Conflict at the Silverton today

Quote: Wizard

First, I have to say "shame on you" for making a hard way bet. That is a sucker bet. Period. Even assuming you can influence the dice, your advantage would be greater on the lower house edge bets, not to mention the reduced volatility. If you must bet the hard ways, save it for Australia or the UK, where they pay 7.5 and 9.5.

Second, I'm confused what happened to the other $30. I'm assuming it was a last-second bet and they didn't have time to give it to you before the 6-2?

Third, while the dealer certainly has some fault here, I think you overreacted. I'm sure if a seven were thrown you would have been given the $30. I don't know craps terminology well enough to say if "press" means to double a bet exactly. Personally, I would asked for a friendly clarification of what the word "press" means and leave it at that.

About the sucker bet, I'll just accept your condemnation. But I do believe I have an edge on the hard 8. I wasn't betting all the hardways. Just the hard 8 with my 4242 set. I wasn't parlaying either, so the bet amount wasn't more than 5% of my total on the table .. meaning the combined edge was still low at 0.5% total edge/roll or lower.

I view the entire group of bets as a single bet/edge, and I like the extra pay when I hit my target which is one of 36 possible outcomes.

It wasn't until they began to try to pay the bet that they took a nickel off from the $120 and added it to one of the six green chips and set it "aside" to give it back to me without pay. But the chip was not returned to me before I threw the dice. A nickel of it was on the bet and a quarter of it was in the dealer's hand at the time the dice hit the felt.

I did over-react. I admit that. There were many things that led up to this over previous visits as well, though.

My conclusion as a result of this entire thing is just that I may have to start playing somewhere else. If the dealers hadn't been making mistakes to begin with, none of this would have happened. I know that's sort of deflecting blame away from myself, but I have made this point to them before: I expect them to get it right the first time, and they aren't living up to my expectations, so I need to just move on and accept that.

My whole thing is that I didn't even want to stop and clarify. I want as many events in the shortest period of time as possible. Every time I have to stop and clarify and what not that does not help me. It just upsets me. I have an empty table for a reason. I want the dice to keep moving!!!

Quote: Ahigh

It wasn't until they began to try to pay the bet that they took a nickel off from the $120 and added it to one of the six green chips and set it "aside" to give it back to me without pay. But the chip was not returned to me before I threw the dice. A nickel of it was on the bet and a quarter of it was in the dealer's hand at the time the dice hit the felt.

I was probably 75% on your side to start with Ahigh since the press is always a double is complete bullshit. Any table I have ever been on and a roll develops many of the players are continually asking for a 1 unit press on a win which is a raise of their original bet. A longer roll can have a bet of $6 work its way up to $30 on the 6 or 8 quite often.

I think the part I quoted from your last post puts you in the wrong though. The dealer had clearly not put the whole bet on the number. He may have misunderstood your directions but had indicated quite clearly what he thought they were. He didn`t return your $30 because he needed to make a change on your bet because it had $5 too much sitting on it. Chill out remember gamling is for fun even if you think you can make a profit. If as an AP it becomes a job that you hate get another job.

If it makes it any simpler, I accept that I was even 100% in the wrong here. But the point of the whole thing was that I expected more from them than what they delivered.

So it's not even about right and wrong. I'm putting my foot down with them and I am saying it's just not good enough for me to go there any more.

That's what I told them at the time, and that's what this amounts to.

Even if they were 100% right and I was 100% wrong, I was very unhappy, and as I told them at the time, I only go there to have fun. And the whole thing was not fun!

So I'm done there.

Just done.

It was so NOT fun for me enough, that I had a few seconds as I walked to my car I felt like I didn't even want to play craps at all any more.

It was that much of a bad experience.

I flipped off the cameras in the Elevator and said "you happy Silverton you got your $35?!?!" I'm sure nobody heard that as I was closed off in the Elevator, but whatever.

I told the cage girls I was never coming back. I told the crew at the dice table I was never coming back.

I think I'm just going to have to hold to my word on that.

I'm done with the Silverton.

