2 tales of the same event - ruined by Biased dice

I believe all reports of great rolls. Why? Because there are enough shooters at enough tables at enough casinos that ANYTHING can happen and anything will happen. I was at table at Caesars where a random roller threw a YO eighteen times in a row. (And no one was on it, even once.)

I was at another table at Caesars when a young girl threw six eights in a row. Each time the point was 8. so it was point 8, winner, and then point-8 winner and then point 8-winner.

This stuff happens.

If there is any point to make here, it's that while anything can happen no one has the skill or ability to make anything happen with regularity or with the confidence that it will happen again.

I threw the hard six at Caesars three times in a row on two different tables on two separate dates -- about four years apart. Because of that can I claim any talent for throwing multiple hard sixes? Of course not.

My sister at NYNY back in 2001 threw 11 craps numbers in row... ON THE COME OUT ROLL. Can she claim to have an ability to do it again? I don't know, she's a random roller but another time at MGM she threw craps numbers six times in a row. Does it mean anything? No. But we tell her she's full of craps.

Stuff happens. There are gazillions of rolls at craps tables all over the country 24 hours of day.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I was at table at Caesars where a random roller threw a YO eighteen times in a row. (And no one was on it, even once.).

The odds of this happening are about the same as picking the right 6 numbers out of 49 to win a lottery, 3 million billion times in a row (not including the assertion no one would bet it.)

There were only three of us at the table. And we all knew that betting the "yo" is a "bad bet" with a high house edge. Yes, we kept telling ourselves that... all 18 times.

Lets not forget that this thread is about,..
“2 tales of the same event - ruined by Biased dice”

Quote:

AlanMendelson
I was at table at Caesars where a random roller threw a YO eighteen times in a row. (And no one was on it, even once.).

Quote:

cowboy
The odds of this happening are about the same as picking the right 6 numbers out of 49 to win a lottery, 3 million billion times in a row (not including the assertion no one would bet it.)

Look we all see some strange things happen on the tables from time to time if we play long enough, but some things that some writers claim to have happened are just so outlandish that they are laughable! What is even funnier is that the math guys that reside here don’t jump all over these outlandish claims to fame, that they let these guys get away with it! Now I’m no math guy but I do have common sense when it comes to reading some of this BS that is written and calling it just that, BS! When you read something like the quote below, do you really think that happened, or are you just giving the writer a free-pass because you like what he writes?

Quote:

Dear Karl:
Last month in Atlantic City I rolled 11 eights in 12 rolls and then went on to roll 26 eights out of 45 numbers for that particular turn with the dice. I have seen rolls even better. My dice-control partner, Jerry “Stickman” clobbered the Grand (now Harrah’s) in Tunica with 23 sixes out of 28 numbers! I think that was a roll of a lifetime.
Frank Scoblete

What are the odds of either one of these claims happening? No Frank I’m not going to waste my time writing to Stickman and asking if these rolls happened. He was the your only witness as you said, and guess what you were his only witness, just like all those other claims to fame that you have no other outside witnesses too!

Nobody ever saw your Captain, that wasn’t a partner to your school, most of the guys that are no-longer with your school, you have done a character assassination on.
You have tried to make like they were the bad guys! When most of your past partners are some of the nicest guys that you will ever meet on a craps tables.

I look at this stuff, as Frank needs to sell books, and what better way of selling book then having great stories to sell them! Now if Frank had ten witnesses at the table that were not his instructors of business partners, there would be no reason to question this!
As I always say,... isn’t it funny that all these fantastic rolls only happen when no one is around!

.

Quote: superrick

Quote:

AlanMendelson
I was at table at Caesars where a random roller threw a YO eighteen times in a row. (And no one was on it, even once.).

Quote:

cowboy
The odds of this happening are about the same as picking the right 6 numbers out of 49 to win a lottery, 3 million billion times in a row (not including the assertion no one would bet it.)

Look we all see some strange things happen on the tables from time to time if we play long enough, but some things that some writers claim to have happened are just so outlandish that they are laughable! What is even funnier is that the math guys that reside here don’t jump all over these outlandish claims to fame, that they let these guys get away with it! Now I’m no math guy but I do have common sense when it comes to reading some of this BS that is written and calling it just that, BS! When you read something like the quote below, do you really think that happened, or are you just giving the writer a free-pass because you like what he writes?

.

Umm, the point of my post (which did involve some math work) was to call the 18 Yos in a row BS... but in a nice way.

Quote: cowboy

The odds of this happening are about the same as picking the right 6 numbers out of 49 to win a lottery, 3 million billion times in a row (not including the assertion no one would bet it.)

Over 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot.....perhaps as much as 90% when winning an argument is at stake. :)

I figured the analogy was more understandable than a number to the power of 10 to the minus 23.

Quote: cowboy

Umm, the point of my post (which did involve some math work) was to call the 18 Yos in a row BS... but in a nice way.

Why would I BS about the roll when it wasn't mine? I was just standing there with my thumb up my butt saying to myself "why didn't I bet just $5 on the yo?"

But why don't you ask James, one of the Caesars originals, who was the stickman. Twice during that 18 roll streak he stopped to check the dice.

Of course had I claimed to have been the one who rolled 18 yos in a row, I would fully expect you to challenge what I said. But you're going to challenge my saying that I stood there like a dumb piece of meat while some kid on stick right threw what could have been the parlay of a lifetime? Gee? Of all the times to call something BS I think this one takes the cake. And I am cerainly glad I didn't claim to have made any money on that roll -- because your criticism might have had some credibility.

The odds of the occurrence do not change dependent on who is rolling and they are so phenomenal the claim lacks credibility.

Well then Im glad you don't believe it. Because now I feel like less of a dumb jerk for not betting five bucks. Oh, and welcome to the Forum. I'm sure you will make a lot of positive contributions here.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Well then Im glad you don't believe it. Because now I feel like less of a dumb jerk for not betting five bucks. Oh, and welcome to the Forum. I'm sure you will make a lot of positive contributions here.

Actually I did screw up the analogy. The odds of rolling 18 Yos in a row are only about the same as picking the winning lottery numbers three times in a row. Sorry.

You are certainly not a dumb jerk. I wouldn't have bet on it happening either.

Thanks for the hospitality.

Quote: cowboy

Actually I did screw up the analogy. The odds of rolling 18 Yos in a row are only about the same as picking the winning lottery numbers three times in a row. Sorry.

It's funny you mentioned that. My former neighbor in Valencia, Calif won the California pick 6 lottery twice in one year. Once for about $4.3-million and once for about $2.1 million. This was back in the 1980s when jackpots werent as big.

Do you want to figure the odds on that?

Assuming a winner is the right 6 out of 6, choosing from about 50 numbers, that's about 1 in 200 trillion to one.

