Is Dice Control Real? Can It Be Tested?

Quote: MrV

Cut to the chase.

Ahigh's so-called research is meaningless, completely worthless, because he has been unable to have a bonafide precision shooter step up to the plate and toss em in from center field.

No, it is just him and some wannabes, all of whom demonstrate ... are you ready ... randomness.

Really, if I want to watch random rollers I'll just watch a game of craps, anywhere, any time.

Find your Bigfoot ... insert your probes ... tape it ... then discuss.

Otherwise, what's the point?

Ok, I'll probably regret it but I'll bite.

I have a friend who is an honorable man and fearless. An avid hunter, knows the difference between a mule deer and a racoon. While on a hunting foray and well armed he swears to this day he came face to face with a sasquatch. He tore himself up quite a bit escaping.

I was raised in the NW. The indians gathered in one place from hundreds of miles for the summer competitions, the race tracks are still worn into the ground.
Interestingly, dice have been found in the old campgrounds [no not the plastic ones]. Some of the elders who couldn't even speak english when asked about the existence of sasquatch were incredulous that the white people would ask such a question.

That's been the problem with people . If shown a bigfoot they'd want to kill it and disect it and put it on display. No balance with the earth.

Why you hating on the easter bunny? I've found many eggs and enjoy the hunts immensely.

I disagree with your opinion that the Ahigh show is worthless or meaningless. I liked the show a lot. Well, the alpha predator's succeeded and the show is gone. On to the next victim. This site is like Guantanamo for anyone interested in the topic of di. Complete with torturing the innocent.

I've watched Ahigh shoot and he has a real good shot. He has the physical skill already to do what is possible. The hurdle for anyone is mental.

Quote: Zcore13

Well, when you do get some more time we can never get enough of watching random rolls on video

Not bloody likely.

ALAN


Your in vegas correct..... you have to have seen people that have a good throw. I have seen the good throws
from instructors in class, they are all good. i have had nights where my throw was very good, i have been
asked to stop throwing like that in several casino's. Yet at the same time i have to confuss i cant do it at will.Sometimes
i get to a table and i am awful, particularly if i am at a longer table or a higher table than i am used to.

Some said on this thread, maybe it was you that there is very little difference between some that is very lucky
and someone that is skilled. That is 100% right in terms of outcome. BUt you cant honestly say that a throw that hits one end
of the table and bounces all the way back, or someone that throws every other throw off the table and still has a good
roll is the same.

If a DI had an advantage over a random thrower of 10%, most craps players would say that is something else, and that
would give you a large advantage over the table on the 6 & 8. Yet if you were trying to prove that, or see that it would
only be a change from 2.75 6 & 8 ( in combination) to 3.02 per 10 rolls or 10 out of 36 rolls compared to 11 for the DI.

If you were another player and saw a Di throw, you would never notice that, you would not think the guy was any better
than anyone else. Yet, If you played alot and bet the 6 & 8 and had that 10% advantage it would mean alot.

Again we are hung up on dice control.....doing something anytime you want, and dice influence where a throw done over
and over is going to be good enough on a certain number of throws to give you that advantage. If your a golfer
and you hit a number of poor shots, yet still you manage to hit a real good shot on every hole, your score would be
better than what your poor shots would tend to indicate. Same here.

Something else you dont talk about is the almost perfect roll, the 4/3 or 3/4 using the hardways set. You could see a Di
thowing and get a 4-4. 5-3 3-4 out..... or a 4-3 out,,,,, and a 5-4 5-4 4-2 4/3 out and the average person would think that
guy is terrible, yet he just threw 9 almost perfect on axis throws in a row.

I think you need to be a little more fair and honest when judging what DI is and what it is not.

Dicesitter.

The RAA proof for dice control is actually very simple.

It's absurd to think that it is impossible to overcome the house edge on a 1000x table.

The end. It's proven!!!

All you guys are wasting your time arguing that it's impossible.

Pure randomness is a fictional concept when it comes to dice.

Knowing the bias and exploiting it is a certainty once the edge become sufficiently small and the knowledge becomes sufficient large.

I think you members talking about BigFoot or the Easter Bunny as your foundation of knowledge by analogy are on public display as small-minded.

Trying to convince people that if dice control were possible all hell would break loose merely demonstrates you don't even understand the conversation in the first place.

Ahigh I will ask again why not find a way to verify and document your casino rolls since that's the real proof.

Quote: Ahigh

It's a tiny hurdle is one point that hopefully we can all agree on.

So tiny, in fact, that good luck often leads people to believe they have an edge they don't have. Because it doesn't take much good luck to win in this game with such a low overall house edge.

Therein lies the problem. It is very easy to get lucky playing dice. As a result, it is very difficult to demonstrate that one's results are due to skill at dice control rather than luck and random chance.

In fact, the small magnitude of the required control is one of the strongest points against it being a practical advantage play. If it's such a "tiny hurdle," and there are so many people trying to overcome it, it is notable that according to industry game protection experts, maybe three people can do it.

Quote: MathExtremist

In fact, the small magnitude of the required control is one of the strongest points against it being a practical advantage play. If it's such a "tiny hurdle," and there are so many people trying to overcome it, it is notable that according to industry game protection experts, maybe three people can do it.

