Ahigh
Ahigh
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April 26th, 2013 at 8:56:10 AM permalink
Quote: hardten

I understand your train of thought here, but there are other threads. No? I just think it's funny that someone thinks that I'm part of some sort of "long con." Spamming one thread with new comments to "keep it going."



They don't really think that. The other thing about this forum is that due to the rules, the guy who made this sarcastic remark may have more wished to call you a more derogatory name (shill isn't exactly a bad name, but it's not a flattering term either). But since that is against the rules, you instead get to read about ten times as many messages explaining the hows and whys of sarcasm.

You should probably just read for a while. There is a ton of information about the characters on this forum available to you without actually interacting with them.

If you end up in Vegas, I will meet up with you and we can play. Just stay focused on the fun parts, and don't let the naysayers on this forum get you down if you enjoy believing, believe, I say.
aahigh.com
hardten
hardten
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April 26th, 2013 at 10:27:26 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh



If you end up in Vegas, I will meet up with you and we can play. Just stay focused on the fun parts, and don't let the naysayers on this forum get you down if you enjoy believing, believe, I say.



Sounds good. I've watched your videos and they are really well done. I'm planning a run to Vegas in August. I will def be in contact with you about that.

Is there anyone on these boards that plays in New Mexico? Specifically, Ruidoso?
TheWolf713
TheWolf713
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April 26th, 2013 at 6:57:12 PM permalink
Hard ten what area in Texas are you close to?
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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April 26th, 2013 at 7:33:59 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

It's the ratio of the box to seven not just the RSR ratio that you really want to look at assuming you want to take advantage of more than just the RSR.


Does that apply to pass as well as don't pass bets? And can your software reflect that?
Ahigh
Ahigh
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April 26th, 2013 at 8:00:12 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Does that apply to pass as well as don't pass bets? And can your software reflect that?



Yes.
aahigh.com
MrV
MrV
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April 26th, 2013 at 11:27:03 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

if you enjoy believing, believe, I say.



Oh, I do believe .
"What, me worry?"
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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April 27th, 2013 at 2:45:09 AM permalink
Oh guys Really Come on lighten up, that was more humor then sarcasm. However it dose seem that, just as all things craps die down, someone new or some inactive member posts a question that seems to get the craps (DI OF COURSE) conversation going again. This gives "DI's" a new chance at explaining (horn tooting) how good they are, how well they have done, betting philosophy's, power rolls, hot streaks , I, I, I,ME,ME,ME etc etc etc. In this situation I read each post as it appeared. What I found comical is I may be psychic. Let me explain, First I read ONLY the post I didn't pay attention to the name date or anything. After reading it I instantly knew the poster must have been a brand new person with no posts or info. I look to the left and bingo I was spot on. Clicked name and zero info, not uncommon. I knew there must have been a lag in the current thread. I knew his post would be answered within minutes from a "DI" guy, not uncommon. Ya I know, I know logic from his post would suggest that he was a new poster anyways. I just kind of think anyone that learned BJ & DI and knows all about you after watching your videos and knows about his SR numbers and the importance of staying on axis. Someone who has been willing to commit to 5k rolls, and take up your Ahigh show appearance offer(but doesn't know where you live or never posted here before) Just seems strange to me. Sometimes people show up and posts at the right time (When conversations die) with all the right Q's. I also predicted someone would tout a craps program to help, the poor guy only has excel. Lo and behold a hero appears with a alternative program. Yes I know that's what this forum is for "helping". I Predicted no matter how much lack of evidence there is for DI or how many people tried to deter him he would only listen to a "DI". I predicted someone would make an offer to guide him. Its like a perfect crime scene. Just enough bad lingo so they sound young and new to DI but, smart enough to know that "ITS DEFINITELY POSSIBLE."

I know if I were new to something related to gambling that 90% of the SHARPEST players in the US. avoid or preach against I would be asking way more questions to people who failed doing this. If nothing other than getting info on what to avoid doing.