That's the kind of luck that you need to get to rub off on you.

I have heard reports of others winning big prizes in lotteries on more than one occasion. It boggles the mind!

I suppose your neighbor spent it on booze, women and gambling, and the rest he just wasted.

Yeah, I heard Ron Harris got really lucky too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Dale_Harris

These things do in fact happen!

Quote: cowboy

I suppose your neighbor spent it on booze, women and gambling, and the rest he just wasted.

No, but it's a better story. He immediately retired, and created a one-man police force to enforce our community's CCRs: If your grass needed to be cut he'd tell you. If the leaves weren't raked he'd tell you. If your trim on the windows needed painting he would tell you.

And then one day it all went too far. One of the neighbors had her house repainted... but she used the WRONG shade of gray. He went ballistic and went right to the HOA and demanded that she have her house repainted because it was the wrong shade of gray. Not the wrong color, mind you -- but the wrong shade of gray.

I was with the news then... so I couldn't do the story myself. But another reporter at my station did do the story, interviewing the homeowner and the neighbors and showed up at the HOA meeting where the board backed down and said "well, it is the wrong shade but in a few months the shade will change from exposure to the sun, so it's okay."

After that the one-man police force stopped enforcing the CCRs. He would still drive his new Lexus up and down the streets looking for trouble but he never said anything about grass or bushes or painting the trim again.

Alan M

I asked you about what you thought on the Videos that I posted on a different thread, and whether or not you would say that they shooter had any control over the dice, only because you are the one that has described what you think is a controlled shot. For you it had to be what you read in SharpShooters book and that is what you thought a controlled shot look like!

So these videos are pretty important to someone making a claim that there crew are all controlled shooters. In Ahigh's videos you were pretty adamant about what you thought was a controlled shot, saying that nothing that he did looked controlled to you. So after looking at these videos do you think they are controll shooters?

http://www.casinotube.com/casino-games/craps/golden-touch-craps-practice-1

http://www.casinotube.com/casino-games/craps/golden-touch-craps-practice-2

http://www.casinotube.com/casino-games/craps/golden-touch-craps-practice-3

http://www.casinotube.com/casino-games/craps/golden-touch-craps-practice-4

All through that video # 4,.. I was waiting for the finger snap, that make some shooter famous, are these shots controlled shots when they are bouncing from the center of table to the right side of the table. How would you rate them?

http://www.casinotube.com/casino-games/craps/golden-touch-craps-practice-8

After watching this last video, if I was FS I would have deleted all the footage and started over again.
Honestly guys do any of you really think that this is controlling the dice?

I would have loved to see what those dice ended up on, do you all think that there were no 7's in all those throws?
Did miracles happen when they were making these videos or was it just the fact that no one could see what points the dice were landing on?
Instead of calling these videos practice sessions, they should have called them lessons in sleight of hand, because they look like something a magician would do, where you never quite see the right angle to see what is really happening!

Yes,.. the shooting they did in these videos was magic indeed, it was a real eye opener for me, even after seeing these guys shoot in the casinos! The thing that I would like to know is can they dominate the craps tables from any place besides SR1 and SL1, what the hell would happen if they walked up to a craps table and those two spots weren't open?

I hope that anybody that watched these videos was as amused as I was, because I surely was laughing all the way through them! If these were the videos FS was writing about, he should find a different video producer, where everybody can see what was happening with those dice, after they hit the felt!

Superick



Thanks very much for posting these, i have not seen them for awhile and enjoyed them.

I have seen all these guys throw, and you may have as well.

The interesting point revealed by these throws is the basis for all this give and take about
dice control..... Anyone that understands this stuff can see there were some very great
throws. Frank has a very soft throw, you can also see some rolls where the dice took
off on landing and did not stay right by the back wall.

So the question is what is control and can you see it. These guys are very consistant, yet
not every roll is perfect. The core issue for most guys is having enough good rolls to get
repeating numbers. To have a long roll you need some luck, the running dice have to be kind to
you.

It is also helpful to see the better guys and understand that not all your rolls are great, and
just hope your throw is good enough.

dicesetter

I have to agree with superrick on this one....

Those dice were everywhere...

Quote: AlanMendelson

It's funny you mentioned that. My former neighbor in Valencia, Calif won the California pick 6 lottery twice in one year. Once for about $4.3-million and once for about $2.1 million. This was back in the 1980s when jackpots werent as big.

Do you want to figure the odds on that?

Back in the 80`s many of the pick six lotteries only had 36 0r 42 numbers still a long shot but nothing like 18 Yo`s in a row.

superrick, I don't know why you are asking me about the throws in the videos because you know I don't believe in dice control.

No, I don't think any of those guys "control" the dice.

I'll give them credit for a soft throw that hits the center of the back wall but that's it.

Their influence is limited in that it does hit the center of the back wall (flat part) and the throws are soft. And that's all.

I have said before that I don't know of anyone who can deliver an "influenced" or "controlled" dice shot enough times to actually have a measurable impact on the game, and completely random shooters have had better results than any so-called DI or DC I have ever seen and that includes the surgeon and the mystery player.

Heck, the best rolls I've ever been on which lasted more than an hour were thrown by random shooters with the dice flying all over the place and these players I don't recall even bothered to set the dice.

The young man who threw the 18 yos in a row was a random shooter who picked em up and threw em.

But with all of that said, there is no harm in trying. I try. I think everyone should try to set and influence and control. It is part of the game. And it makes craps the only game in a casino with a test of a physical skill. Blackjack and video poker are tests of mental skills.

Re-check these landings. Note how many are in a "V" shape. That is, they hit the back wall and go in two directions but tend to make the same movements, stop about the same distance from the back wall. I have a full discussion of how this works in "Cutting Edge Craps." In class I used to demonstrate how a "V" shape occurs. Re-watch and you'll see what I am saying.

There is a mistaken belief that the landing must have the dice right next to each other to be successful; this is not so. If the dice make basically the same movements, they do not have to wind up next to each other. This is what I call "correspondence."

The actual end results are shown in the landing section of the DVD. So you do get to see the landings. None of these shots were edited or fixed in any way. You will see some shots that actually do stink and are random. At the end of the DVD we statistically analyze all the shots.

I didn't look at the other links. I do know we did one "on the run" video that really stunk. Dom would shoot, I would call out what he hit. We had one camera, a cheesy one. The video really sucked. "Film in haste; repent at leisure." The end result of the throws is what I called but you could not see anything other than the throw. It was (is) an embarrassing effort.

Frank, I would give your position a few extra "points" if the dice traveled equally after the bounce off the back wall, but they don't, so that's where you lose control. After that it's all luck. Now there is nothing wrong with what you are doing because you are trying to put some constraints on the movement of the dice, and that's good. I just don't think you can claim to have any "control."