I disagree that the tiny magnitude is a point against it. I fail to follow your evidence that the smaller the hurdle the less likely it is possible.

Either a smaller hurdle makes it MORE likely or LESS likely. Which is it you are suggesting just so we can be clear?

Game protection experts are more concerned with overall earnings than they are with preventing someone from making a profit in the long term due to skill.

Game protection experts are not advantage play craps experts.

Game protection experts are looking at overall revenues not at the difference between lucky guy and another guy who might not be lucky.

It's a straw man argument that if AP play is possible the game would not make money.

The casinos are FULL of people making all kinds of stupid bets on those felts. Plenty enough to facilitate AP under the radar.

That argument holds no water.

it took was a compliment, a pessimist, and Response to bring this whole topic back up... Can we please go to the next topic? 20+ pages going nowhere fast.

TheWolf713

it can be proven over a large sample. stating that this cant happen or wont happens means that it most likely wont happen, therefore it can't be proven.

IMO

when a DC/DI wins its skill
when they lose its unlucky


if they have any edge at all its so small that it cant even be measured in a given session or 10 sessions. it has to be done over thousands and thousands of rolls. of course there will be two sides to this argument and you have the side that believes and the side who thinks its total horse.

i have stated this is many posts. get the best dice controller their is (pay him if needs be) and set him vs 10 random people and throw thousands of rolls. The more rolls the better as variance will even out. he should in long run be at the top of anyone in the trial.

Quote: Ahigh

The RAA proof for dice control is actually very simple.

It's absurd to think that it is impossible to overcome the house edge on a 1000x table.

The end. It's proven!!!

All you guys are wasting your time arguing that it's impossible.

Pure randomness is a fictional concept when it comes to dice.

Knowing the bias and exploiting it is a certainty once the edge become sufficiently small and the knowledge becomes sufficient large.

I think you members talking about BigFoot or the Easter Bunny as your foundation of knowledge by analogy are on public display as small-minded.

Trying to convince people that if dice control were possible all hell would break loose merely demonstrates you don't even understand the conversation in the first place.

Ahigh, as you've used member's, plural I assume you are also referring to me. There are millions of people that believe in both of those. I'll go on record here as saying there is no Easter bunny. You may be correct in that anyone who would dare bring up publicly an alternative belief is small minded, but I got to say man shame on you for going on the attack like that.

So many people are talking at each other and not to each other.

People have wanted to help you and your so hard headed you refuse it till your choking. I hope you don't let them turn you into one of them, there are too many in the world aready.

Small minded, I don't get that response from actually anyone but you. Is it my lack of communication skills, or your refusal to listen?
I hope what ever is causing your stress subsides and you can get back to the good old Ahigh we all know.

I apologize for not being clearer, but those who bring the Easter Bunny and Bigfoot into the conversation as if it has any bearing whatsoever on dice control are those that I am speaking of.

If you think that the existence of Bigfoot has any effect on the possible existence of dice control, then yes I include you in this.

If you think that they are separate topics, then I exclude you.

Hopefully that clears up my point about those who bring Bigfoot and the Easter Bunny into the conversation.

I know for a fact that the reason these people roped in these topics was to mock those who are truly interested in the subject of dice control.

Your conversation, as far as I am concerned, about the existence of either of these things has absolutely nothing to do with the proof of dice control from my view.

But for what it's worth, I wasn't trying to attack you or your belief system or accuse you of being small-minded.

It is those who REFUSE to believe things without sufficient evidence to do so that I consider to be small minded.

Not those who are, for example, searching for extra-terrestrial life by doing SETI-AT-HOME and what-not because it might be possible. It's those who think the whole thing is a joke that I am aiming at. And more specifically those who are small minded enough to not even contemplate the possibility of any of these things as all being equally far-fetched that I have issue with.

Hopefully that clears it all up, and I apologize for any misunderstanding.

in theory i think its possible, do i think people do it? do it well? make a living?...well im not sure, i want to believe it but i dont, just like you tell me there is bigfoot and UFOs, sure i think its possible but i dont believe everything people tell me.

i like proof

i dont like seeing a video of someone rolling, just like i dont like seeing a video of bigfoot...you can see why right?

i stated how it can be proven above, and i cant get out of my head why some of you guys wouldnt want to.

NEXBIT


What you have said is 100% FALSE..... when a good DI wins, he or she knows whether it was skill or
luck and will tell you that, if the dice bounce all over and you win it is luck,... end of story, if your
throw is good and you win... it is not luck..... when we lose it is not bad luck... particularly
if the throw is all over , it is just simple, we threw very poorly.... as i indicated you cant, or atleast
i sure as hell cant throw every roll the way i want, and if i am off. i am, going to lose....period
and i dont blame that on bad luck or dice control or a bad table... i was just not good enough...

For the life of me i cant understand why this is so hard to explain,,.,,,, in every sport or human activity
you need to do things correct to be good consistantly.... you cant do anything poorly and have a good
result over time..

Dicesitter

Quote: dicesitter

NEXBIT


What you have said is 100% FALSE..... when a good DI wins, he or she knows whether it was skill or
luck and will tell you that, if the dice bounce all over and you win it is luck,... end of story, if your
throw is good and you win... it is not luck..... when we lose it is not bad luck... particularly
if the throw is all over , it is just simple, we threw very poorly....