I think any higher profile "DI" has a responsibility to discourage a 26 year old rookie from jumping right in. Explaining how hard it is, how much money it takes to be successful= making money, the addictive factors. and all the pitfalls. For someone successful like AHIGH who seemingly already has everything (but DI proof) this is a wonderful "hobby" From what I can tell no one is making money from solely "DI" (This should be the only question a want-a-be DI should have). I would equate being a DI to being a Navy Seal. One would have better odds of being a 110 pound gimp and becoming A Seal then becoming a successful DI.

am I "Paranoid much" ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdyOVDgKsgA Sometimes the helicopters really are following you.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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April 27th, 2013 at 4:26:55 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

From what I can tell no one is making money from solely "DI" .



Axel, I agree with you, but the "DIs" would say otherwise. Haven't you read 'dicesitter's' posts? He and his team are routinely beating the casinos for multiple times their buy ins. ROUTINELY. Harley, the masked gentleman from the Nickolay challenge, says he makes his living rolling them bones (with supplements from roulette!)
But don't be surprised when a new member enters and gravitates to a topic they are interested in. When I first joined I read every pai gow thread, and every dealer error thread, and actively participated, because I was most interested in those topics. If you claim to be a DI, or are just interested in the topic, it stands to reason you would 'bring up old threads' as they are new to you.
Mission146
Mission146
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April 27th, 2013 at 7:41:50 AM permalink
Quote: hardten

....but to say it means nothing is bit of a stretch.



Not at all, if you'll peruse what 7Craps posted, he stated that you are 1:12 to be where you are at this point. 1:12 is completely meaningless. That would very nearly be the equivalent of me picking a number in Roulette, having it hit within three spins, and declaring that I found a wheel biased toward that number.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Ahigh
Ahigh
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April 27th, 2013 at 8:42:42 AM permalink
The message is really clear, newcomer: you're not welcome here by the guys who dislike posts about craps on the board where they wish not to discuss the topic any further.
aahigh.com
MrV
MrV
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April 27th, 2013 at 11:01:51 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

The message is really clear, newcomer: you're not welcome here by the guys who dislike posts about craps on the board where they wish not to discuss the topic any further.



No, it is not that there are "guys who dislike posts about craps on the board;" rather, there are "guys who dislike unproven declarations of quasi-mystical dice control on the the board."

I love craps; it's the dice setters and their ridiculous, never-ending attempts to prove that their gambling god is "real" that irk me.
"What, me worry?"
tupp
tupp
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April 27th, 2013 at 12:25:33 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

No, it is not that there are "guys who dislike posts about craps on the board;" rather, there are "guys who dislike unproven declarations of quasi-mystical dice control on the the board."


Please list the "unproven declarations" of which you speak.


Quote: MrV

I love craps; it's the dice setters and their ridiculous, never-ending attempts to prove that their gambling god is "real" that irk me.


Dice setters?

In regards to attempts to "prove" that dice influencing is possible, there have been seven trials sanctioned by both sides. Four of the trials went in favor of the shooters, two favored the naysayers and one trial was a push. So, sanctioned evidence leans toward the possibility of dice influencing.
AxelWolf
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April 27th, 2013 at 1:13:24 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

Please list the "unproven declarations" of which you speak.



Dice setters?

In regards to attempts to "prove" that dice influencing is possible, there have been seven trials sanctioned by both sides. Four of the trials went in favor of the shooters, two favored the naysayers and one trial was a push. So, sanctioned evidence leans toward the possibility of dice influencing.

My mom swore up and down she was winning on penny slots I explained to her she just thinks she is because of selective memory.So in November I sent her an old tablet with some different apps to track her casino play. BIG Mistake I got a call 2 or 3 times everyday asking how to work her Tablet for over a week. Now shes obsessed. she first started recording slot play the day after Thanksgiving. Its a fun added game to her. She even calls me just to tell me about her wins or losses. She plays 2 to 3 hrs one to two times a month. Assuming my mommy isn't telling lies, to date she is up $388.07. "evidence leans toward the possibility of slot influencing"
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MrV
MrV
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April 27th, 2013 at 1:44:43 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

Please list the "unproven declarations" of which you speak.