Almost Alan, but not quite. There is something you are missing. We aren't getting perfection on the throws but we are getting a corresponding relationship. Look at how close the dice are in terms of the top of the "V" line to being in a straight line. If one die is off the other die by one or three spins (flips) or three or five spins and you can do that time after time (except on the ones where you can't do it!) then you have a controlled throw (or an influenced throw as you call it). If you look at the video, I think you will see just that. (The Hardway set is the one being used.)

After this video was made, I analyzed thousands of dice throws from great shooters and correspondence seemed to be the explanation for their success. It was a consistency in landing and the relationship of the dice to each other.

Here is something else to consider --- with a slight change in the topic --- in our classes anywhere from 12 to 20 instructors demonstrated their throws; live, right in front of the students, on craps tables. There is no hiding when you do a live demonstration; the good, the great, the bad and the ugly throws are all right there. If this were just flim-flam or delusion or scamming or anything of that nature, a live demonstration that all the students watched is certainly proof that the technique is real. In addition, if a student did not feel he got what we said he would get we'd refund his money.

In my 10 years with Golden Touch no one ever asked for his money back. (By the way I am no longer doing any dice control classes with Golden Touch; I am off on another adventure with my wife the Beautiful A.P.)

We've had plenty of notable students too. Among them John Grochowski, Henry Tamburin, Stanford Wong, Gus Rose and Don Catlin.

I think if you watch the video of my throws you will see exactly what I am stating above. Had you taken the class during the years I was with Golden Touch I would have shown throws to you in person as I did for a decade.

Alan



With all due respect, i think you need to look at the tapes again.... i watched them 3 times now
and in the shots that show the dice hitting there is no question there is an influence over the
dice on 80% of Stickmans throws, most of Doms and Franks. You would have to be completely
blind not to see the relationship from one roll to another.

I would expect as i have told you before, if you expect every roll to have the dice do exactly the
same thing to have "your definition" of dice control, that does not happen and most times wont, but 100%
control is different than influence. An srr of 7.5 shows influence, not 100% control, that type of control
would mean you would never throw a 7. Now you and I both know that is silly, and so is demanding
that type of control to show influence.

You and i are about the same age, we have both been playing close to 40 years, i was a random
player for 35 years.... and there is no question in my mind what we see on these tapes shows
what Frank says it does, and having taken the classes, he is correct, all the instructors show their
rolls and how to improve ours.

Dicesetter

Alan M

The reason I'm asking you in particular is because of what you have described as a controlled shot, where you say it has to look just like what is in Sharpshooters book, so I therefore value your opinion on whether or not these shots are controlled!

Quote: Alan M

superrick, I don't know why you are asking me about the throws in the videos because you know I don't believe in dice control.

No, I don't think any of those guys "control" the dice.

If this is what these so-called DI's are paying thousands of dollars to learn, they are throwing their money away! All I saw was a bunch of sleight of hand, where they didn't let anybody see how the dice ended up. Who knows how many of those rolls were sevens.

Frank is also claiming that “Jerry Stickman” was the one that had the 23 ,..6's in a 28 roll, from what I saw with him shooting in these videos, there is no way that would ever happen. The pressure must have really been on when they did those videos, and they all choked, even with no players on the table or chips in their way.

Frank S may be one hell of a writer, but his shooting in these videos left a lot to be desired, if you guys want to come to his defense by saying he has a soft touch when he is throwing the dice, what good is that if he's not making points. If anybody is going to produce a video to show how great of a shot they are, wouldn't all of you think that they would have shown the outcomes of the dice?

No they just mopped the dice back as fast as they could so nobody could see the real out comes of the dice.

Frank please show us a video of you shooting where everybody can see the dice landing and what the outcome is on every shot you make, with no editing. That way we can all marvel at your great shooting, if Ahigh can do it, then you should have no problem doing it either.
If you can produce a video like that I will apologize, to you and your shooters. but if you can't how in the hell do you expect anybody to believe the numbers you are calling out are the numbers that are on the dice, if your audience can't see the dice?

When anybody makes an outrageous claim like you did with the 23 ,..6's in a 28 roll, other players should be able to see what kind of a real shooter the guy you claimed had that roll is.

Quote: Frank Scoblete

Dear Karl:
Last month in Atlantic City I rolled 11 eights in 12 rolls and then went on to roll 26 eights out of 45 numbers for that particular turn with the dice. I have seen rolls even better. My dice-control partner, Jerry “Stickman” clobbered the Grand (now Harrah’s) in Tunica with 23 sixes out of 28 numbers! I think that was a roll of a lifetime.
Frank Scoblete

This claim is so outrageous everybody that reads it should fall down laughing! I wonder what the odds would be to roll 26 eight in a 45 roll, any of you math guys know the answer to that one?

Doesn't anybody ever question any of these outrageous claims that these writers makes, what is a matter with everybody, nobody wants to say BS!

So here is one more question for all you guys that play craps all the time, what was the most 6's or 8's you ever saw in one roll and what was the length of the roll?

[Those videos are from the Golden Touch DVD. I wonder how these are on the Internet? I never gave anyone permission to use them, nor did Dom or anyone else involved with GTC. I would think this is a violation of copyright laws. Since I am no longer with GTC, I'll just leave it to Dom to decide how to go about handling this.]

Anyway I'll repeat. Look at the videos of my throws and see how many are at the top of the "V" (in a straight line having done the same basic movements) and how many are one to three or three to five flips from each other. As I mentioned at the end of the DVD all the statistics are analyzed. At the landing section you will see all the landings. Nothing is hidden. Again, you can read a full discussion in "Cutting Edge Craps" about the "V" landings and some other facts about dice control that you won't find anywhere else.

I'll also repeat, all of us showed our throws in class, live, with students right at the tables. We didn't hide anything.

I already answered the number 8 coming up that many times and gave superrick a witness. He preferred to not contact the witness since obviously the witness witnessed it and it is hard to go hardline when the witness witnessed it. He is still free to contact that witness. He knows the fellow's email address.

I do have a feeling this thread will continue but I really have little more to say. I don't want to keep writing "As I said before" or "I'll repeat" or "I already answered that" or such. I'll get back to work on something else. Just watch the video of my throw and see that what I am saying about the "V" is right on the money.

Quote: FrankScoblete q

[Those videos are from the Golden Touch DVD. I wonder how these are on the Internet? I never gave anyone permission to use them, nor did Dom or anyone else involved with GTC. I would think this is a violation of copyright laws. Since I am no longer with GTC, I'll just leave it to Dom to decide how to go about handling this.]

