onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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February 28th, 2013 at 8:11:52 PM permalink
Quote: TheWolf713

It will be the funniest clip of someone getting escorted out I've ever seen... Caliper in hand saying "I want to check your dice to see if it's fair!!!"

and then all the other players are going to look at the guy leave, and turn right back around and say "let me get a hard 8!!!!"


I'm not so sure. In this scenario, you would have the dice in your hands already. If they deny, they are being defensive which proves as much they might be hiding something. Nevada is supposed to be big about credibility, public trust of the fairness of the games and would have to act. The person willing to push the issue would also have to be someone willing to never set foot in a casino again, since I would bet they would get a letter in the mail 86ing them from the premises, if not the same day. It should be a right to demand something so simple, but apparently it is not. Ohio has some kind of clause where the state can ban anyone deemed harmful to the revenues of the state(seems a bit vague) and I wonder if NV has one too.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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February 28th, 2013 at 9:11:52 PM permalink
Why not go to one of these places where you know the location and time they use "unbalanced" dice and play in a manner to take advantage of it? Or as soon as they switch to the "unbalanced" dice, change the numbers you are playing?

Your chat with the NGB shows nothing except some cooks complaining the dice are unbalanced. If you were to go to the people that handle food licenses and told them a restaurant was using gerbil meat in their $1 tacos, I doubt they would immediately send someone out to test the meat. It's an absurd accusation. But then you'd complain the fox is guarding the hen house again.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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March 1st, 2013 at 8:06:34 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Why not go to one of these places where you know the location and time they use "unbalanced" dice and play in a manner to take advantage of it? Or as soon as they switch to the "unbalanced" dice, change the numbers you are playing?

Your chat with the NGB shows nothing except some cooks complaining the dice are unbalanced. If you were to go to the people that handle food licenses and told them a restaurant was using gerbil meat in their $1 tacos, I doubt they would immediately send someone out to test the meat. It's an absurd accusation. But then you'd complain the fox is guarding the hen house again.

ZCore13



Your question makes the assumption that Harley is not already doing this.

I'm really not even 100% sure that Harley is excited about this becoming an issue that more people are aware of if he is very successfully exploiting it.

For the record, I have no idea what Harley's betting strategies are like with regards to possibly exploiting biased dice. But if it were me, and I were doing it for big money, I would find a face that was consistently light for a few hours and I would lay a number that needed that face. Like if it was light on the 3 face and heavy on the 6-1, I might lay the 6, 5, or the 4.

4:7 ratio is 0.457 - 0.500 = -0.043 or -8.58%
5:7 ratio is 0.626 - 0.667 = -0.040 or -6.06%
6:7 ratio is 0.778 - 0.833 = -0.056 or -6.69%
8:7 ratio is 0.817 - 0.833 = -0.017 or -2.01%
9:7 ratio is 0.642 - 0.667 = -0.025 or -3.73%
10:7 ratio is 0.526 - 0.500 = +0.026 or +5.11%


For a grind like this to work, you either need to have $0.25 chips, or you need bets that pay off in even increments of $20 to minimize the house edge. These are not ridiculously high ratios from face-weight biases. This data is from 100,000 samples generated from the observed face weights on the other thread about biased dice. IE: Using faceweights ( 130 125 108 125 119 142 ) , ( 130 125 108 125 119 142 )
TIMSPEED
TIMSPEED
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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March 1st, 2013 at 8:25:03 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

:-)


Hey Aaron, I have a couple of those too...where did you get yours? I got lucky and found that OfficeDepot sells them for $3 each (while other places want $16)
Tally Counter
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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March 1st, 2013 at 9:01:12 AM permalink
I started with the six bank from here:

http://www.tallycounterstore.com/Bank_Tally_Counter_p/014.htm

Then I took off the base and used my axis grinder and some aluminum and a drill to create a new straight strip of aluminum for a base so that the counters would still be connected together but fit into the rail really nice.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 1st, 2013 at 12:13:53 PM permalink
If Harley was already taking advantage of it he wouldn't be complaining to the NGB. Somehow he can't win with knowing that the dice are rigged to hit specific numbers. If I had that information I'd make a killing and not be complaining.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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March 1st, 2013 at 12:45:32 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

If Harley was already taking advantage of it he wouldn't be complaining to the NGB. Somehow he can't win with knowing that the dice are rigged to hit specific numbers. If I had that information I'd make a killing and not be complaining.

ZCore13


I don't think it would be quite so easy, especially not knowing which dice are being used beforehand. If dice were rigged to land on a certain number a very small amount(assuming it is possible), you're going to have problems exploiting it. Seems a bit too difficult for me to figure out, but I think it could be an advantage for the casino if betting patterns didn't change. People may bet the pass line, but how often do they double up betting the place bets on the same number as the point? I am by no means a craps expert, but I can see how there could be an advantage to the house even if neither the house or the players knew how the dice were biased. Think how to do it if you were diabolical.

I still don't understand how the dice were determined to be biased myself based on the accusation blog. As an aside, if the dice are not balanced tested in public, I wonder if they are never tested or only tested once somewhere along the chain.
TIMSPEED
TIMSPEED
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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March 1st, 2013 at 1:06:35 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

If Harley was already taking advantage of it he wouldn't be complaining to the NGB. Somehow he can't win with knowing that the dice are rigged to hit specific numbers. If I had that information I'd make a killing and not be complaining.

ZCore13


If you start CONSISTENTLY killing a crap table(s) you're going to get asked to leave in short order (similar to backing off a card-counter)
I would imagine there are so few houses that have greatly-biased dice that it makes it hard to really spread your play around...on a similar note, these same houses are probably real low-roller/sweat joints...so even if you started to win more than like $100, they'd be on you like stank on poop.
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 1st, 2013 at 1:15:46 PM permalink
The thing is, I don't know if I've ever seen dice changed after the come out roll that results in a point and before the next roll. So the unbalanced dice "create" a number that is unbalanced, say 9 for example. Now everyone plays their odds at 2 or 3 or 4 times their pass line. Then the shooter rolls the dice and the dice are unballanced to hit a 9 more often then any other number and it hits and everyone wins. So the house gets pissed and changes the dice to the unbalanced ones that hit 10's more than normal. The point is established, more likely a 10 than anything. Everyone places their odds at 2-1 and the shooter has a higher chance at hitting a 10 than anything and wins.

Unless they are changing the dice right after the come out roll it doesn't make any sense. If they are doing that then that is VERY easy to prove and have someone from the NGB watch. The whole story sounds fishy.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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March 1st, 2013 at 1:19:47 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

If Harley was already taking advantage of it he wouldn't be complaining to the NGB.



If this statement were correct, you would have a point. However, you have no evidence for the above statement as it's an assertion dependent on an assumption that you have made about Harley not being someone who has a good moral character.

Harley is one of the most pleasant guys I have ever had an opportunity to meet. And he is extremely modest.

I used to think a lot of bad stuff about Harley until I met him, honestly. So I can imagine how you might also feel this way.

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