Nobody fault even. They just are not holding up to my expectations for being able to deal a fair game to me at a speed that I am happy with on an empty table!!!

You where trying to steal my lucky 8's Ahigh!! Lol. Sorry things didn't go better for you. It is bad pr when the house makes a mistake and refuses to do anything to correct it.

Quote: Ahigh

I don't buy that shit!!! And that's the instant I got pissed off.

I'm no sucker!!!! And that goes for trying to take down my $5 hard eight while we're on the subject.

I'm PISSED!!!

Suggested, simple command, to avoid ambiguity:

"Full pressure,"

or even

"Full press"

or

"Press it all the way up."

"Press the eight to $270"

"Take the eight to $270"

"Make the eight look like $270"

Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On...

Being angry all day is a waste of life...and we all only have so much...

Holy smokes Ahigh, you got the Wiz to comment on a craps thread!

Three mistakes were made on a table with one player and 3 bets on the felt. Even a bad break in crew is better than that. I like to play on a table by myself too, I like the dice to move quickly, and I will make bets after the dice are out to me. However, I understand there can be no ambiguity in the bet that I make late.

Based on what you have written, I would not consider your bet to have been ambiguous. But there has to be a reason why they handled it as they did, and perhaps why they took down the hardway 8 on the Come out roll as well. Could it be they were looking to get a reaction out of you?

Quote: Ahigh

the bet amount wasn't more than 5% of my total on the table .. meaning the combined edge was still low at 0.5% total edge/roll or lower.

I view the entire group of bets as a single bet/edge

This makes about as much mathematical sense as "hedging" your craps bets. Which means it does not make sense at all.

Quote: Jimbo

This makes about as much mathematical sense as "hedging" your craps bets. Which means it does not make sense at all.

He also believes he has an edge on the hard 8 bet.

Quote: Ahigh

About the sucker bet, I'll just accept your condemnation. But I do believe I have an edge on the hard 8.

And he throws more hard 10's than he should. And Ace/Deuce I think too. I'm not sure if they are all from the same set though...

ZCore13

Have to agree here completely... "PRESS 150" is typical or "PARLAY". A learning experience. But SOOPOO's ? about the $30 sticks in my craw, as the Dealer should have simply added the stack to your bet, then figured it out after the roll, "The Chips talk", at most craps tables, regardless of how announced.

Could be the girl on the table distracted the break ins.

I find it interesting how low the expectations are of dealers based on many of the responses here. The price I pay by playing the game isn't for the privilege of being able to run my own game, essentially with the house just being a bank of money to take the other side of my bets. I'm paying for the service of them to run their own game. To me, that means that a dealer, in theory, should not make mistakes. In practice obviously they do, which is fine. In those cases, I believe the onus is on the house to make it right, not on the player to have to sharpen his attention lest he be slighted again. Again, we all know how things really work, and your best defense is a good offense, but to justify it by saying the dealers make minimum wage and don't care about doing a good job, in my opinion, contributes towards the complacency that allows mediocrity to persist.

I would take it a step further and say that he should be responsible for recognizing a customer's intent, not just acting like a human computer, if it is reasonable to do so. If I walked up to a bank teller and asked to withdraw more than what was in my checking account, I would expect them to inform me of it, not give me the money and then charge me the overdraft fee. In this case, the dealer may have technically been correct if the official definition of "press" is double the bet., but given the circumstances (6 greens), Ahigh's intent was clearly to add $150 to the 8.

It sounds like in a vacuum, Ahigh overreacted here, but I can sympathize with poor service time and time again culminating in a one time fit of anger that is unproportionate to the very last act which caused it. Of course, a customer is free to take their business elsewhere and it sounds like Ahigh may do just that. It's just unfortunate that it has to come to that, IMO.

Im sorry if this was mentioned before, but if you are a regular, and the dealers know you, why didnt they just give you the extra $35??? I'd be pissed too, what is $35 to the casino???

never kill your vibe behind 30 bucks, and never let the dice fly without a conformation that YOUR BETS are proper. Forget the wavy table talk.. Say "270". there's no confusion in that.