OK, got it: you declare, therefore it is so.

Such is life in the Land of the Lotus Eaters.

Oh wait a minute: nobody has proven it works.

Heck, nobody has demonstrated they can even do it.

Alright you lot, back on your heads ...

Quote: AxelWolf

Ahigh I will ask again why not find a way to verify and document your casino rolls since that's the real proof.

?

Quote: Ahigh

Where's your evidence of how your "dice LOOKED like they were controlled."

Was this "look" in slow motion, or with the naked eye at the casino?

Do you get video, or just making comments from memory.

It seems to me like very few people who take issue with what I am doing can back up their talk.

SHOW ME DON'T TELL ME.

You are an expert in your own mind, Alan. At least you have that much!

When I wrote the "dice looked like they were controlled" it's because that's what the crew members said. I wasn't controlling the dice but I was using a set (cross sixes) and my dice were travelling together and bouncing back softly... and I was winning. So they thought I was a mechanic.

Was I controlling the dice? HELL NO. Did my dice end up on "good numbers"? Yes. I got lucky. Did the dealers "panic" and think I was there to rob them? Yes, as laughable as the whole thing is, it happened. Which is why Bellagio management later apologized to me, sent the dealers for "retraining" and why the floor person at Bellagio at the time ordered the table crew to pay my bets when they initially refused to pay them (they weren't all paid, however).

This whole discussion about dice control and dice influencing has gotten to the point of silliness.

Yes it is theoretically possible.
Yes you should try to hit the numbers that will benefit you.
If you happen to hit your numbers through random luck, great.
If you happen to really be able to "control" the dice, that's also great because the rules allow for that.

What bugs me is when people claim to be able to control the dice when they really cant. That's all. But if someone can really control dice, I want to put them on TV. I'm waiting. In the meantime... keep trying.

Quote: dicesitter

NEXBIT


What you have said is 100% FALSE..... when a good DI wins, he or she knows whether it was skill or
luck and will tell you that
Dicesitter

Then why not next time a challenge or recording or rolls is going on the shooter call out before the outcome is determined GOOD, GREAT ,THE MONEY or BAD,TERRIBLE ,HORRIBLE roll. Just as I have stated Any professional usually knows instantly if they messes up. this would speed everything up considerably. The SR numbers should start to match his calls.

IE A good bowler can throw the ball, turn around and pump his fist in victory knowing its a strike even before the ball is half way down the lane.

I am very aware I am not a good writer and even suck, however I think I have some valid points and suggestions.

Alright guys. I bravely open myself up to be criticized and ridiculed, but so far I'm showing DI can and does exist. After 832 rolls my SRS is 7.1724. I would appreciate one of the better statisticians in the thread to break down what gorilla out of how many gorillas I am. Showing math would be appreciated.


Is this on video? No. But I'm in the process of setting up an acceptable rig of cameras to show my throws.

Was this done in a casino? No, it was done on the homemade table in my garage thrown at an identical length as would be thrown in a casino.
-You say this means it doesn't count? That's that a credible argument. If Tiger Woods can hit a drive 300 in his back yard then it is safe to assume it's possible for Tiger to hit a 300 yard drive in a tournament.

I may not be able to influence some of you as well as I can influence dice, but some of you have proposed challenges such as proving one has total control in 1 out of 72 throws. This will be my first challenge to take up as soon as I can get a camera rig.
-Why? Because it is a small sample and I know I can WITHOUT A DOUBT influence at least 1 in 72 throws consistently.

What counts as influence? By influence I mean when I throw a hardways set the dice will fly together have similar bounces and land with the same face up and other faces, facing similar directions. ie a hard ten, with the 3's showing back directly at me, the thrower.

https://wizardofvegas.com/member/ahigh/blog/#post896

If you record both dice and the set that you used to throw the dice and the order of the throws, I can run the rolls through my software too and give you feedback.

Thanks for doing the work so far that you've done. I know it's a lot of work, and I think it's awesome you're doing it.

More data is better though!

LOL

Here we go again ...

Quote: MrV

LOL

Here we go again ...

Don't pretend that you're doing anything. LOL.

Quote: Ahigh

I apologize for not being clearer, but those who bring the Easter Bunny and Bigfoot into the conversation as if it has any bearing whatsoever on dice control are those that I am speaking of.

If you think that the existence of Bigfoot has any effect on the possible existence of dice control, then yes I include you in this.

If you think that they are separate topics, then I exclude you.

Hopefully that clears up my point about those who bring Bigfoot and the Easter Bunny into the conversation.

I know for a fact that the reason these people roped in these topics was to mock those who are truly interested in the subject of dice control.

Your conversation, as far as I am concerned, about the existence of either of these things has absolutely nothing to do with the proof of dice control from my view.

But for what it's worth, I wasn't trying to attack you or your belief system or accuse you of being small-minded.

It is those who REFUSE to believe things without sufficient evidence to do so that I consider to be small minded.

Not those who are, for example, searching for extra-terrestrial life by doing SETI-AT-HOME and what-not because it might be possible. It's those who think the whole thing is a joke that I am aiming at. And more specifically those who are small minded enough to not even contemplate the possibility of any of these things as all being equally far-fetched that I have issue with.