Frank I thought these were something you put out, as usual I put the link to the videos, to show your shooting, if I was you, I would contact the site that put them out on the web, if it's not yours! After all I just googled "Golden Touch Craps" and these are the videos that came up! When you start throwing around copyrights and how to handel these videos, it looks like your not to proud of these videos. Do you have any that you would post to show us what a DI's shot should look like?

Quote: FrankScoblete q

I already answered the number 8 coming up that many times and gave superrick a witness. He preferred to not contact the witness since obviously the witness witnessed it and it is hard to go hardline when the witness witnessed it. He is still free to contact that witness. He knows the fellow's email address.

Come on Frank you don't really want me to write an Email to “Jerrysitckman” so he can witness your shooting and you can witness his shooting! If you don't think these claims you made are outrageous, you must live in a different world then everybody else, that plays craps all the time.

Quote: FrankScoblete q

Last month in Atlantic City I rolled 11 eights in 12 rolls and then went on to roll 26 eights out of 45 numbers for that particular turn with the dice.

So your sticking by your story that just about every other roll you made was an eight when you had that hand. You must have taking down the house on that roll, and if you did how many casinos can you still play in? Casinos do share information, please don't tell me that your banned from “Bellagio Casino”! We all have heard many different stories about why that happened. One of them was because you had all your students in there doing the five count, and nobody was betting on anybody! The casino just got tired of you using their table as a table to teach on!

Now for that roll your writing about with the 26 eights out of 45 rolls,.. what were the odds of something like this happening in a casino? Any of you math guys want to do the work on figuring out this math problem?

There are other versions from players that were at that table the day before you got banned! So who knows the real reason, it doesn't matter, but it wasn't from your shooting that day, because they would have banned you when you were at the table, not after the fact and the next day!

Now for these videos, some of the guys here think they are the greatest shooting videos they have every seen, so you might want to tell the “Dom” to leave them up! Can you please take the time out of your busy schedule to see if you can find any videos that you would be proud of posting as you have already say you have made more videos then the ones that are on that site! Maybe you can find something that was shot with two cameras so everybody can see the dice landing and we don't have to guess as to what the outcome was! After all it would be to your benefit to show how great of a shooter you really are, just think of how many books you would sell, after everybody saw you shooting. Hell maybe I would even buy one of your books that I don't already have! I've been on the tables with the guys that you write about and have seen their shooting. There are times just like everybody else they will get on a good roll, but random rollers do the same thing too! It all boils down to I have never seen anybody have any rolls like you are writing about!

Yes, superrick, these are from the Golden Touch videos from our DVD. I am perfectly content with my shooting in them and I explained why in a previous post. While they are up anyone from this site can check them out. For my throws on the last link, I would like you to think in terms of the "V" spread which I wrote about before. You will see clear and consistent relationships between the dice. If you don't know about the "V" spread then a little reseach would help and it might make you see those throws in a whole different light.

Of course, superrick,I would like you to believe me about the 8's but what can I do? You either believe it or you don't. You either get in contact with the witness (who actually did the counting) or you don't. Why not contact Jerry Stickman and find out the truth? It is hard for me to answer the kind of stuff you write when it is so off base, in fact it is so off base it isn't in the ballpark. I do realize that you have little use for me as I have read your past posts but I do think sometimes you shoot from the lip before you take aim. These constant miscues might just be because of the sources you claim to have and your faith in them.

One example of misinformation below should suffice:

I don't know about the many different stories about the Bellagio banning that you've heard and I have no idea what sources you have for the misinformation you keep relaying (weren't you saying in some past post that Dom and I had a falling out? what source gave you that?) but I must say not one of your sources seems to actually know anything. There were three other people at the table in Bellagio when I was banned --- John "Skinny," Jerry "Stickman," and Rob "Not Too Soon." But it wasn't at a craps table --- you see that is where your information falls flat. I was far, far away from a craps table. Indeed, I had not played craps the whole time I was at Bellagio. I didn't even go to a craps table; not once during that whole trip. Therefore, I have no idea who was a student, an instructor, a hanger-on, or anyone else at the craps tables. Whoever told you I had played at a craps table is totally wrong. Yet, you relay the information as if it is correct, just as you did with the Dom information just cited.

Now, before you cite a source that says it was at a blackjack table don't bother. It was not at a blackjack table either. None of your informants seems to know what happened or where it happened or why it happened and it certainly had nothing to do with players 5-Counting --- if players were 5-Counting. (By the way I wrote a whole article about where it happened and why I had not played craps that entire trip.)

As far as selling books; people will either buy my books or they won't. I'd love them to buy my books but again that is their choice. I think I write good books. Look, I know it is pleasurable to go after someone you seem to dislike. As I said, I have read your posts and I know you think I am a fabricator of stories that are often total hogwash. You prefer to think I lie about this or that and you cite sources as giving you this information. I think you have accused me of a number of dispicable things. I don't doubt you must believe all of this but seriously time after time I have shown what really happened.

Anyway, for other readers, just check out the video of my throws (it is the last video on his list) and carefully look to see what is really happening. Also, maybe go back and read superrick's previous posts about me and my responses to them (I didn't respond to all of them). I think you'll catch a clear tone in them. You can make your own decision about all that as well.

I am a great believer in Sharpshooter's method because he is an engineer who clearly definied the mechanics of how it is possible to influence or control dice. Frankly, if you can't do it his way, you're not doing it.

If you want to call it impossible to do it his way, I would say that for most people it is impossible.

On some rare occassions someone can do it "his way." I have seen that. But I have never seen anyone do it with the consistency needed to say that they are a dice controller.

In other words no one can throw the dice to the same degree that a major league pitcher can throw a fast fall into the strike zone.

but I think it's okay to try, and to practice. It's also okay to pay someone for coaching and to help you learn. Just be aware of the limitations.

Frank its OK

Superick got a call about me being in Laughflin and throwing.........laughing..... now that is funny
there is not a person in the world of craps, or probably any other kind of world that cares if i am in
Laughflin or anywhere else for that matter.

Dicesitter

Quote: superrick

Now for that roll your writing about with the 26 eights out of 45 rolls,.. what were the odds of something like this happening in a casino? Any of you math guys want to do the work on figuring out this math problem?

137,221,000,000 to 1. About 137 billion to one.

Wow! What would the odds be on 23 sixes in 28 throws? (I am assuming you are doing the odds based on a random shooter.)

Quote: FrankScoblete

Wow! What would the odds be on 23 sixes in 28 throws? (I am assuming you are doing the odds based on a random shooter.)

you mean Single 6's (boxcars count as 2 hits)?

1 in 74,824 (unlikely, but it is possible from a random shooter).

