FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14434
February 15th, 2017 at 8:04:20 AM permalink
>>>>>Not nonsense assuming you can realize that different people have different perspectives.
Agreed.
Some people are there for free drinks, merriment and a hope of making money, without regard to how statistically likely it is that they will indeed make money much less keep any money they do make.

>>>>I have told the Wizard to his face that some of his advice on how to bet rubs me the wrong way.
Just about everything rubs me the wrong way, but that is totally irrelevant.

>>>>guys who follow his advice based purely on mathematics and "in the long run..."
>>>>are actually a MINORITY of craps players. I know because I see craps players
>>>>all day long, and VERY FEW OF THEM bet the way that the Wizard or you guys describe.
That may be. A more interesting question is how many of them do it due to booze, boredom or 'the buzz'?

>>>>In your myopic worlds, collectively, these people are just wrong.
In the myopic world of the casino all people are just one thing: losers.

>>>>In my world, they aren't. They are legitimate craps players having fun playing the game.
Good!!
>>>> THEY define how the game is played, not your mathematical approach to how "best" play the game.
>>>> The REAL world is them, not you!
Reality trumps ivory tower anytime. When teh dice come to rest, that is reality! It is reality for the drunk as well as the sober, for the smart as well as the dumb, for the math inclined as well as for the math impaired. For those who eat peanuts as well as for those who eat caviar. For those with self control and for those who are wildly impulsive.

>>>>And they play the game in a way that you guys think is wrong.
Yep and sometimes in a way the dealers think is wrong.

>>>>As a matter of perspective, this forum, and the Wizard himself, are generally
>>>>against the idea of people "foolishly" letting their money be lost in the casino.
True.
Remember perhaps the absolutely BEST advice I ever heard a dealer give to a bettor:
"That bet your wife just told you to make is a foolish sucker bet and you should not do it, but it might win and if it does, you will NEVER hear the end of it."
I'm sure that even the Wizard who is prone to carry the math out to sixteen decimal places would agree that marital harmony trumps mathematics at all times and in all circumstances.

>>>>> the dogma that's shared on here for craps is that you want to make the process
>>>>> of losing all of your money be as slow and drawn out as possible,
Oh NO. Not at all. We want to make the process of winning all of the casinos money to be very quick, just like every other player. Its just that we accept the reality that ... well, as you say... real world!!

>>>>> by lowering the edge to almost give you a false sense of hope that you could win.
No, by lowering the edge to give us a chance to win and walk away rather than win and stay.

>>>>>Call me what you want,
We won't do any name calling here.
>>>>>but all I am saying is there is more than one valid way of losing your money.
AGREED. When the dealer gave that best advice, you can be sure the husband followed it and he lost his money, but he still bet properly.
mdh
mdh
Joined: Feb 23, 2011
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 169
February 15th, 2017 at 11:27:00 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

>>>>>Not nonsense assuming you can realize that different people have different perspectives.
Agreed.
Some people are there for free drinks, merriment and a hope of making money, without regard to how statistically likely it is that they will indeed make money much less keep any money they do make.

>>>>I have told the Wizard to his face that some of his advice on how to bet rubs me the wrong way.
Just about everything rubs me the wrong way, but that is totally irrelevant.

>>>>guys who follow his advice based purely on mathematics and "in the long run..."
>>>>are actually a MINORITY of craps players. I know because I see craps players
>>>>all day long, and VERY FEW OF THEM bet the way that the Wizard or you guys describe.
That may be. A more interesting question is how many of them do it due to booze, boredom or 'the buzz'?

>>>>In your myopic worlds, collectively, these people are just wrong.
In the myopic world of the casino all people are just one thing: losers.

>>>>In my world, they aren't. They are legitimate craps players having fun playing the game.
Good!!
>>>> THEY define how the game is played, not your mathematical approach to how "best" play the game.
>>>> The REAL world is them, not you!
Reality trumps ivory tower anytime. When teh dice come to rest, that is reality! It is reality for the drunk as well as the sober, for the smart as well as the dumb, for the math inclined as well as for the math impaired. For those who eat peanuts as well as for those who eat caviar. For those with self control and for those who are wildly impulsive.

>>>>And they play the game in a way that you guys think is wrong.
Yep and sometimes in a way the dealers think is wrong.

>>>>As a matter of perspective, this forum, and the Wizard himself, are generally
>>>>against the idea of people "foolishly" letting their money be lost in the casino.
True.
Remember perhaps the absolutely BEST advice I ever heard a dealer give to a bettor:
"That bet your wife just told you to make is a foolish sucker bet and you should not do it, but it might win and if it does, you will NEVER hear the end of it."
I'm sure that even the Wizard who is prone to carry the math out to sixteen decimal places would agree that marital harmony trumps mathematics at all times and in all circumstances.

>>>>> the dogma that's shared on here for craps is that you want to make the process
>>>>> of losing all of your money be as slow and drawn out as possible,
Oh NO. Not at all. We want to make the process of winning all of the casinos money to be very quick, just like every other player. Its just that we accept the reality that ... well, as you say... real world!!

>>>>> by lowering the edge to almost give you a false sense of hope that you could win.
No, by lowering the edge to give us a chance to win and walk away rather than win and stay.

>>>>>Call me what you want,
We won't do any name calling here.
>>>>>but all I am saying is there is more than one valid way of losing your money.
AGREED. When the dealer gave that best advice, you can be sure the husband followed it and he lost his money, but he still bet properly.

Happy wife Happy life esp. on vacation, esp. in vegas, esp. at the craps table.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14434
February 15th, 2017 at 12:09:06 PM permalink
Quote: mdh

Happy wife Happy life esp. on vacation, esp. in vegas, esp. at the craps table.

I used this only as a vivid example of how mathematical edge is not the only determinant of game played or betting strategy.

There is no doubt that dealer gave the right advice and no doubt that several other factors can affect decision making even if someone is very skilled at that 2 plus 2 stuff.

Still, there is an advantage to The Wizards viewpoint of always being on the Dark Side even though its "advantage" is a teensy one. Its sort of like that Camel's nose parable. A teensy bit of an advantage still has value to it.

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