Hopefully that clears it all up, and I apologize for any misunderstanding.

I suspected I would regret exposing any alternate beliefs. As I recognize the power of normalcy bias.
I believe you are correct that it was originally used to scorn or ridicule. There are none so blind as those
who will not see.
The sealacamp fish thought extinct for twenty thousand years, was caught off the coast of Madagascar I think in '05.

I find it humorous at least that there are those that demand scientific evidence before they will believe di.
Why I find it so is they need to be careful how far they want to go down the science rabbit hole.
I consider quantum physics a science. As well as quantum mechanics.
The first statement of qm is that "reality is created by the observer" Again, funny that all those that don't
believe, think that they can determine the parameter's of proof, and want to use scienctific principle as their shield.
When the most cutting edge science dictates it not only possible, but likely.

The poster I was responding to stated that "in ALL of history" there is not proof. Wow, that's pretty all encompassing. And again later states
that he would welcome proof. That statement is only true when they get to difine proof. I say that to those that don't believe, no proof is possible,and to those that do believe,
no proof is necessary.

The problem with dice control is the same as the problem with religion: it requires that one have faith.

Belief systems founded on faith and not reality create zealots.

Hello, Boston bombers.

Quote: Ahigh

https://wizardofvegas.com/member/ahigh/blog/#post896

If you record both dice and the set that you used to throw the dice and the order of the throws, I can run the rolls through my software too and give you feedback.

Thanks for doing the work so far that you've done. I know it's a lot of work, and I think it's awesome you're doing it.

More data is better though!

Both dice are recording on the left and configure to be added up in the middle columns. I used a hardset the whole way through as to get an accurate SRS. In reality I would throw a set that favors a 7 on the come out. I didn't distinguish the two throwing them though. I didn't think I would have access to a software that says "hey the left di is off-axis more than the left." But the result of each di is recorded. More data is on the way.

Quote: MrV

The problem with dice control is the same as the problem with religion: it requires that one have faith.

Belief systems founded on faith and not reality create zealots.

Hello, Boston bombers.

Those who think DI is possible are terrorists.

Wow. That's a startling all time low, even for you.

I never said you were a terrorist, although your belief in the efficacy of dice setting is somewhat terrifying.

You and the other proselytizing dice setters are ZEALOTS, i.e. fanatical partisans of the black art of bone arranging.

Untrammeled zeal can be dangerous.

Quote: MrV

I never said you were a terrorist, although your belief in the efficacy of dice setting is somewhat terrifying.

You and the other proselytizing dice setters are ZEALOTS, i.e. fanatical partisans of the black art of bone arranging.

Untrammeled zeal can be dangerous.

Unlike you, MrV I will not condemn those who believe in DI or try to do it. I hope that they can do it, and if they can't do it now, that they can in the future.

For heaven's sake, everyone who throws the dice hopes to have the dice go "their way." So why not try?

It's part of the game to try.

Just don't try to sell anyone on it if you can't do it yourself. And if you try to sell someone on it, at least charge a reasonable price such as Sharpshooter's book which is now $10.96 or less on amazon.

Quote: MrV

I never said you were a terrorist, although your belief in the efficacy of dice setting is somewhat terrifying.

You and the other proselytizing dice setters are ZEALOTS, i.e. fanatical partisans of the black art of bone arranging.

Untrammeled zeal can be dangerous.

I hope you are being facetious. Your anti-semitic attack even if only in jest is uncalled for.

"Untrammeled" ? That's a big word there V and I had to look it up. Is it your opinion then that
all faith should be restricted?

Quote: petroglyph

Your anti-semitic attack even if only in jest is uncalled for.

Antisemitic attack?

Really?!

So, using the word "zealot" is grounds for calling in the JDL, is it?

Quote: Ahigh

I disagree that the tiny magnitude is a point against it. I fail to follow your evidence that the smaller the hurdle the less likely it is possible.

Either a smaller hurdle makes it MORE likely or LESS likely. Which is it you are suggesting just so we can be clear?

Game protection experts are more concerned with overall earnings than they are with preventing someone from making a profit in the long term due to skill.

Game protection experts are not advantage play craps experts.

Game protection experts are looking at overall revenues not at the difference between lucky guy and another guy who might not be lucky.

It's a straw man argument that if AP play is possible the game would not make money.

The casinos are FULL of people making all kinds of stupid bets on those felts. Plenty enough to facilitate AP under the radar.

That argument holds no water.

You seem to have a lot of knowledge of what game protection people think and look for. Please explain your experience in this field.

ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

You seem to have a lot of knowledge of what game protection people think and look for. Please explain your experience in this field.

That's a leap. If your play makes no difference to the casino, they couldn't care less. I don't need to know anything about what they look for, only about what they don't.

WOW Whatever!! you guys argue about the dumbest things. I want to know if anybody is really interested in proving if DI is possible or not. We can argue until the cows come home. Ahigh did step up to the plate, props for that. Why stop now?. He says he was/is only trying to prove DI is only motivated by.... science,notoriety? ummm not sure. At first I thought he really just wanted to know the truth. He fights vigorously defending his SR numbers. I think even he admits that his good results could be due to luck. I keep asking myself why,why fight so hard? a small part of me in the back of my head I keep thinking there is more to this then he's admitting. (Patton on DI prevention?) Really the only times I have seen anyone fight like this was defending religious beliefs or some bogus system. Why all the argument from you Ahigh? Just figure out what it takes to prove or disprove DI. Then do it on the show. Tell people put up or shut up by betting or helping somehow.