How about Scoblete's brag about The Captain's world record roll?

How about pretty much ANYTHING that that old scoundrel, The Mad Professor, writes?

You want the truth ?
"What, me worry?"
tupp
tupp
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April 27th, 2013 at 1:56:20 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

My mom swore up and down she was winning on penny slots I explained to her she just thinks she is because of selective memory.So in November I sent her an old tablet with some different apps to track her casino play. BIG Mistake I got a call 2 or 3 times everyday asking how to work her Tablet for over a week. Now shes obsessed. she first started recording slot play the day after Thanksgiving. Its a fun added game to her. She even calls me just to tell me about her wins or losses. She plays 2 to 3 hrs one to two times a month. Assuming my mommy isn't telling lies, to date she is up $388.07. "evidence leans toward the possibility of slot influencing"


It was probably unnecessary to give all that irrelevant back-story -- especially with such ineffective and erroneous use of a quote for a punch line. It could have been set-up merely as, "My mom has been playing slots since Thanksgiving and she is up $388.07..."

Of course, there is a stark difference between monitored, sanctioned dice trials and your mom's aimless slot play. Dice trials measure only roll results against agreed-upon guidlines -- cumulative wins and losses depend on entirely on how one bets and have no bearing on such trials. Your mom's last session could be when she suddenly decided to bet full max on every pull, as opposed to a single penny on each pull -- if it was a winning session, that could counter a multitude of previous losing single-penny pulls. She could have also chanced on one jackpot. The comparison is like apples to oranges.
tupp
tupp
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April 27th, 2013 at 2:05:09 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

How about Scoblete's brag about The Captain's world record roll?


I am not familiar with the story, but, as we all know, one session doesn't prove anything on its own. I don't think anyone here believes otherwise -- even Mr. Scoblete.


Quote: MrV

How about pretty much ANYTHING that that old scoundrel, The Mad Professor, writes?


Is that person posting on this board?

Actually, I think that only one or two people here have declared that DI is absolutely true. The rest of us discuss the possibility, and a few test and record rolls.


Quote: MrV

You want the truth ?


How very clever and original.
AxelWolf
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April 27th, 2013 at 2:31:59 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

It was probably unnecessary to give all that irrelevant back-story -- especially with such ineffective and erroneous use of a quote for a punch line. It could have been set-up merely as, "My mom has been playing slots since Thanksgiving and she is up $388.07..."

Of course, there is a stark difference between monitored, sanctioned dice trials and your mom's aimless slot play. Dice trials measure only roll results against agreed-upon guidlines -- cumulative wins and losses depend on entirely on how one bets and have no bearing on such trials. Your mom's last session could be when she suddenly decided to bet full max on every pull, as opposed to a single penny on each pull -- if it was a winning session, that could counter a multitude of previous losing single-penny pulls. She could have also chanced on one jackpot. The comparison is like apples to oranges.

As it was an unnecessary back story it was just as unnecessary to point that out IMO almost hypothetical. NOT worth a argument. The back story was more entertainment for me to tell. Interesting to my mom when I send her link to read. I hope she will reference it if she ever writes a book called, "How to con people into thinking you can win with slot control" Your right it is a lot different however she did have some parameters even if she didn't realize them. She NEVER bets more then 2 coins per line and never more then 50 lines. She dose start and leave at the same times due to a shuttle bus scheduled. None of her single wins have been more then $100. I'm really saying that even some of the worst games people can get lucky for a long time.
PS. I'm not the first person who rambles on with stories and things that have nothing to do with anything or is not needed to explain something and compares apple to oranges to prove a point that can't be proven. I just employ bad grammar and punctuation doing it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MrV
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April 27th, 2013 at 3:33:47 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

How very clever and original.