And as far as tipping... If it went to the actual dealers on the table with me, it would be okay. But because most crews pool the tips with other crews, it gives me all the justification for "not" tipping... If they will side with another crew who is a dipstick for cash, their loyalty is with him.. No cash kiss my ***.

When I hear players talking about their dealer relationships I think about that scene from the movie Jerry Maguire

"all I want to know is.... Who's comin' with me?!?!?"

Exit Lonely shooter flipping birds

Guaranteed they would have swept it !! Thats what I said before. Must always get those bets in on time !!!! Save your own ass.

DO NOT PLAY THERE EVER AGAIN!! When they lose all of their players that will speak volumes. Your money is worth more than that.

That is why I do not play games that are at the mercy of the stealers, Cheaters, I mean dealers. Play a game that removes the dealers and you will have better opportunities to WIN and make $$$$
There is no shred of doubt in my mind that had it been a seven the dealers would NOT have given you change. The change should have been made before the roll completed if they are quik accurate dealers you are dealing with, I can bet the greens were laying there with no change after the dice stopped.
Anytime you have to contend with another human making the call as to wether you win or not then you have already lost with no chance of any other.

Neva would they say ooops. They are trained elephants standing behind the table, watch as they swing their limbs about like an elephant trunk all the while their bodies staying in place. :) The higher ups would bring out the whip and assault them in front of you.

Quote: TheWolf713

And as far as tipping... If it went to the actual dealers on the table with me, it would be okay. But because most crews pool the tips with other crews, it gives me all the justification for "not" tipping... If they will side with another crew who is a dipstick for cash, their loyalty is with him.. No cash kiss my ***.

The Silverton is one of the few places that go for their own. Tips on that table are split between exactly 4 people.

Being able to tip specific people was a big part of what I liked about that place.

It's just time to move on for me, is all. It's a very sad moment for me, but oh well.

Ahigh, so where will your new

Quote: Ahigh

It's a very sad moment for me, but oh well.

Did you cash out your comps?

I'm searching for a new home, yes. This morning I randomly hit the Rio for $137 profit -- but all gambling on other shooters. I am going to stop doing craps at lunch and instead switch to morning sessions and work through lunch and spend the evenings with the family.

For my routine this is a good thing. There aren't too many places I can get to as quick as the Silverton, so switching my routine opens me up to a lot more places.

Another weird thing happened last night, though. I brought home Dickey's BBQ for the family last night and had two big bags of food in my hands and left my car outside and unlocked overnight instead of in the garage and locked and someone got in my car, went through all my shit and took my work badge that I left in my car.

What was weird was that they didn't take ANYTHING else, including casino chips (about $4 worth of single chips) money (I had about $4 in quarters and change in the coin/change area) and I also had some 24k gold plated tungsten balls (1" tungsten balls). I notified security at the office about the theft of my badge and told them all of the details.

I know that some people have warned me about being a target making my information available online. Those comments were appropriate and good advice. And I honestly do not think it was anyone from online coming out to get me. But it was definitely weird what was and wasn't taken from my car, and it was also a good thing that it wasn't worse than it was (IE: vandalism, or forced entry breaking a window and what-not).

Needless to say, I am no longer going to leave my work badge or my tungsten balls in my car.

Just weird, though. Very weird.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Did you cash out your comps?

I had just recently liquidated $120 worth of comps on Friday April 12th on electronic roulette, but I think I still have $30-60 worth or so that I earned the most recent week. I have no plans to liquidate any other coupons or comps with them at all.

I wondered why you were playing craps during lunch anyway.
A guy in your new situation should have been home motorboating.
Priorities man, then get back to the show.
Trying to make you look good but you gotta help me a little bit.

I've lost my cool at casinos sometimes and it isn't a pleasant experience for myself or anyone else. I'm usually always good natured at a casino and never get into an argument with anyone.