People keep talking about if it's possible. Of course it's possible, but so is time travel or so they say.
possible = can you make money from just DI. books classes cons tips don't count in the proof

I'm open to the possibility

Quote: AxelWolf

WOW Whatever!! you guys argue about the dumbest things. I want to know if anybody is really interested in proving if DI is possible or not. We can argue until the cows come home. Ahigh did step up to the plate, props for that. Why stop now?. He says he was/is only trying to prove DI is only motivated by.... science,notoriety? ummm not sure. At first I thought he really just wanted to know the truth. He fights vigorously defending his SR numbers. I think even he admits that his good results could be due to luck. I keep asking myself why,why fight so hard? a small part of me in the back of my head I keep thinking there is more to this then he's admitting. (Patton on DI prevention?) Really the only times I have seen anyone fight like this was defending religious beliefs or some bogus system. Why all the argument from you Ahigh? Just figure out what it takes to prove or disprove DI. Then do it on the show. Tell people put up or shut up by betting or helping somehow.

People keep talking about if it's possible. Of course it's possible, but so is time travel or so they say.
possible = can you make money from just DI. books classes cons tips don't count in the proof

I'm open to the possibility

Hey we can agree on that. People on here argue about the dumbest shit for sure!

If you want to know, the timeline is probably a coincidence, but here's the post where I decided it really wasn't worth it:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/12821-ahigh-show-tuesday-at-7-30pm-pacific-time/69/#post233604

I'm not blaming Alan. This was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Alan didn't even watch the whole show. He had no idea what the show was even about even though I went over it several times before I did the show, during the show, at the end of the show, at the beginning of the show.

But I pretty much decided that if the show was a disaster even when I thought it was a success, there is basically no hope at all. I mean who am I even doing all this for?

The AlanMendelson's of the world?

IGAF!!

Got betta stuff ta do!

Maybe it was a lightbulb moment. Maybe it was just that I can't stand the guy! Maybe it's that nobody understands what I am doing at all and they still feel like making comments about it from their ignorant viewpoint of what they THINK I am doing.

Whatever it is or was or whatever, I'm just not motivated to deal with shit like people calling my show a disaster.

Or in the last couple of hours, I think Sodawater came in and said my post was not "intelligent." Ya know what? Screw 'em all!

Nobody pays me to do this stuff. Not only that, but I have a great job where they DO pay me to do stuff!

These guys want to say my show is a disaster or my posts are not intelligent with pretty much ZERO VALUE TO ADD other than just take a crap all over what I'm doing?

No worries; just don't expect me to keep on chugging away for more of that kind of treatment.

KMBA!

To bad the show is off that's a disappointment I love watching anything gaming related especially one that tries to prove a winning method. I cant believe you let those guys break you. I think it adds a BIG BIG +1 in the not possible column... OUCH! In gambling it really is not better to have tried and failed then not to have tried at all. No matter how you look at it or why you gave up, people will just say, you realized it was not possible and made up some reason to quit. If you have given up on the show what now? I guess if you have some DI then no need to prove anything just play craps win big and get the last laugh all the way to the bank.

Quote: AxelWolf

I want to know if anybody is really interested in proving if DI is possible or not.

early on I said that I would accept that someone is a dice influencer or controller if they could throw the dice as prescribed by Sharpshooter in his book:

1. set dice
2. throw at a 45-degree angle
3. dice kept together
4. dice kept on axis
5. soft, easy bounce at end of the come box
6. soft easy roll to the center of the back wall with dice rolling together
7. soft glancing hit off the center of the back wall with a slight rebound

Show me a slow motion video of such a roll. Just one will suffice.

My next mortgage payment is due August 15th. I was making a mortgage payment every day for the last few days trying to get them all paid for the year. But the last one to post hit only the principle.

I am guessing there is a limit by law how many mortgage payments they can take and charge you interest, but I was trying to pay them all the way through December as I maxxed out my 401k withholding a few days ago to avoid paying taxes in my regular job's income.

I have found from experience that I don't need a lot of cash to start with. I took $17 on Saturday morning and turned it into $1260 by tonight and deposited it. The biggest run-up was on crapless last Sunday during that time (+$480). Most of the others were $200 or less per trip. I have only had one losing day in the last three weeks.

During the time I was focusing on the show, my lack of winnings at the casino were used as evidence that I was unable to do what I claimed I could do.

I still don't get any heat.

My last few sessions this evening started with less than $100.