Let me spell it out for you, bucko.

You starry eyed dreamers who believe in the possibility of dice setting actually working have the burden of proof, not me.

Under the standard method of scientific anaysis, a proposition is deemed unproven unless or until it is objectively proven.

OK, your move ...
"What, me worry?"
AlanMendelson
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April 27th, 2013 at 5:28:50 PM permalink
Mission146... the idea of the DI crowd is to have a "great roll" hitting lots of numbers. Sure you could shoot from the don't... load up the table with a few numbers and full odds and then 7 out, but that goes against the basic strategy of DI.

Yes, if you and your team had your own table you can do that. In fact, Ive seen "don't players" converge on the same table to have their fun of point-sevens.
hardten
hardten
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April 27th, 2013 at 6:46:47 PM permalink
Quote: TheWolf713

Hard ten what area in Texas are you close to?



Midland, Texas to be exact.
Mikey75
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April 27th, 2013 at 7:11:40 PM permalink
The DI that played at a table with me Thurs night was very mechanical in his throw. He held the dice the same way, tossed them with the same exact motion every time he touched the dice. He rolled 12 8's in 19 rolls. Problem was he wasn't setting to roll a 8 and wouldn't bet on the 8 at all. He sevened out just like everyone else at the table did. He got mad about something while he was rolling. He stepped back from the table and tryed to relax himself, stepped back up and throwed a seven. I will say this his rolls on average had lasted longer than most anyone else's. After he sevened out that last time he grabbed his chips and stormed off. The dealers where calling him robo arm because of his robotic like movements. Talking among themselves after he left they all stated that DI wasn't possible. Their reasoning? If it was the casino wouldn't allow it.
AxelWolf
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April 27th, 2013 at 7:26:05 PM permalink
Quote: Mikey75

. I will say this his rolls on average had lasted longer than most anyone else's. .

Because he probably took longer.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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April 27th, 2013 at 7:43:18 PM permalink
I Wish people would stop quoting DEALERS or using dealers stories to help or hurt an argument or view even if it supports my views. It's like having the most unpopular kid in school tell everyone you're his best friend. Most dealers are IGNORANT SHEEP they go by whatever they are told, their judgment is clouded horribly from seeing to many selective memory winning or losing streaks. I have had dealers give HORRIBLE advice and say the stupidest things it seems more then the average person. Yes some dealers are smart but generally they move on to something better.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Ahigh
Ahigh
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April 27th, 2013 at 8:54:44 PM permalink
Nobody will ever know!
aahigh.com
tupp
tupp
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April 27th, 2013 at 11:11:22 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Let me spell it out for you, bucko. You starry eyed dreamers who believe in the possibility of dice setting actually working have the burden of proof, not me.


No. The "burden of proof" is not on anyone just because you say so.

Furthermore, resorting to name calling and faulty characterizations of others never helps ones position.


Quote: MrV

Under the standard method of scientific anaysis, a proposition is deemed unproven unless or until it is objectively proven.


Okay. Please objectively prove the proposition that dice influencing is absolutely impossible.


Quote: MrV

OK, your move ...


I think that the biggest difference between us is that one of us uses this forum for dueling and for dubious verbal attacks, while the other simply wants to participate in earnest explorations of possibilities and in seeking truth.
Mooseton
Mooseton
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April 27th, 2013 at 11:48:24 PM permalink
In my humble opinion DI is possible. Short rolling you can easily influence the dice. If u can get away with that, then yes DI is possible.

Can at least that be agreed upon?

Should be, it's easy.
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
tupp
tupp
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April 28th, 2013 at 12:08:54 AM permalink
Quote: Mooseton

In my humble opinion DI is possible. Short rolling you can easily influence the dice. If u can get away with that, then yes DI is possible. Can at least that be agreed upon?