The snap I remember most is a misdeal at Blue Heron playing 4CP. Dealer skipped a hand who had money at the table. I noticed it before the deal was completed but rather than back the hand up and take my cards and pass it to the correct position, the hand went on. The player to my left hit 4 5s and was paid $1000 - my $1000. The pit just shrugged and said "sorry". I was very mad, said some very bad words to the dealer (who felt bad and should have felt bad) and just left and didn't go back thre for a very long time.

At craps, you are arguing over a $5 dollar difference. And yeah, the dealer erred, absolutely. And so did the pit. They should have given you the benefit of the doubt and paid you for the $270 8. You were right, they were wrong.

But you aren't the typical player, Ahigh. Most people who are betting $270 on an 8 are not playing for $100 wins and losses. They're playing big money. You're playing the edge. And you tend to fly off the handle a bit more than the average crap player.

Tip more. If you're playing green/black action, they are going to expect at least red in tips and perhaps even green. Heck, I'm a lowlife flea betting minimums but will always tip red at the end of my session, win or lose, as I am local. They will appreciate your action and will endeavor to be more accurate. When dealers are taking down hard 8s when you are throwing easy 6s, the dealers are green. That means that you, as a player, (as always) have the responsbility to watch your bets and make sure that your bets are accurately booked. You're experienced. You know that.

When I play craps, I make sure my bets are booked (and everyone else's too) before I throw the dice. I'll just tell the dealer to book the bet. That prevents hands from going out on the table while the dice is in the air and prevents disputes like the ones you had. It slows the game down. It makes the game more accurate.

Quote: Ahigh

I'm searching for a new home, yes. This morning I randomly hit the Rio....

Haven't been to the Rio for several years. How was it? First place I hit the fire bet for 5 and 6 numbers.

Quote: boymimbo

I've lost my cool at casinos sometimes and it isn't a pleasant experience .

]

The last time I got mad was about 7 years ago.
I was in line at the cage at the MGM and
finally got to the front and a Japanese business
man in a suit came walking up and passed right
by me to the open window. This infuriated me
and I started yelling 'HEY JAP' at him and he had
to hear me and never showed it. I was yelling at him
and security was eyeing me and I thought I better
shut up. When he left the window I yelled HEY about
3 feet from his ear and he never even looked or
acknowledged my existence. Prick bastard..

Quote: Ahigh

But I do believe I have an edge on the hard 8.

Come on Aaron!!! You are joking, right??? Next time I'm in Vegas I'll come to your craps emporium, and book your hard 8 bets! Since you think you have an edge we can just play by regular craps rules and regular craps odds. If you have an edge, then you will win! I KNOW you don't, so I'll book that action!

As far as your dispute with the Silverton people, what you are doing is referred to as "biting your nose to spite your face'. I know you feel as though the Silverton is your 'home course'. I believe if you end your relationship with them it will hurt you more than it will the Silverton.

Quote: SOOPOO

I believe if you end your relationship with them it will hurt you more than it will the Silverton.

I wonder what they call him in the breakroom at the
Silverton. I can guarantee its not 'Here comes Aaron
Hightower, the expert in all things craps', like he thinks.

I've been going to casinos since 1976. I never got mad at anyone at a game. I did get mad at housekeeping at Caesars when about five years ago over New Year's Weekend we couldnt get our room made up -- no sheets, no towels, nothing -- for two days because the casino was so crowded and they were so disorganized. But besides that I never had a problem, or if there was a "dispute" it was immediately handled to my satisfaction.

Oh... I did get mad at a Dont Player who ran up to my table just as I was going to throw the dice during a roll that had been going on for almost 15 minutes and she yelled out "green chip on the SEVEEEEEEEEEEEEN." I did not seven out, but I looked at her at the other end of the table and said "GO TO ANOTHER TABLE. NOW." And she did. LOL

Quote: AlanMendelson

I've been going to casinos since 1976. I never got mad at anyone at a game. I did get mad at housekeeping

Did you leave your toothbrush out? They probably scrubbed the toliet bowl with it.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I've been going to casinos since 1976. I never got mad at anyone at a game.