Session 1: California Club .. started with $91. Seven winner, seven winner, color up with $1 tip .. total play time 3 minutes.
Session 2: Plaza .. started with $20 .. rolled tons of hardways made $100
Break-time: I already made $100 earlier today so I went and grabbed a drink at the gift shop (and some souvenir dice). I came back to the table with my drink and was teaching some new guys how to play. New guys start winning really big, boxman gets upset and tells me "if you're not going to play you need to step away from the table." Boxman's name was Keith.
So I pulled out (a lot of) cash from my wallet and threw it on the felt and continue to watch after without betting. He didn't tell me to leave even though I didn't make any bets for some reason.
Session 3: Golden Gate - started with $28 ended with $45 -- total play time 5 minutes
Session 4: Main Street Station -- started with $45 ended with $60 -- rolled three sevens in a row on the comeout for $5 each and asked for color

The toughest time I had was at Golden Gate. There I almost lost and I have a tough time with that table. But every time I won, I started on an empty table, and left on a table with 1 to 4 players. Even just rolling a couple of sevens, as soon as players show up, I bolt!

The session at crapless on Sunday was awesome. Just me and the empty table and the dealers were fantastic. Nobody bothered me, it was all perfect.

I intentionally do small buy-ins and small wins to make it easier to tip a dollar and leave with a win. I usually make up an excuse about "I just remembered I gotta be somewhere."

I usually tip at least a buck no matter how much I win though. If I have to chase, I will give chase and sometimes stay for hours. But I'm happy to win $20 to $100 from a tiny buy-in and just come across as someone who brings a few small bills (looks like stripper money) and turns it into a few 20's or a $100.

I've been winning a couple hundred every day for weeks now though. And here and there I will pull just under $1000 at a time. I generally don't ever want to win more than $1,000. I am still using my cards, but I am starting to refuse to give my cards now too. A lot of places know me and rate me anyway, but the last few places I didn't do cards which is very new for me since I had been playing for fun and comps until more recently. I can always throw in a card if I take a loss I figure.

As far as anybody making an incorrect assumption about my ability to advantage play or not, screw 'em! The critics don't deserve what I've already offered up and I owe nobody for anything! Who's concerned about me getting what I deserve for all the work I've done here? Am I supposed to feel bad for not being motivated after reading Alan's summary of my show being a "disaster" then talking himself about wanting to do a show.

LOL. That's all I heard from Alan is talk from the beginning when I first met him.

Since he talked it, I did it, and he still talks it.

Funny. I think he just wishes he did more than talk. But it's work, so I understand.

But I'm done. It's a disaster? Hey! At least I did more than talk about it!

I'm tired of dealing with losers.

When my house is paid for and I have more financial cushion maybe I'll spend more time on it.

But I still have a 9-to-5 job that I love.

And the Ahigh show ain't it!

I will leave the shows to the "professionals."

So that's your queue Alan! You can certainly do better than the Ahigh show and your shot. Go for it bro! I'll just sit back and make "disaster" comments.

Quote: Ahigh

My next mortgage payment is due August 15th. I was making a mortgage payment every day for the last few days trying to get them all paid for the year.

Totally off the subject of gambling, but still want to respond. I apologize if this unsolicited advice is unwelcome or unnecessary.

Of course I've not read the terms of your mortgage note, but I am confident that you will find that the bank will not apply the monthly payments that you pay in advance in the way you expected.

I thought maybe you were depositing your future monthly mortgage payments (to cover this year) in a separate savings account and that you then intended to withdrawal the payment each month to send to the mortgage lender. That makes sense, if that is what you want to accomplish.

But if you send in extra payments to the bank in advance--assuming it is even permitted--the lender (in every case that I know) will first apply the payment to any accrued interest to date, and then apply the balance to principal. When your next normally scheduled payment due date comes around, you must still send in the expected payment or otherwise you will be delinquent. Regardless of the fact that you sent in extra payments in the interim.

You may want to double-check this with your own lender.

Yep that's generally correct. In most cases, mortgage payments are always due on the due date, and payments taken before the due date are generally prepayments. Most mortgages usually have prepayment limits. For example, I have a pretty liberal mortgage where I can double up payments anytime and lump sum 15% of my principal at anytime, but my mortgage comes out of my bank account on the 1st of every month as always.

Guys........................There is one fact whether we like it or not, if you dont talk about
the ability to influence the dice, all we have left is how to play a game
where every bet on there carries a house advantage. You may as well
play slots, because nothing you do makes any difference, except the less
you bet, the less you lose.

Instead of bantering this about day after day why not set some standards
to see what happens. For instance if you just throw a die down the table
you have 6 results that are possible on the left die. Out of 12 rolls you should
have 2 of each... on average, more of 1 number suggests influence
I will throw 100 rolls, will Ahigh, or Alan or Mrv..see what we end up with

Out of 100 rolls we should average 27.5 6 & 8's in combination, i will roll
100 rolls, will Ahigh, Alan and Mrv do that

Any others that want to lets do it, instead of fighting like kids over this
lets just see what happens

Dicesitter

One more thing on sending extra payments to the mortgage company. If sometime in the future you come across hard times... medical bills, lose your job, whatever... if you then go to the mortgage company and say hey I paid all these extra payments, is there anything you can do for me to help me out right now? Their answer, sorry make your payment.

If you take that same extra money and put it in savings or a mutual fund you can use it to pay the mortgage down in chunks when you have built up extra or it is also available to you in an emergency.

ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

If you take that same extra money and put it in savings or a mutual fund you can use it to pay the mortgage down in chunks when you have built up extra or it is also available to you in an emergency.