Most would agree that influencing a short/blanket roll is possible and that one can occasionally "get away with that." However, it is not a method that could be sustained, nor do most find intentionally employing such rolls ethically (or "legally") acceptable.

Furthermore, most DIs do not train in short rolls, so they would probably not do very well with them. More importantly, DIs do not want to risk getting attention/heat from the pit staff for short rolls.
AlanMendelson
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April 28th, 2013 at 1:22:24 AM permalink
Theoretically, the WHOLE BALL OF WAX is possible. I just haven't seen anyone do it with the consistency to make me believe they have the skill to do it enough that it will make a difference when they play.

Until a so-called DI doesn't need "luck" then it is a skill. A professional baseball player doesn't need luck to throw a fast ball into the strike zone -- and using that analogy, a skilled DI shouldn't need "luck" to hit his numbers or avoid hitting numbers.

And it doesn't hurt to try... so we try.
tupp
tupp
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April 28th, 2013 at 2:15:03 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Theoretically, the WHOLE BALL OF WAX is possible. I just haven't seen anyone do it with the consistency to make me believe they have the skill to do it enough that it will make a difference when they play.


Perhaps you are expecting too much.


Quote: AlanMendelson

Until a so-called DI doesn't need "luck" then it is a skill.


Not sure if you said exactly what you meant, but everyone has good and bad days, especially at such a difficult task.


Quote: AlanMendelson

A professional baseball player doesn't need luck to throw a fast ball into the strike zone -- and using that analogy, a skilled DI shouldn't need "luck" to hit his numbers or avoid hitting numbers.


A faulty analogy in numerous ways. Any pitcher can throw the ball into the strike zone -- dice influencing is much more of a challenge than that. A pitcher often intentionally avoids the strike zone, but a dice influencer tries for a non-loss roll on every toss. A pitcher must make almost every pitch "count," but a dice influencer only needs to ensure about one non-loss roll in fifty rolls. etc.

A more accurate version of such an analogy might be, "Very few major league baseball pitchers can get average over 8 strikeouts per game -- skilled DIs that can average one ensured non-loss rolls in 25 are just as rare."
AxelWolf
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April 28th, 2013 at 2:23:42 AM permalink
I'm willing to except short rolls within reason as long as the casino lets the roll stand and pays you, often enough to have an overall advantage. For instance If AHigh tracked all of his casino rolls (verified) that he was paid on, short or not over an acceptable amount of rolls and it showed he could gain an edge over the casino. I WOULD BELIEVE and start practicing.
Math experts:
What's an acceptable amount of rolls ?
what kind of edge would you need in craps to say that's nearly impossible to be random?

I know there are extremely smart determined AP teams out there with tons of cash that would not have given up on this.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
petroglyph
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April 28th, 2013 at 10:08:12 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Theoretically, the WHOLE BALL OF WAX is possible. I just haven't seen anyone do it with the consistency to make me believe they have the skill to do it enough that it will make a difference when they play.

Until a so-called DI doesn't need "luck" then it is a skill. A professional baseball player doesn't need luck to throw a fast ball into the strike zone -- and using that analogy, a skilled DI shouldn't need "luck" to hit his numbers or avoid hitting numbers.

And it doesn't hurt to try... so we try.



If a professional pitcher doesn't need luck to make strike's, why does he get four misses before the batter walks?
When the pitch hit's the batter, is that an accident or assault?
How bout the batter, to get a hit does he need luck? He can miss 27 innings in a row and still
get paid millions of dollars. Using those parameters, I could be a di.
Most people would except that they are both bi's, ball influencer's.
AlanMendelson
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April 28th, 2013 at 10:22:21 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

If a professional pitcher doesn't need luck to make strike's, why does he get four misses before the batter walks?



