Face
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Face
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March 17th, 2013 at 5:54:00 PM permalink
Quote: Harley

AHigh's caliper showed that the dice presented to the Nevada Gaming Commission were out of balance. 2 out of 3 dice balancers showed the dice were out of balance .... only the Nevada Gaming Commission caliper showed the dice were balanced

Now do you understand how the Fox is guarding the Hen house ... and shunning its fiduciary duty



Ive a question (and despite my skepticism, its honest)

I must believe that every single die ever produced must be biased. After all, were not talking aerospace here; were just mass producing plastic cubes.

How much bias is needed to see a biased result in, say, a 100 roll session? Is there a certain percentage of mass or measurable weight to say yes, this one will work?
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TheWolf713
TheWolf713
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March 17th, 2013 at 7:02:19 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

Quote:



Face

In all the conferences Ive been to, all the biggest Surv guys Ive spoken to; Zender, Allison, Hoke, Martin, and a ton of Directors from around the US and world, never in the history of ever has DI been so much as mentioned. Not because its unknown, but because there has not yet been a documented case of threat, and the evidence of the studies out there likewise raise no concern.





Here is a link that you should see about the Dice Setters, because you are saying the casinos don't care about the dice setters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me5vgKkFUXA

So I have one question for you , if they don't care about it, then why is Bill Zender even talking about it. Trying to get the casinos to stop hassling the guys that are setting the dice.

The casinos are still running off players, that set the dice when they are just getting lucky and are on a lucky roll! Could it be that they have read all the fiction that is written about the DI's that they too believe that a DI is going to take all their chips off the tables?

Also please tell me why some DI's have been banned from playing craps, was it just because they were getting lucky, and all casinos sweat the money, that have banned any DI?

From your view point nobody should ever have to put up with the casinos foolishness when they start telling a shooter to hit the back wall only because they missed it once in 25 rolls of the dice!



Good YouTube post


But what I got out of that segment is that he was reassuring them that they don't have anything to worry about...

All the dogma, throwing techniques and general landing of the dice are already known.. He merely showing that the only person the DI is fooling are themselves...
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
Zcore13
Zcore13
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March 17th, 2013 at 7:46:03 PM permalink
Agreed.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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March 18th, 2013 at 12:54:41 AM permalink
A couple of comments:

1. Dice influencing, and any attempt by the shooter to make the dice go "his way" (with the exception of sliding) is an expected part of the game. That from the enforcement division of the Nevada Gaming Commission.

2. If casinos don't want to do business with dice influencers, they don't have to. They can choose who to do business with.

3. Dice influencing is not illegal. Card Counting in blackjack is not illegal, yet casinos have the right and exercise the right not to do business with card counters.

And about this dice balancing machine that the Nevada gaming officials use: what do you mean by it didn't work? Do you mean it didn't show any bias or it failed to spin?

I still have never experienced, seen or suspected any dice that appeared to be biased, off balanced, or tampered with at any casino I've ever played at. I've only seen dice "changed out" during routine intervals, and NEVER during a player's hot hand and ALWAYS between the change of shooters.
FleaStiff
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March 18th, 2013 at 4:08:52 AM permalink
WHY would the Gaming Commission care anything at all about the dice other than verifying that there are five of them and that they bear the serial numbers they are supposed to bear. Take a pair of calipers to a die? Heck, they don't even take a pair of calipers to the tits of the women surrounding the table and everyone knows those have a greater effect on the game than the dice do. Its a total non issue with the Gaming Board.
FleaStiff
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March 18th, 2013 at 4:13:39 AM permalink
Quote: TheWolf713

He merely showing that the only person the DI is fooling are themselves...

And not even that because some of these Dice Influencing types are standing there with a minimum bet on the line and not even an odds bet much less any other bet. Gadzooks you would think if those darned DIs really believed in their own nonsense they would at least be putting some real money on the line, but they are not.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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March 18th, 2013 at 8:55:41 AM permalink
Quote: Face

Ive a question (and despite my skepticism, its honest)

I must believe that every single die ever produced must be biased. After all, were not talking aerospace here; were just mass producing plastic cubes.

How much bias is needed to see a biased result in, say, a 100 roll session? Is there a certain percentage of mass or measurable weight to say yes, this one will work?


Nobody has ever demonstrated that a slightly unbalanced die (not a load, just a standard die with a center of mass slightly off-center) has a noticeable impact, or even any impact at all, on the face distributions over the useful life of that die. Even if there were a known causality between a die having imbalance B and biased (non-uniform) face distribution D, nobody has demonstrated that all dice have imbalance B. As I previously noted, unless the imbalance in all dice is the same, the aggregate face distribution results will average out and tend toward uniform at one in six for each face. The only large scale data we have, casino revenue statistics, shows consistent revenue results over a multi-year period. Therefore, we can reject the theories that (a) unintentionally unbalanced dice in casinos has any impact on the overall game, and (b) casinos are systematically increasing their craps win by fraudulently using intentionally unbalanced dice.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
FleaStiff
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March 18th, 2013 at 9:22:22 AM permalink
Quote: Face

Ive a question (and despite my skepticism, its honest)
I must believe that every single die ever produced must be biased. After all, were not talking aerospace here; were just mass producing plastic cubes.
How much bias is needed to see a biased result in, say, a 100 roll session? Is there a certain percentage of mass or measurable weight to say yes, this one will work?


Persi Diaconis, a Stanford Professor of Mathematics and former magician, once commissioned a precisely milled set of off-dice. His graduate students made more errors recording the bias dice than the dice displayed in deviating from what was expected.

So the "toy dice" that you get in some kids craps game are not really all that much "off".
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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March 18th, 2013 at 7:17:51 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Nobody has ever demonstrated that a slightly unbalanced die (not a load, just a standard die with a center of mass slightly off-center) has a noticeable impact, or even any impact at all, on the face distributions over the useful life of that die. Even if there were a known causality between a die having imbalance B and biased (non-uniform) face distribution D, nobody has demonstrated that all dice have imbalance B. As I previously noted, unless the imbalance in all dice is the same, the aggregate face distribution results will average out and tend toward uniform at one in six for each face. The only large scale data we have, casino revenue statistics, shows consistent revenue results over a multi-year period. Therefore, we can reject the theories that (a) unintentionally unbalanced dice in casinos has any impact on the overall game, and (b) casinos are systematically increasing their craps win by fraudulently using intentionally unbalanced dice.



Well said.
Buzzard
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March 18th, 2013 at 7:52:12 PM permalink
" Therefore, we can reject the theories that (a) unintentionally unbalanced dice in casinos has any impact on the overall game, and (b) casinos are systematically increasing their craps win by fraudulently using intentionally unbalanced dice. "

I know you mean well, but please refrain from entering logic is an otherwise stimulation discussion. I and The Masked Man thank you for your consideration !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet

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