I've been going since 76 also and never got mad
at a game either. Its really not worth it. Especially
in the 70's. Security was a lot different then, they
didn't read you the trespass act, the pounded the
riot act into your head. Not kidding, they'd throw
you out the front door onto your face on the sidewalk.

Quote: EvenBob

I wonder what they call him in the breakroom at the
Silverton. I can guarantee its not 'Here comes Aaron
Hightower, the expert in all things craps', like he thinks.

Projecting a little bit today are we? I enjoyed reading your comment where you called someone a JAP.

Quote: SOOPOO

Come on Aaron!!! You are joking, right??? Next time I'm in Vegas I'll come to your craps emporium, and book your hard 8 bets! Since you think you have an edge we can just play by regular craps rules and regular craps odds. If you have an edge, then you will win! I KNOW you don't, so I'll book that action!

As far as your dispute with the Silverton people, what you are doing is referred to as "biting your nose to spite your face'. I know you feel as though the Silverton is your 'home course'. I believe if you end your relationship with them it will hurt you more than it will the Silverton.

Can someone run chi-squared on expected number of whats on the top of my set versus every other outcome? I think my current ratio is 1 in 28.5 for what's on the top of my set.

Combined that with 1 in 6.35 or lower for the seven, and yeah, I think that's a player edge even if I have more than expected number of easy ways.

The simulator also showed I have a player edge on the hard 8 flat betting it for all 3398 rolls.

And of course it's all theory, but the data is there my friend.

Just doing a quick test:

Observed distibution:

Hard 8: Observed: 123, expected 97.16
Everything else: Observed 3275, expected 3398

p-value 0.007819

My numbers may be one or two off, this if from memory as I don't have my software where I am now.

As far as the relationship with the Silverton folks, I wasn't kicked out, so if it really hurts me, I can always change my mind assuming they will take me back. I have told them that this is not about a single person or a personal issue or even a single event. Just time for me to move on.

I think it's best for me too, it's not just the result of one incident. I had warned them previously effectively that I am not happy with how they are fumbling around when I told them I expected more of them... If they improve their setup to my satisfaction I will come back. It's not a personal thing at all!

With this p-value, there's a 1 in 127 chance that what's on the top of my set could have randomly occurred as a result of happens-chance.

I've noted that I am heaviest on the top of my set since August 2012, and I've stated on film several times, including when I rolled 9 hardways in 10 throws and including when I rolled the three hard 8's with no easy. This characteristic is both mathematically remote and continues the same way that it is very remote to have continued to persist.

My entire reason for even looking at my outcomes was because I was rolling so many 12's at the time (when I used the 6262 set). It was horrific because I was betting come bets with no odds back then and the crap was killing me(!!!)

At that time, when I first started recording, I had enough 12's that I had a player edge in the field!! Also a 2.78% edge per roll.

I'm pretty sure that if you put my set at 6262 today, I could continue to have a player edge in the field too!

Same edge per roll as the hardways, so there's no reason not to expect that. But I could check it when I get home.

Believe it or not SOOPOO, it may in fact be true. Only time will tell.

Of course I could have my next 3000 rolls have just as many fewer coming out from what's on the top of my set.

So time will tell.

For now I do feel that I enjoy a player edge on a single hardway bet when I put that hardway on the top of my set.

And although I don't do it for myself, if someone else has a big bet on a particular outcome, I will put it on the top of my set.

I hit someone's 100 dollar yo last Sunday doing that: putting 6-5 on the top of my set and rolling a yo.

Quote: EvenBob

I've been going since 76 also and never got mad
at a game either. Its really not worth it. Especially
in the 70's. Security was a lot different then, they
didn't read you the trespass act, the pounded the
riot act into your head. Not kidding, they'd throw
you out the front door onto your face on the sidewalk.

Yes, I've been given the bum's rush a few times back in the good old days. In this day and age, though, is storming off in a huff the way to go? What about contacting someone in upper management in a calm and respectful way or am I dreaming?