This question is really the essence, I think, of your misunderstanding about the sport of baseball. Every major league pitcher can throw a fast ball into the strike zone. it's a basic skill. The reason why pitchers don't throw fast balls directly into the strike zone is because if they throw the ball with predictability as in right across the letters every batter will hit the ball out of the park. So pitchers change where the pitch will reach the batter -- sometimes high, sometimes low, sometimes inside.

the game of baseball gives batters three chances to swing and hit. the game only allows only four bad pitches within a reasonable area for the batter to try to swing.

In craps, a "dice influencer" does not have to contend with a batter. All the DI has to do is pitch strikes. If there were no batter a pitcher could hit the strike zone every time till he got too tired to do it. Can a DI throw the dice and hit his "zone" every time till he gets tired? It's possible, but I haven't seen it.

Quote: tupp

Any pitcher can throw the ball into the strike zone -- dice influencing is much more of a challenge than that.



Exactly right, tupp, which is why I am yet to see anyone show that they can influence the dice with any consistency. Until you or anyone can throw the dice by design as consistently as a pitcher can throw a strike, DIs have not mastered any skill.

But keep trying....
MrV
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April 28th, 2013 at 10:30:21 AM permalink
Quote: tupp

Please objectively prove the proposition that dice influencing is absolutely impossible.



Obviously you know nothing of the scientific method.

Google it, then try again.
"What, me worry?"
TheWolf713
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April 28th, 2013 at 10:46:51 AM permalink
as far as that Robo-arm shooter... "most players don't even know how to bet on themselves properly"

Possibility is not proof. Doubt is not truth. There is only what "is" and what "is not"... And there "is not" one person who has proved it yet..

A professional pitcher "is" what he "is" without a doubt. But a. DI on the other hand.... Has more holes than Swiss cheese.
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
AxelWolf
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April 28th, 2013 at 11:11:13 AM permalink
Ahigh how about this as a challenge? Get a random person and then give him a 20 minute lesson on how to DI. Then have him toss the Dice trying to Control the dice the best he can. Then you do the same. Make sure you Video record all the tosses of each person then edit the video to block out both shooters or don't record him/her in the first place. Then randomly mix up the filmed tosses so you don't know who pitched the dice. Then play back the film slowly. You should be able to pick out all your own throws from the other persons, with lets say 90% accuracy right? I think if you can do that more people may start to be more open minded, I would. I think I can get my GF to come on your show she may have tossed dice twice total playing craps match plays. Shes a younger hot blonde, Most people say shes very sexy so you may get some more viewers.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
petroglyph
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April 28th, 2013 at 1:27:37 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

This question is really the essence, I think, of your misunderstanding about the sport of baseball. Every major league pitcher can throw a fast ball into the strike zone. it's a basic skill. The reason why pitchers don't throw fast balls directly into the strike zone is because if they throw the ball with predictability as in right across the letters every batter will hit the ball out of the park. So pitchers change where the pitch will reach the batter -- sometimes high, sometimes low, sometimes inside.

the game of baseball gives batters three chances to swing and hit. the game only allows only four bad pitches within a reasonable area for the batter to try to swing.

In craps, a "dice influencer" does not have to contend with a batter. All the DI has to do is pitch strikes. If there were no batter a pitcher could hit the strike zone every time till he got too tired to do it. Can a DI throw the dice and hit his "zone" every time till he gets tired? It's possible, but I haven't seen it.



Exactly right, tupp, which is why I am yet to see anyone show that they can influence the dice with any consistency. Until you or anyone can throw the dice by design as consistently as a pitcher can throw a strike, DIs have not mastered any skill.

But keep trying....



Alan, No harm or foul intended.
Sometimes the comedy of situations causes me to reply quicker than I should, not grasping the seriousness of the matter. My bad.
The essence of my reply was not so much a misunderstanding of baseball but levity.
Craps is not a professional sport. I don't think of drink swilling, cigar smoking, chip throwing loud mouth dice setter's as athlete's.
The hilarity of the comparison overwhelmed me.