For at least 23 12's "boxcars" in 28 throws... 1 in 7,262,321,027,337,020,000,000,000,000,000

If you mean rolling the total of 6 at least 23 times in 28 dice throws, 1 in 1,086,800,000,000,000

I would like to be clear since I somewhat "chewed you out" for not fully understanding your last story where I didn't consider all the possibiliities.

Quote: FrankScoblete

Wow! What would the odds be on 23 sixes in 28 throws? (I am assuming you are doing the odds based on a random shooter.)

Yes for sure a random shooter. If you want to provide the odds for a DI/DC shooter to get a 6 on any one toss, I can give you the figure for him to perform the same feat.

Careful - even if you tell me he can do it 50% of the time, his odds of get 23 or more out of 28 are worse than 2000 to 1.

Cowboy, thanks. The six was the number six on two dice not the six pips.

One more, if you don't mind, 78 rolls of the dice with only one seven showing up?

Quote: FrankScoblete

Wow! What would the odds be on 23 sixes in 28 throws? (I am assuming you are doing the odds based on a random shooter.) /

Is that all you have to say Frank, how about you coming up with the math on what you call a control shooter, seeing how nobody has ever really proved that there are real DI’s out there, Why don’t you do it with the odds of a DI with the SRR of 28 it would fit right in with all the other BS that is written about being a DI. Now this is coming from someone that everybody calls a DI, the only difference is that I tell it like it is.

Frank the odds would still be 137,221,000,000 to 1. About 137 billion to one, and that’s not BS!

Quote: FrankScoblete

Cowboy, thanks. The six was the number six on two dice not the six pips.

One more, if you don't mind, 78 rolls of the dice with only one seven showing up?

Just under 100,000 to 1 for a random shooter. Specify the SRR for a DI/DC of your choice and I can give you something more exact.

Quote: Superrick

One of the things I tell any DI that is moving here is to never get a players card at any of the casinos you are going to play at, if you can’t buy something with the money you took off the tables you shouldn’t be playing craps.

Superrick,

Why do you argue that DC and DI doesn't exist, but continue making statements like the one above. Also, because you attack Frank so often, It looks like you're jealous that most people look towards Frank Scoblete as being the dice expert, rather than you.

Are you jealous of Frank?

Quote: TheWolf713

I know how superrick feels... If you are shooting well everytime you hit these spots... You will catch a lot if heat. And the heat comes specifically because of the "DI" phenomenon.. I can't tell you how many times I hear these words when I get the dice... "hey that's the guy who had the big rolls these past few weeks. He shoots like those DI videos". Minimums get raised, extra suits touch the floor all because some guy wrote some stuff a few years ago..

The Wolf713

Exactly Wolf713

Keyser, You just do not get it, it has nothing to do with jealousy. It has to do with the spreading of BS and fiction to sell products that creates a fear in the likes of minimum wage dealers that don't know any better. That in turn brings an injustice to Frank Scoblete's customers by bringing on unwarranted heat to not only his customers, but every dice player that studies the game and tries to throw with a little rhythm.

Quote: DeMango

The answer is pretty simple. Scoblette has made in your face, books, TV shows, and casino classes. He is simply an embellishing con artist. Those who do have a little skill and a lot of luck do not care for his bovine feces and outright ****. He does not fool us at all coming on this board and spreading his filth. And then some on this board suck up to him. Don't get me started!

For DeMango: I enjoy writing. I enjoy doing television shows. I enjoyed doing classes the past 10 years (anyone who took the class and wanted money back could get it). I don't see anything wrong in doing any of those things.

You enjoy writing and having people read what you write. Certainly that has to be true since you do post on message boards. You obviously think you have things to say that people want or need to read. Otherwise why do it? I am sure there are some people who look forward to reading what you have to say. Yes, I realize that you are using a pseudonym but many writers don't use their real names because they don't want their readers to actually know who they are.

I am not sure what "filth" or "bovine feces" or "outright ****" you refer to in your post. I do not understand the "in your face" reference since I have never gotten into anyone's face. That requires a lot of anger to do something such as that.

I do not know of anyone on this board who "suck(ed) up" to me --- certainly you, supperick and Bohemian haven't; others whom have disagreed with me have been cordial --- I don't see anything wrong in being such. Indeed if we use the "in your face" concept I think you come closer to that phrase than I do judging by your last post. I also wonder if you are getting information about me from the same flawed sources that give supperrick his misinformation. Supperrick hasn't been right about one thing (as far as I can remember). Just his last post about me had me playing craps at Bellagio the day before I was banned when I didn't play craps at all during that particular trip (I did write an article about this). Where does he get this stuff from? Someone saw me at a table I was never at. Weird. I'd love to discover who his sources are or who your sources are as that would give me an idea of who would invent such things. I would also love to know why some people believe these sources even when it is obvious they are wrong time and time again.

Bohemian: I do not think I have hurt craps players. When I first wrote about the Captain no one was doing dice control or dice influence (that coupling is for you Alan) in the casinos. No one knew about the 5-Count. Few knew about "pushing the house" or how far one could go "pushing the house." Or the Oddsman's bet. I know that if the casino thinks you have an edge, whether the shooter actually has an edge being irrelevant, heat will come down. I tend to agree with Mr. V about those who take too long to set the dice and those who fail to hit the back wall. I think the casinos tend to be paranoid about such things.

Superrick, why do you believe such poor sources? Then continue to use those sources when each and every time (so far as I can remember) they have been wrong?

Quote: Keyser

Superrick,
Are you a DI or DC? If so, then why should we believe you but not Frank S.?

Other guys that everybody calls DI's,..call me a DI! That being said I tell everybody that nobody can do what these fiction writers, write about! DI's don't win every time they hit the casinos, they have more PSO's then the so-called random rollers, if things are going badly for them.

I know some of the best shooters that I would call DI's. The same thing goes for those guys they can't win every time they hit the casinos.

I don't write that I rolled 58,..6's in a 70 roll or I took a cool haft million off the table with a $2000 buy-in. I don't have somebody that works for me saying that I had a 80 roll after everybody that was in for a class left and nobody was there to witness the roll. Now I did exaggerate a little to make a point about the 58,..6's so it may sink in to some of you guys just love to read fiction.