One of the very few times I was angry at the craps table with how I was treated was not with the dealers--it was with the boxman and the floor supervisor at a casino where I used to play regularly a few years ago. This is the only time that I actually left the table because I was unhappy with something that had occurred.

As I have mentioned before, I am a Don't Player. It is not a problem for me to know that other players sometimes say some pretty bad things about me--especially if they are losing. I don't view my play as against another player. But some people do.

I am not superstitious and I routinely shoot from the don't side. I know this surprises some people on occasion. Other times I will pass the dice--especially if there is a lot of excitement and emotion at the table and I don't want to take away from that.

But this one time I had been playing for nearly 2 hours and I was up a good deal when the dice got back to me and I decided to shoot--again from the don't side. Two other guys (who were not betting very much at all) on my side of the table thought I was being a real idiot for shooting and they were really making a scene with many personal comments about me and at me. I am used to these sort of comments, but this time it was much worse.

What pissed me off was how the casino handled this--or I should say did not handle it.

I don't expect the dealers to look out for me--since they rely on tips and they should not have to be put in a position where it may appear that they are taking sides in favor of a player.

But the boxperson is not part of the dealer crew. And the floorperson is also definitely not part of the dealer crew. Neither one said a word to put a stop or control the nasty comments these two guys were directing at me.

So, I suddenly stopped and put down the dice just before a throw and said to take down all my bets--including the flat bets where I clearly am at an advantage. (I play the Don't Pass and also the DC on every roll, and I seem to recall that 5 different numbers had been thrown so I had flat bets with 10x lay odds on each of the numbers--over $1,500 on the table.) I said to pass the dice (in the middle of my row) and color me up.

Immediately the floor supervisor came over to find out what was wrong. I told him calmly that I have no desire to play in a casino where I am abused in such a way that was clearly over the line. He apologized and said he would take care of the situation--but I told him he was too late.

Frankly, if I was not already up a good deal and thinking of leaving anyway, I doubt that I would let these two jerks run me from the table. But what bothered me more than the nasty comments from these idiots was the fact that the casino permitted a situation to continue where two players are razzing another player so mercilessly.

As I left the table, the table games shift supervisor caught up with me--he knows me--and apologized repeatedly and asked what he could do to make it right. He said that it was the first time that he had ever known me to be angry (though I did not raise my voice and make a scene--but he could tell). I simply said that I hoped in the future that I might be made to feel more welcome. Indeed, a couple of weeks later I returned to the casino and as I was buying-in, the floor person (who was a different pit supervisor than before) apologized for my previous visit and hoped that my experience would be better this time.

You are right. You would be surprised what you get by doing that. In a survey I stated our room was too loud and they refunded me the $200 I paid for it without me even asking.

Quote: EvenBob

I was in line at the cage at the MGM and finally got to the front and a Japanese business man in a suit came walking up and passed right by me to the open window. This infuriated me and I started yelling 'HEY JAP' at him...

That's nice.

Just curious: how did you know that he was Japanese and how did you know that he was a businessman?

Quote: Ahigh

I enjoyed reading your comment where you called someone a JAP.

New term for you? Its short for Japanese, like
Chi-Com is short for Chinese Communist. Real
simple..

Quote: Ahigh

Can someone run chi-squared on expected number of whats on the top of my set versus every other outcome? I think my current ratio is 1 in 28.5 for what's on the top of my set.

Combined that with 1 in 6.35 or lower for the seven, and yeah, I think that's a player edge even if I have more than expected number of easy ways.

The simulator also showed I have a player edge on the hard 8 flat betting it for all 3398 rolls.

And of course it's all theory, but the data is there my friend.

Just doing a quick test:

Observed distibution:

Hard 8: Observed: 123, expected 97.16
Everything else: Observed 3275, expected 3398

p-value 0.007819

My numbers may be one or two off, this if from memory as I don't have my software where I am now.

As far as the relationship with the Silverton folks, I wasn't kicked out, so if it really hurts me, I can always change my mind assuming they will take me back. I have told them that this is not about a single person or a personal issue or even a single event. Just time for me to move on.