Instead of Major league baseball, craps is more like T-ball
EvenBob
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April 28th, 2013 at 1:50:28 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

I don't think of drink swilling, cigar smoking, chip throwing loud mouth dice setter's as athlete's.
The hilarity of the comparison overwhelmed me.



Hey! The masked dice thrower at Ahigh's house reminded
me of the masked pro wrestler Mr X, who was for sure an
athlete. Take back what you said..

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
tupp
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April 28th, 2013 at 2:34:04 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

Any pitcher can throw the ball into the strike zone -- dice influencing is much more of a challenge than that.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Exactly right, tupp, which is why I am yet to see anyone show that they can influence the dice with any consistency. Until you or anyone can throw the dice by design as consistently as a pitcher can throw a strike, DIs have not mastered any skill. But keep trying....


Consistency in dice influencing doesn't have to be as high as that of a baseball pitcher's ability to throw a strike.

You pulled my quote from a larger context of other reasons that demonstrate how baseball pitching and dice influencing are two very different tasks. I also followed that list of differences with a simple baseball example that is more accurate than the one you gave.

I will try an even more oversimplified baseball example in the hope that you will understand the concept: the task of dice influencing is akin to a baseball pitcher trying to throw a strike from the center field wall.

Please think about the difficulty of that task.

Now, I am going to elaborate on this oversimplified example.

Just because this task is so difficult, that doesn't mean that it can't be done successfully. Due of the increased challenge for the pitcher, the rules are different in our new baseball scenario:
- the pitcher makes a point on every strike;
- the pitcher loses a point when he makes a wild pitch that the catcher cannot catch from his position directly behind home plate;
- the pitcher wins if he has at least one point at the end of the game;
- every other pitch fielded by the catcher is inconsequential.

(By the way, there is no batter in this new game.)

Now the task is more doable -- the pitcher's skill might result in an occasional strike. There will also be a few strikes that result more from luck, but there is no sure way to tell which result from a little luck and which result completely from skill (but the pitcher can sort of tell from the feel of the pitch). There will also be some wild pitches that the catcher cannot field without leaving his position. Some games will have erratic wind gusts.

Nevertheless, the pitcher tries to do his best on every pitch.

Here is the important part -- to be successful, the pitcher only has to ensure that he can prevent one wild pitch in every 50 pitches. By preventing that one wild pitch, most pitchers' point-winning pitches will edge-out their point-losing pitches by one point per game.

So, the pitcher doesn't have to throw a strike on every pitch (despite the fact that there is someone on an obscure Internet gambling forum who continually insists that the only way to know if the pitcher has skill is if he can throw a strike on every pitch).

Can you make all of the connections between this hypothetical baseball scenario and the task of dice influencing?
tupp
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April 28th, 2013 at 2:46:38 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

I don't think of drink swilling, cigar smoking, chip throwing loud mouth dice setter's as athlete's.


Ignorance is often revealed in one's statements.

As it has been said before to others in this forum, you probably don't know what you are looking at.
petroglyph
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April 28th, 2013 at 4:20:02 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

Ignorance is often revealed in one's statements.

As it has been said before to others in this forum, you probably don't know what you are looking at.

I don't understand your intent here? And, I don't really want to accept the way it appears at first glance.

What are you saying, tupp?

AxelWolf
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April 28th, 2013 at 5:01:36 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Ahigh how about this as a challenge? Get a random person and then give him a 20 minute lesson on how to DI. Then have him toss the Dice trying to Control the dice the best he can. Then you do the same. Make sure you Video record all the tosses of each person then edit the video to block out both shooters or don't record him/her in the first place. Then randomly mix up the filmed tosses so you don't know who pitched the dice. Then play back the film slowly. You should be able to pick out all your own throws from the other persons, with lets say 90% accuracy right? I think if you can do that more people may start to be more open minded, I would. I think I can get my GF to come on your show she may have tossed dice twice total playing craps match plays. Shes a younger hot blonde, Most people say shes very sexy so you may get some more viewers.

