bit over a month, but I have no interest in winning or losing any great amount of money.

Quote: Mission146

do casinos with multiple Craps Tables occasionally offer a player more Free Odds if he/she plays at a higher limit?

No. Usually most casinos just have a certain odds factor and thats it. Even at Casino Royale they may do a minimum bet is 3.00 but that only gets you 5x odds. You want 100x odds you do a line bet that is higher.

In general casinos change table limits far more than anything else, they don't fiddle much with odds. Why should they? The players may ask about 100 odds but upon learning that its 10x, the player is still likely to play at his regular 2x or 5x bets that he is comfortable with even though he will gripe all night long.

Quote: odiousgambit

recent experience with me has shown there is some system available to indicate a person is giving a false SSN

In my new line of work I deal with contractors a lot. I have access to the IRS.gov website to use as a "tax pro". Basically I can put any persons name and the SSN they provide into the database and it will tell me right away if it is a match/ valid. I'd imagine the casinos may have similar access.

Quote: FleaStiff

No. Usually most casinos just have a certain odds factor and thats it. Even at Casino Royale they may do a minimum bet is 3.00 but that only gets you 5x odds. You want 100x odds you do a line bet that is higher.

In general casinos change table limits far more than anything else, they don't fiddle much with odds. Why should they? The players may ask about 100 odds but upon learning that its 10x, the player is still likely to play at his regular 2x or 5x bets that he is comfortable with even though he will gripe all night long.

Thanks for the answer, FleaStiff!

That definitely makes sense! For example, if I played at a 10x Odds Table with a Minimum of $5.00, then I'd probably just play it as a 3x-4x-5x Table. If the minimum is $10, then I'd just play it as a 2x Odds Table, and if the minimum was $15, I wouldn't play the game because I'm not taking single odds, but don't like having more than $35-$40 on any one outcome.