The only reason there is heat in casinos now days is because of all the fiction that is written about the DI's. It's so bad that one of these great fiction writers can write a 6 part trip report taking a helicopter-junket with his high rolling buddies to play craps for a day trip to a up state NY casino. Now if this great fiction writer that nobody has ever met is such a high roller winning hundreds of thousands of dollars a year off the casinos playing craps, please tell me why when he is writing his fantasy junket trip he needs his buddies to get him in on his junket trip?
Honestly guys do you really believe someone that is writing this:

Quote:

Dear Karl:
Last month in Atlantic City I rolled 11 eights in 12 rolls and then went on to roll 26 eights out of 45 numbers for that particular turn with the dice. I have seen rolls even better. My dice-control partner, Jerry “Stickman” clobbered the Grand (now Harrah’s) in Tunica with 23 sixes out of 28 numbers! I think that was a roll of a lifetime.
Frank Scoblete

Well you probability do because the stupid casinos do, and that is why we all get heat when we are shooting. When these writers make outlandish claims to fame all it does is hurt everybody that plays craps! Anybody can get on a great roll and the shooters that these writers call random rollers do it everyday all over this country, the only difference is they don't keep track of their rolls or make a big deal out of them.

Now I will give credit where credit is do, I have some of Franks books and I think he is a good writer. My problem starts when he writes something like above, where there was no witness except his shooting partner that worked for him. His job is to sell books, he needs good stories to sell them and what was his classes, when he was with GTC.

I think he did such a great job of writing and promoting becoming a DI that all the casinos and their pin head corporate pencil pushers believe that the so-called DI's are going to take them for millions every time somebody steps up to the table and is setting the dice. That just doesn't happen in real life, if it did Frank S wouldn't be wasting his time writing books, there would be no need to sell schools or books, he would be making all his money from the casinos. The same thing goes for the guys that work for him! He never would have said a thing to anybody about what he claims he can do with the dice in his hands.

If he didn't have the money to fund his great shooting there would be plenty of backers just wanting to get on the gravy train. He would be flying all over the world shooting craps, instead of writing for living, in his retirement!

Quote:

I know how superrick feels... If you are shooting well everytime you hit these spots... You will catch a lot if heat. And the heat comes specifically because of the "DI" phenomenon.. I can't tell you how many times I hear these words when I get the dice... "hey that's the guy who had the big rolls these past few weeks. He shoots like those DI videos". Minimums get raised, extra suits touch the floor all because some guy wrote some stuff a few years ago..
The Wolf713

The Wolf713 hit it right on the head, I think we all should be tired of getting heat every time we go into the casinos because of all the BS that is written about the so-called DI's. There is nothing like going to a table and having five suits looking at what you are doing and having them tell you to hit the back wall even when you are hitting it, or getting banned from a casino because you have gotten on to many good rolls. These suits that banned you never looked at you when you were losing, the only time they look at you is when you are winning, just because you are setting the dice.

I was setting the dice before I found out that they had these shooters that they are now calling DI's, back then everybody was just a random roller, you never got heat. Then they coined those famous words DI's or DC's, call them anything you want to! All of a sudden, I was getting stupid question from the dealers and they were saying look he's one of those DI's where did you take your class at! Hell I didn't even know that anybody was giving classes on shooting craps.

We now play on tables where nobody can keep the dice on the tables, the suits and boxmen spend their time chasing the dice, some of the guys that they call DI's use these table to their advantage, in a way it's way to funny, if you need to slow down the game you just bounce the dice off the table. The casinos can't figure out why their table hold goes down , it's not from the great shooting you are seeing on these tables, it's from the fact that their rolls per hour went to nothing,.. even when they have a full table.

Then you have the guys that just get pissed off standing at a table while a suit tries to find the damn dice that went off the table, and will color up because the game never has any flow to it, they came to play craps, they didn't come to stand at the table waiting for the dice to come back to the table.

All this BS came about after all the fiction about the DI's hit the books and forums. It's funny the guys that are not so-called DI's don't go to these forums, oh sure there are a few, but their voices are never heard from. When someone writes that they had a roll that if you looked at the odds of doing what they wrote should make anybody say BS, they just keep their fingers off the keyboards.

It should be quite obvious that if there is some fantastic roll, everybody would hear about it. Just like the 154 roll that we all know happened, and let me remind all of you so-called DI's that was done by a little old grandma that didn't play craps, she just got lucky and was what you all call a random roller! I've seen plenty of 50, 60, 70, rolls and yes even 80 and 90 rolls done by the so called random rollers.

To be continued

The ability of one to "believe" in the efficacy of dice setting, aka DI, requires a leap of faith.

This must be so as there is no clear, objective "proof" that dice setting actually works.

I certainly WANT to believe, just as I want to believe the notions of god and heaven, but my "rational mind" will not allow me to do so due to the absence of proof.

I certainly WANT to learn "the inside story of how dice controllers are winning millions from the casinos:" who wouldn't?

I'd also like to achieve immortality, and sit at the right hand of "god," at least if it gives me a chance to prolong my conscious existence.

Alas, neither proposition survives even moderate scrutiny, let alone strict scrutiny.

Divorced of superstition, hope and faith, one's belief system narrows considerably.

Nothing wrong with that.

Quote: superrick

When anybody makes an outrageous claim like you did with the 23 ,..6's in a 28 roll, other players should be able to see what kind of a real shooter the guy you claimed had that roll is.

I don't know about Frank's rolls in AC, but I was at Grand casino in Tunica and at the table when Stickman had his series of 6's. I don't know for sure how many 6's were thrown and how many total rolls there were, but practically every roll was a six. I made a killing as I was come betting. Nearly every roll was an "off and on." After collecting on 3 successive off and on's I went to max odds (20X) in stages and then started bumping the base bet and backing it with full odds. I started at $5 base and $25 odds and when Stickman sevened out I was up to a $40 base with $800 odds - and this was with bumping the base bet $5 every other hit. There were a LOT OF 6's! Very close to 20 if not over. I believe the numbers Frank posted.

Quote: Keyser

Superrick,

Why do you argue that DC and DI doesn't exist, but continue making statements like the one above. Also, because you attack Frank so often, It looks like you're jealous that most people look towards Frank Scoblete as being the dice expert, rather than you.

Are you jealous of Frank?

Keyser there is no need for me to be jealous of Frank or anybody else on this board. I don't write books, I don't have a school and the only teaching that I do is when someone comes to me and ask if I can help them out with their shooting, and that's only if someone I know knows them. I don't charge them for what I do. Most of the time I can fix what they are doing wrong in a few minutes time.
I just about put a stop to that after helping some guy out and asking him not to tell anybody what showed him. Next thing I know he's writing about what I let him know on the different DI boards. So his name is now mud to the real DI's out there!
You asked why do you argue that DC and DI doesn't exist, I never said there was no such thing as anybody that you want to call a DI, what I do say is these guys can't do what they are claiming in their outrageous claim!

The casinos don't have anything to worry about, most of what they read is nothing more then BS. The so-called DI's are just getting lucky when they get on a roll just like everybody else. The so-called random rollers get on more rolls then the DI's they have to they out number the DI's tens of thousands to one!