Then again, if you throw it all on the craps table and ratchet up your bet level, the sky's the limit.

Heck, people might talk about you the way they do about Archie Karas and his epic run at Binion's.

Luck happens.

I have at my disposal up to $50,000 to loan from myself from my 401k plan in case of emergency. I can't lend more than this due to restrictions that, I think, are legal limits rather than available resources.

The cost-opportunity of doing pre-payments is something I thought considerably about. However, I intentionally locked up the money this way. It's the lack of interest from any account where that cash could live that I'm missing out on, which is effectively zero.

I still have way too much cash and I am fixing the problem one day at a time.

I have been more comfortable with $500 to $3000 cash in recent years and lately I have been creeping up on $20,000.

But I will keep putting the cash into payments even if it's principle reduction only that they allow. I want to get this home loan done. My standard deduction as single was just a hundred bucks less than my itemized this year and I was single. Next year being married, there's no tax advantage to even having mortgage interest, so I want to knock it out as it's the last piece of my financial puzzle as everything else is paid for.

I've got almost half of the house paid for now, and I am very happy about that. I am still not aiming to be a professional gambler, but I absolutely want to pay off my house!

i just did 76 rolls with a hardway set of 5 on top. average says you should get 12.5 on each side over 75 rolls

6-2 5-2 3-2 5-3
3-2 3-2 5-2 6-1
3-5 2-4 1-2 3-2
5-5 4-4 5-2 2-1
1-6 3-6 1-6 2-3
5-5 5-1 2-3 5-5 this is 76 rolls you would expect 12.6 5's showing on each die considering this is a completely
2-2 5-3 5-1 4-3 random throw. In this set we have 21 on the left die and 16 on the right. This is typical for my
6-2 5-5 4-2 1-1 sets because i have trouble with the pressure on my ring finger. this type of result also suggests you
5-4 5-5 6-5 6-1 you will get more 5-2 than 4/3 on your 7's
3-2 3-4 1-5 5-1
4-2 5-1 5-4 5-2 Over-all i have the appearance of 37 5's on the top of my resulting throw, average would suggest 25
5-2 4-1 6-4 5-2 I have 48% on axis which is not good, but above random by 4% i had 11 sevens which is pretty
2-4 4-5 3-6 2-4 bad, but it is what it is. when you get a 1-6 or 6-1, that is a terrible throw with both dice off axis, and i
4-3 3-6 4-6 5-4 had 4 of those. I had my right die off axis 20% more than the left, that is my individual problem, if
1-1 1-6 4-1 6-5 i can fix that , my results will be much better. Over-all if these were the results you get day in and
6-2 5-1 2-5 2-4 day out that shows a influence over the dice. next time i will place the 3's on top and see results.
4-5 5-1 5-5 6-6
1-6 6-4 1-1 3-2
4-2 6-5 6-5 5-5

dicesitter

Quote: dicesitter

I will throw 100 rolls, will Ahigh, or Alan or Mrv..see what we end up with

Out of 100 rolls we should average 27.5 6 & 8's in combination, i will roll
100 rolls, will Ahigh, Alan and Mrv do that

Any others that want to lets do it, instead of fighting like kids over this
lets just see what happens

Dicesitter

Unfortunately, anyone's rolls... what numbers they hit or don't hit... doesn't indicate any ability to influence or control the dice. Totally random shooters can throw 18 yos in a row and I know -- I saw it happen. Totally random shooters can throw an 8 on the come out and make an 8 on the next throw, and repeat this three times in a row -- I saw it happen.

If you want to prove to me a controlled or influenced throw, show me a slow motion video of a controlled or influenced throw with the dice remaining together, on axis, softly hitting the back wall and then showing a "good number." (if you set for a 7 then it can be a 7, etc.)

Dice control means only one thing: CONTROLLING THE DICE. Anyone can get a good number through random luck. But only a DICE CONTROLLER can control how the dice are thrown, rotate, bounced and roll.

I'm waiting for the slow motion video. JUST ONE.

Dicesitter; Gosh, you are so ready to go on the Ahigh show! Take SOOPOO's money. On your way to making a liar out of MrV. Wear a mask and Depends.

Quote: dicesitter

i just did 76 rolls with a hardway set of 5 on top. average says you should get 12.5 on each side over 75 rolls

6-2 5-2 3-2 5-3
3-2 3-2 5-2 6-1
3-5 2-4 1-2 3-2
5-5 4-4 5-2 2-1
1-6 3-6 1-6 2-3
5-5 5-1 2-3 5-5 this is 76 rolls you would expect 12.6 5's showing on each die considering this is a completely
2-2 5-3 5-1 4-3 random throw. In this set we have 21 on the left die and 16 on the right. This is typical for my
6-2 5-5 4-2 1-1 sets because i have trouble with the pressure on my ring finger. this type of result also suggests you
5-4 5-5 6-5 6-1 you will get more 5-2 than 4/3 on your 7's
3-2 3-4 1-5 5-1
4-2 5-1 5-4 5-2 Over-all i have the appearance of 37 5's on the top of my resulting throw, average would suggest 25
5-2 4-1 6-4 5-2 I have 48% on axis which is not good, but above random by 4% i had 11 sevens which is pretty
2-4 4-5 3-6 2-4 bad, but it is what it is. when you get a 1-6 or 6-1, that is a terrible throw with both dice off axis, and i
4-3 3-6 4-6 5-4 had 4 of those. I had my right die off axis 20% more than the left, that is my individual problem, if
1-1 1-6 4-1 6-5 i can fix that , my results will be much better. Over-all if these were the results you get day in and
6-2 5-1 2-5 2-4 day out that shows a influence over the dice. next time i will place the 3's on top and see results.
4-5 5-1 5-5 6-6
1-6 6-4 1-1 3-2
4-2 6-5 6-5 5-5