Anybody else think this may be interesting assuming the other shooter could mimic a so called controlled shot?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SanchoPanza
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April 28th, 2013 at 5:46:53 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Theoretically, the WHOLE BALL OF WAX is possible. I just haven't seen anyone do it with the consistency to make me believe they have the skill to do it enough that it will make a difference when they play.

Quote: tupp

Perhaps you are expecting too much.

Tupp: In that event, what criteria would you suggest as a valid or good measure of consistency?
Ahigh
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April 28th, 2013 at 5:51:27 PM permalink
I'm not really interested in that. I've been spending more time in the casino and less time at my own table.

No plans for any shows unless/until I feel motivated, and right now my motivation level for shows or doing anything on my table at home is pretty low given a variety of circumstances.

Today I installed a security camera. Yesterday I gambled at several casinos. I was sick the previous 5 days. My work has been keeping me unusually busy too.
aahigh.com
AlanMendelson
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April 28th, 2013 at 5:52:48 PM permalink
Tupp... skill is skill. There is no question that there are many pitchers with the skill to throw a fastball into the strike zone. it can be done and repeated on demand. The same cannot be said of throwing dice.

When a "dice influencer" can show true dice influencing on each and every roll so that the dice return a desired number (and not merely avoiding a 7 which any random shooter can accomplish one out of six times) then we can consider dice influencing to exist.

Even your buddy Ahigh on his TV show was saying when he felt a throw showed influence and when it didnt.
EvenBob
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April 28th, 2013 at 5:53:02 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

what criteria would you suggest as a valid or good measure of consistency?



Do it when you say you will, like Annie Oakley
shooting the cigarette out of the princes mouth.
Its a skill or it isn't.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Ahigh
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April 28th, 2013 at 5:56:29 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Even your buddy Ahigh



You guys argue a lot.
aahigh.com
tupp
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April 28th, 2013 at 6:44:00 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Tupp... skill is skill. There is no question that there are many pitchers with the skill to throw a fastball into the strike zone. it can be done and repeated on demand. The same cannot be said of throwing dice.


We seem to have a problem differentiating skill from results (we also seem to have problems comprehending posts of others).

You say that many pitchers have skill to pitch a fastball into the strike zone repeatedly, on-demand. If you were to stand those same pitchers at the center field wall, do you think that they could still hit the strike zone on-demand repeatedly? I would guess that even you would answer this question with a "no."

Now, do you think that those many pitchers with skill pitching from the mound have suddenly lost their throwing skill because they cannot pitch strikes on-demand, repeatedly from the center field wall?

Please address this last question.
tupp
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April 28th, 2013 at 6:50:46 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Tupp: In that event, what criteria would you suggest as a valid or good measure of consistency?


Most of the same results criteria that we have discussed over numerous threads, but we could just keep it simple by using the seven-to-rolls ratio.
tupp
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April 28th, 2013 at 6:53:45 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Do it when you say you will, like Annie Oakley shooting the cigarette out of the princes mouth. Its a skill or it isn't.


You really believe that's how it works, don't you?
AlanMendelson
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April 28th, 2013 at 6:54:30 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

You seem to have a problem differentiating skill from results (you also seem to have problems comprehending posts of others).

You say that many pitchers have skill to pitch a fastball into the strike zone repeatedly, on-demand. If you were to stand those same pitchers at the center field wall, do you think that they could still hit the strike zone on-demand repeatedly? I would guess that even you would answer this question with a "no."

Now, do you think that those many pitchers with skill pitching from the mound have suddenly lost their throwing skill because they cannot pitch strikes on-demand, repeatedly from the center field wall?

Please address this last question.



Pitchers have a skill: its called pitching. Pitching is from the mound to the strike zone. What kind of silly argument are you trying to dream up about hitting a strike zone from center field?

Please explain this.
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