I make my money off the tables, not selling BS, nor writing BS. I'm not some egotistical maniac that writes nothing but fiction or a pathological liar that writes about taking a three day comp trip to Macau China to play craps or a helicopter junket to a up state NY casino to play craps with the high rolling buddies that was needed to get him on that fantasy trip! I live in Vegas and have met plenty of players from the different DI boards and even a few from here, only because I thought they wrote some really good stuff about craps!

Just think about that three day comp trip to Macau, hell there are 36 hours of flying time to get there and back, would a casino pay for a trip like that for some stinking green chip player who's buy-in's are only $2000?

I've seen people that I know lose everything they have worked for all their lives to the casinos living here in Vegas. I see the guys that believe the BS that is written lose their money when in Vegas by making stupid bets that these fiction writer push, like the $204 across.
Please notice that Frank S does not push that bet, and I'm not writing about him when writing about these fantasy trips. I have some of his books and I don't write that you shouldn't go out and buy them. I also don't write that you shouldn't go out and take one of these classes that a few of the schools sell. I think that a new player can learn a lot about the game if the class is teaching good betting skills to go along with what they are teaching about shooting.

Do the guys that take these classes win hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, like our great fiction writers claims to make playing craps,.. hell no! Most will fail because they don't play the game enough or practice all the time. Did they waste their money taking a class, I don't think so, if they have a better understanding of the game! Now of course that's if they don't believe the BS that is written about winning all that money and they lose all of theirs trying to become a so-called DI.

But if you don't think that these outrageous claims that are made like this one, doesn't hurt everybody I feel for each and everyone of you, that is living in a fantasy world of playing craps!

Quote:

Dear Karl:
Last month in Atlantic City I rolled 11 eights in 12 rolls and then went on to roll 26 eights out of 45 numbers for that particular turn with the dice. I have seen rolls even better. My dice-control partner, Jerry “Stickman” clobbered the Grand (now Harrah’s) in Tunica with 23 sixes out of 28 numbers! I think that was a roll of a lifetime.
Frank Scoblete

Quote:

Frank its OK

Superick got a call about me being in Laughflin and throwing.........laughing..... now that is funny
there is not a person in the world of craps, or probably any other kind of world that cares if i am in
Laughflin or anywhere else for that matter.

Dicesitter

No its not okay Dicesitter for anybody to believe Franks quote above.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/13499-is-dice-control-real-can-it-be-tested/33/#post239016


Dicesitter didn't you write the below quote when they were challenging you on the [is dice conttrol-real-can-it-be-tested] thread

Quote: SOOPOO

My money is available for the taking. I'll be that dicesitter cannot roll more than 60 "6's and 8's" in one hundred rolls. Expected is 55.5. So around a third of random rollers can do it. I'm betting dicesitter can't. 61 you win. 60 or fewer you lose. I'll bet Aaron will allow his dice palace to be used......
Nickolay and tupp stepped up to the plate with money on the line, will you?

So if you believed what you wrote in the below quote, how comes you are now defending the outrageous claim that Frank S made?

Quote: dicesitter

Out of 100 rolls you would expect what you said,, about 27.5% of a combination of 6 & 8.
or 27.5 of them.... my records are pretty decent, if i can get 30-35% 6 & 8's in combination i can
win, because i have over-come the house advantage. trying to get 55 or 60 of them in every hundred
rolls is a pipe dream.

dicesitter you called it a pipe dream didn't you? You do the math just add those 26 eights for ever 45 rolls together and you get 52 eights in 90 rolls of the dice, does that sound like anybody could do that?
In the above quote you were taking about 6's and 8's Frank was only talking about 8's!

Now, I have to admit that I'm not a math guy, but thanks to guys like cowboy I don't have to do the math. I can't thank him enough for doing the math and helping me out trying to show how ridiculous some of these claims to fame are!

When I asked the question about what the odds of someone rolling 26 eights out of 45 rolls cowboy came back with the answer of 137,221,000,000 to 1. About 137 billion to one. I know Frank I should Email your shooting partner and ask him about that roll, do you really want me to waste my time doing that? I think the odds speak for themselves.

Also when I wrote about you in Laughlin, I didn't laugh at you, I was making a point that you never know who is standing next to you at the craps table. I get phone calls from the guys I know all the time about who they ran into on the tables. We all live in a fish bowl now days, you never know who is taking a photo or a video of you. Some of the guys will snap a photo and ask if I know the guy shooting and are they worth betting on, if the guy is setting the dice and seems to know what they are doing!
From what I was told you were a pretty good shooter!

To be continued

Quote: diceroller

I don't know about Frank's rolls in AC, but I was at Grand casino in Tunica and at the table when Stickman had his series of 6's. I don't know for sure how many 6's were thrown and how many total rolls there were, but practically every roll was a six. I made a killing as I was come betting. Nearly every roll was an "off and on." After collecting on 3 successive off and on's I went to max odds (20X) in stages and then started bumping the base bet and backing it with full odds. I started at $5 base and $25 odds and when Stickman sevened out I was up to a $40 base with $800 odds - and this was with bumping the base bet $5 every other hit. There were a LOT OF 6's! Very close to 20 if not over. I believe the numbers Frank posted.

Nice try,..is all I can say you came on this board and made your first post after you joined today just so you could defend Frank and the other great fiction writer that nobody has ever seen in a casino that writes nothing but BS about playing craps. At lease Frank does play the game and most DI's have seen him shooting in the casinos. There are also a few of the guys that took his class that I would go to the table with any time, but again they don't have rolls like we are writing about.

diceroller
Member since: Jun 13, 2013
Threads: 0
Posts: 1

Funny that you found your way on the board, to write your first post about Frank today! Was it that damn little bird that told you to make your post today. Its amazing how that damn bird get around when someone is picking on Frank S!

Do I have to say BS, or should I just ask how do you become a sock puppet, just curious?

Whenever we talk about "results" or what happened with a shooter, we have to separate "history" from the "ability to do it again."

As recently as March I was at a table where a RANDOM shooter threw an "8" no less than six times in a row. There was also a shooter at the next table who threw numerous 8s in a hand that lasted more than an hour -- but again a random shooter. And don't forget my (now infamous) report about a RANDOM shooter who threw a YO 18 times in a row.

These things can happen. The history of craps can be filled with reports and events such as these. Some of the them are well documented -- but some are not.

BUT THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE THAT WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED WITH.

What we should be concerned with are claims that these fantastic events can be repeated by design.

I can absolutely accept that someone rolled 23 6s out of 28 throws of the dice... or any variation thereof. Stuff happens. Crazy things happen. What we might call "miracles" happen. But what I cannot accept is that these things happened by design or that they can be repeated again by design.

This doesn't mean that one should not try "dice influencing" or "dice control" but it does mean that we should all be aware that so far... repeat: SO FAR... no one has ever demonstrated any particular feat BY DESIGN.