dicesitter

What I like about the hard set is it allows the greatest amount of variance without the 7 result. I generally get one di off axis. Which is fine with me because the hard set can't get a 7 if one di lands as a 1 or 6 and the other doesn't. In the end, my results have shown a higher percentage of the 4 and 10's which is what I like because I buy 4 and 10.


832 rolls of my hardways data.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Unfortunately, anyone's rolls... what numbers they hit or don't hit... doesn't indicate any ability to influence or control the dice. Totally random shooters can throw 18 yos in a row and I know -- I saw it happen. Totally random shooters can throw an 8 on the come out and make an 8 on the next throw, and repeat this three times in a row -- I saw it happen.

If you want to prove to me a controlled or influenced throw, show me a slow motion video of a controlled or influenced throw with the dice remaining together, on axis, softly hitting the back wall and then showing a "good number." (if you set for a 7 then it can be a 7, etc.)

Dice control means only one thing: CONTROLLING THE DICE. Anyone can get a good number through random luck. But only a DICE CONTROLLER can control how the dice are thrown, rotate, bounced and roll.

I'm waiting for the slow motion video. JUST ONE.

Payday is Thursday, I'm going to see if I can find a decent camera that I can get and get some footage of this very event early next week. Stay on the lookout for the video.

well there you have it folks.

There is nothing anyone can do to convince Alan... I dont have problem with that, we all have a right to
our opinions, i just think it it would alot easier and even more adult if a person would just say, i dont beleive
in dice control or influence and i never will, if you do good for you. see how simple that is.

Now more to the point... you could throw 10 perfect on axis rolls in a row, and each would be some what different
in the reaction to the table and the wall, yet still be on axis. They could all hit and land within a 12 inch circle on
end of the table, yet each be some what different in terms of where they landed exacly.

What alan is saying. but does not appear to have the courage to say it directly , is i want the dice in slow motion to go down
the table, hit exactly the same spot, land exactly the same way and come to rest in the exact location within that 12 inch
circle or you cant prove that is a controlled throw. In other words you have to have perfect control, or there is no control, it
is not possible to have any influence over anything without complete control.... i guess that means if i throw 76 rolls with
the hardway set and 5's on top i need to have 76 rolls with a hard 10 result to show any control.....

Laughing..... this priceless.. god help Ahigh


Dicesitter

Quote: dicesitter

well there you have it folks.

There is nothing anyone can do to convince Alan... I dont have problem with that, we all have a right to
our opinions, i just think it it would alot easier and even more adult if a person would just say, i dont beleive
in dice control or influence and i never will, if you do good for you. see how simple that is.

Now more to the point... you could throw 10 perfect on axis rolls in a row, and each would be some what different
in the reaction to the table and the wall, yet still be on axis. They could all hit and land within a 12 inch circle on
end of the table, yet each be some what different in terms of where they landed exacly.

What alan is saying. but does not appear to have the courage to say it directly , is i want the dice in slow motion to go down
the table, hit exactly the same spot, land exactly the same way and come to rest in the exact location within that 12 inch
circle or you cant prove that is a controlled throw. In other words you have to have perfect control, or there is no control, it
is not possible to have any influence over anything without complete control.... i guess that means if i throw 76 rolls with
the hardway set and 5's on top i need to have 76 rolls with a hard 10 result to show any control.....

Laughing..... this priceless.. god help Ahigh


Dicesitter

Fortunately, I can do exactly this. Maybe not every single throw. And I won't be able to call exactly which hard number will result. But I would say 1 out of every 20 throws will do exactly this. I can't wait to get it recorded and upload it for this thread. Land together, bounce in the same way, and come to rest as a hard - number, with the same face in the same if not almost the same direction. example: hard ten, 3's facing back towards me at a similar angle.

You misinterpreted what I said. And you took it to extreme.

Just show me a soft, 45-degree throw with the dice staying together and rotating on axis that hits at the end of the come box. That shouldn't be too hard. It's what many players can do after taking those courses in Vegas. Everytime I play at Caesars there is at least one or two players who do this.

Next, have the dice have a slow bounce or roll to the back wall while staying together. Also not hard to do. I see this frequently.

Next have the dice softly hit the back wall and bounce back slightly. Also, not hard to do.

Show me that video. Show me JUST THAT MUCH. In fact, SHOW ME JUST ONE OF AHIGH'S VIDEOS THAT LOOK LIKE THAT. Just one.

edited to add: Hardten I look forward to seeing your video. I don't deny that dice control exists. I think it is possible. I just haven't seen it yet HERE. I have seen it twice before, and I wrote about it before, by the surgeon and by the "mystery shooter" at Caesars.