I think it's best for me too, it's not just the result of one incident. I had warned them previously effectively that I am not happy with how they are fumbling around when I told them I expected more of them... If they improve their setup to my satisfaction I will come back. It's not a personal thing at all!

I did that on your 4-2 sets (your last 2,212 rolls). It came out with a p=.0163 on the hard 8. But the chi squared for the entire set was .47123. You threw more 4s in that set than any other value (p=.022) but your 2s came out with .24931, meaning that your up dice have no correlation to your result.

the fact that the Chi-Square for the entire set had p values of .51899 for each die result and .47123 for the combinatarial results means that your results were quite random.

You have to expect that over 21 different outcomes of rolls that at least two results will be in the +/- .05 range. Your hard 4 and aces are in that range. So nothing unexpected going on here. Your sample size is still too small.

Quote: boymimbo

I did that on your 4-2 sets (your last 2,212 rolls). It came out with a p=.0163 on the hard 8. But the chi squared for the entire set was .47123. You threw more 4s in that set than any other value (p=.022) but your 2s came out with .24931, meaning that your up dice have no correlation to your result.

the fact that the Chi-Square for the entire set had p values of .51899 for each die result and .47123 for the combinatarial results means that your results were quite random.

You have to expect that over 21 different outcomes of rolls that at least two results will be in the +/- .05 range. Your hard 4 and aces are in that range. So nothing unexpected going on here. Your sample size is still too small.

The command "s 4242" means hard 8 sets.

So if the roll data says "s 6262" when you see 66 that means the outcome is from the top of my set for that data....

Not sure if you understood my roll data, but my software lets me easily transform all the data to the same set for analysis of the roll characteristics assuming the dice are 100% fair instead of just the outcomes.

Quote: tupp

That's nice.

Just curious: how did you know that he was Japanese and how did you know that he was a businessman?

I lived in Hawaii for a year, the place is all Japanese
and Chinese. You better know the difference or you're
in big trouble, calling them wrong can get your head
pounded in. Or worse. He had on a business suit,
maybe he was going to church, who knows.

Quote: EvenBob

I lived in Hawaii for a year, the place is all Japanese and Chinese. You better know the difference or you're in big trouble, calling them wrong can get your head pounded in.

So, you have prior experience in name-calling and bigotry. Who would have guessed?

Quote: tupp

So, you have prior experience in name-calling and bigotry. Who would have guessed?

Calling someone a "jap" is often an idicator of bigotry, but how in the world is Bob's last comment bigoted? If anyone in the story is bigoted it is not Bob bu the Japanese/Chinese fellows. If I told you that I felt insulted that you called me black/mexican/canadian that would mean that I am bigoted against those nationalities, not you.

I am the last person to defend Bob generally but we live in a time where the mere suggestion that people of different races might, in fact, be different in any manner whatsoever is viewed as evidence that one is a bigot. I am tired of it.

Quote: tupp

So, you have prior experience in name-calling and bigotry. Who would have guessed?

Yup, I was pissed and called him a Jap. I would
have hugged him and kissed him on the mouth,
but I really wasn't in that kind of mood. Ya know?

The cliche southern white racist has absolutely nothing on the typical Asian. Pacific Islanders, including Hawaiians, are the worst.

Quote: EvenBob

Yup, I was pissed and called him a Jap. I would
have hugged him and kissed him on the mouth,
but I really wasn't in that kind of mood. Ya know?

Just how much alcohol / MSNBC would it take for you to kiss him on the mouth?

Quote: bigfoot66

I am the last person to defend Bob generally but we live in a time where the mere suggestion that people of different races might, in fact, be different in any manner whatsoever is viewed as evidence that one is a bigot. I am tired of it.

Come now. you know perfectly well that also the suggestion that perople of different "races" might not be different is viewed as evidence that one is a bigot.

Quote: Nareed

Come now. you know perfectly well that also the suggestion that perople of different "races" might not be different is viewed as evidence that one is a bigot.

Ah, but there ARE differences in the races.

Asians play Baccarat.

Black craps players love prop bets and field.