To the best of my knowledge there is not one self proclaimed DI or DC who can say "I am going to throw a hard 6 right now" and does it -- and that DI or DC can do that again on demand much like a major league baseball pitcher can throw a fast ball into the strike zone over and over again on demand.

And if there is a DI or DC who can demonstrate to me that they can throw any dice combination on demand (and repeat that) I'll put them on my TV show.

Alan, nice try and almost on the money. I'll post a new thread sometime later because I have to go swimming now.

Superrick, you are a suspicious sort. I'd still like to know how you learn about all this stuff and why your information is almost always wrong? If you give me your sources in an email I promise not to reveal them --- just as I haven't revealed the Captain's name. You know I have kept that promise even though suspicious sorts think it is all nonsense. As to the poor soul who signed up and defended me, "Thanks, but you merely stepped into a whirlpool. Your intentions were good but the whirlpool will swirl no matter who you are or what you say. But I do appreciate it."

I think a new thread about dice control in a serious manner and not one where flaming rockets are launched would be great. I am going to give that a try sometime today or soon. Depends on what comes up when I get back from swimming.

Quote: FrankScoblete

I think a new thread about dice control in a serious manner and not one where flaming rockets are launched would be great. I am going to give that a try sometime today or soon.

Check with the moderators first, Frank. I think the verdict was no additional threads on the subject.

I'm good with a fresh start on this topic but suggest the mods lock the other threads and let's just duke it out here ;-)

Quote: Frank S

Superrick, why do you believe such poor sources? Then continue to use those sources when each and every time (so far as I can remember) they have been wrong?

Frank my sources are very reliable and I have known them for years. I've heard the same stories from more then one source, that just happened to come up in a conversation. I didn't ask the question that led to being told a story, that match exactly with the other ones that I was told! Now I've been around a few years, I was setting the dice before the DI phenomenon started and they coined those now famous words “Dice Influencer” or “Dice Controller”, that changed the way the game of craps was played.

Quote: Frank S

Bohemian: I do not think I have hurt craps players. When I first wrote about the Captain no one was doing dice control or dice influence (that coupling is for you Alan) in the casinos. No one knew about the 5-Count. Few knew about "pushing the house" or how far one could go "pushing the house." Or the Oddsman's bet. I know that if the casino thinks you have an edge, whether the shooter actually has an edge being irrelevant, heat will come down. I tend to agree with Mr. V about those who take too long to set the dice and those who fail to hit the back wall. I think the casinos tend to be paranoid about such things.

Frank there was no heat before guys like you came along writing about becoming a DI and selling classes, everybody was just a random roller you didn't get any heat when you were shooting, the casinos realized that one die might not make it to the back wall when it took off like it was possessed by an evil demon and wanted to head right back to you instead of hitting that back wall. That damn die would reverse direction all by it's self, so one die hit the back wall and the other one didn’t!

Nothing was ever said about what just happened, everybody knew things like that happen all the time when you are shooting dice. Then all of a sudden casinos started telling anybody that was setting the dice that if they didn't hit the back wall with both dice they were going to take the dice off them and pass them to the next shooter. That's when I found out there were guys like you, writing about becoming one of these DI, you were selling classes and doing TV shows, anything you could do to promote selling your product, that just happened to be yourself.

We had others jumping on your bandwagon, that started writing nothing but fiction to feed their egotistical maniac personalities. They were writing about taking hundreds of thousands of dollars off the casinos every years with their SRR's of now get this, just in case you didn't know about the one great fiction writer that was claiming a SRR of 28, you are now informed of this outrageous claim!

There were so many outrageous claims made by this one great fiction writer, that you could only call him a pathological liar, one of the best ones that he came up with was his three day comp trip to Macau China
for a chunky green chip player, with his $2000 buy-in's that he still writes about! All I can say is BS, I know high rollers that thought that great masterpiece of fiction was hilarious. Now, I do have to hand it to you. unlike this great fiction writer, you do not hide behind a curtain and others have actually seen you playing in the casinos. Where as nobody has ever met him or seen him playing in a real casino!

So Frank there are a lot of writers that make outrageous claims to fame about the game of craps and being a DI. When anybody has this type of behavior and writes about fantastic things that nobody saw happen they hurt everybody that plays craps, because the casinos and their pin head management can afford to buy the books and join these forums, even if they charge membership.

Quote: Frank S

Superrick, you are a suspicious sort. I'd still like to know how you learn about all this stuff and why your information is almost always wrong? If you give me your sources in an email I promise not to reveal them --- just as I haven't revealed the Captain's name. You know I have kept that promise even though suspicious sorts think it is all nonsense. As to the poor soul who signed up and defended me, "Thanks, but you merely stepped into a whirlpool. Your intentions were good but the whirlpool will swirl no matter who you are or what you say. But I do appreciate it."

Frank unlike all your other readers that never saw you in a casino, I get to play craps with DI's that come into Vegas all the time, and I know for a fact that they can't win every time they hit the tables.
We take notice to the guys that are setting the dice, we do not write about the guys that picked up the dice for the first time in their life and made every DI on the table look sick with there roll in the 50's or more.

When you are selling anything you need hype to do it, especially if it can't be proving that what you sell does work. In the case of the casinos, the guys that are selling becoming a DI did such a good job of selling the hype that everybody that sets the dice will now get hassled if they get on a roll.

The easy way to really sell your product would be for you to take Ahigh up on doing a video with two or three cameras showing your great shooting skills. That way everybody would be able to see the dice landing hitting the back wall and now get this showing what the numbers came up every time on the dice! You could get “Jerry the Stickman the Dom and yourself to put on a real show and shut guys like me up!

No,.. I won't be sending you all my sources in an email there is no need to do that. What keeps the DI phenomenon from becoming reality is the guys that write BS and will not step up to the plate to back up what they are writing! Gee if you can't do it in front of a camera with nobody throwing in late bets or all the other BS that happens on a real table and no chip on the table or the jerk stickman that is trying to get you to seven out by pushing the stick in front of you, how can you do it in a casino?

Yes,.. Frank I know that you do get on some good rolls, we all do and you and all the other DI's will never have bragging rights until you beat that 154 roll, that the little old grandma had, that just happened to be a so-called random roller, that everybody that sells becoming a DI says you should never bet on!

I could never land all the blame of you Frank for all the heat everybody now gets, because of the egotistical maniac fiction writers we have on these forums. If you didn't think that by going on TV shows and and making shows like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIhEthgNMqk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhno_F9vZcw

Would do anything to how the casinos react to anybody setting the dice, I just don't know what to tell you.
By the way Frank you shouldn't get upset with me after all in a way I'm showing all your hype!