Harley
Harley
Joined: May 13, 2012
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March 17th, 2013 at 3:27:32 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

I and quite a few other folks would just love to know when you'll be playing -- and presumably losing -- at Caesars.
Please do us the favor of posting the next losing appearance.


LoL .... as if

..... yea right .... in your dreams
.... that is simply my opinion .... Ciao, Harley ... Link = http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
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March 17th, 2013 at 4:11:30 PM permalink
Quote:



Face

In all the conferences Iíve been to, all the biggest Surv guys Iíve spoken to; Zender, Allison, Hoke, Martin, and a ton of Directors from around the US and world, never in the history of ever has DI been so much as mentioned. Not because itís unknown, but because there has not yet been a documented case of threat, and the evidence of the studies out there likewise raise no concern.





Here is a link that you should see about the Dice Setters, because you are saying the casinos don't care about the dice setters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me5vgKkFUXA

So I have one question for you , if they don't care about it, then why is Bill Zender even talking about it. Trying to get the casinos to stop hassling the guys that are setting the dice.

The casinos are still running off players, that set the dice when they are just getting lucky and are on a lucky roll! Could it be that they have read all the fiction that is written about the DI's that they too believe that a DI is going to take all their chips off the tables?

Also please tell me why some DI's have been banned from playing craps, was it just because they were getting lucky, and all casinos sweat the money, that have banned any DI?

From your view point nobody should ever have to put up with the casinos foolishness when they start telling a shooter to hit the back wall only because they missed it once in 25 rolls of the dice!
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
Face
Administrator
Face
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
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March 17th, 2013 at 4:40:47 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

Actually, every casino that has a crapshooter table or tub (or table with a bump) takes extra countermeasures against DIs, due to the short distances. Casinos believe that dice influencing is a matter of degree, relative to the shooting distance.

If it is a matter of degree, then dice influencing can't be absolutely impossible.

Furthermore, there are several documented cases of dice influencing, even some cases with a lot of money "on the line."



For the record, I donít think DI is impossible.

Iím a shooter myself. Firearms, but I think the concept applies. Any repeatable action should give repeatable results, itís simple physics. In the case of a firearm, there are certain variables; the amount of powder in a case down to the molecule, the shape of the round to the molecular level, deformation of the rifling and barrel on a molecular level after each shot. The temperature, wind, humidity and density are ever changing. The tolerance in the weapon itself allows miniscule wiggle. And then thereís the human element of being able to keep it steady during the pulling of the trigger. However, most of these variables can be overcome, allowing someone to punch 5 rounds through paper at 100yds, all in a sub 2Ē group. This is a fact that is reproducible, and can be demonstrated. You can even ďmath outĒ how changes in some of the variables will affect things and the results will indeed follow the math.

If you could somehow eliminate all of the above variables, you should be able to punch 5 rounds through the same hole at 300yds. Physics says you must.

I find DI to be the exact same concept. The big question is ďhow many variables need be overcome?Ē Oil, spilled beer, etc covering the dice by contact are one. The deformation of the felt upon contact is another. The deformation of the pyramids, the deformation of the die themselves, the change in the properties of the air, itís a big list.

Knowing how these variables affect the die, as far as I know, isnít known yet. I havenít even read anything that supposes how much or how little it matters. We know it affects things, we know it must, but we have no idea to what degree.

We know humans can do surprising things with muscle memory, just look at professional sports and competitive games. But again, to what level such skill needs to be is not known. To make an analogy, do you need the accuracy to hit a bulls-eye, or just somewhere in a strike zone?

So we donít know to what degree the variables need be overcome, we know little about which variables are more important, we only sort of have an idea as to how accurate one must be, but there are those in both the Yay and Nay camps who already declare they are the ones who are right with not much scientific evidence to support it. And for those of us still with an open mind, we only have anecdotes, conjecture, and a test that was both short, as well as wishy-washy (I think Wong convinced himself to DI, then retracted that belief).

I think there are many of us here that donít have a stake way or the other, but weíre interested in the science. A lot of the arguing from the Nays seems to be the pointing out that X doesnít necessarily mean something, which I had hoped would result in the Yays to bring some solid evidence to the table. But ever since Ahigh started with his videos (which began the process of providing evidence), the idea has seemed to come off the rails, with people trying to instead argue their way into truth. ďArguing into truthĒ isnít possible when the evidence is there and is obtainable. Someone just has to get it.

If DIs just want to argue, thatís fine. There are plenty here that will be more than willing to engage. But if they want to be taken seriously, if they want to make a discovery, if they want to produce a treasure of knowledge, they need to produce facts and evidence. Without, every one of these craps threads are going to decay into little more than pissing contests, a place many already seem to be headed.

Tl;dr Ė Prove it.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
Face
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Face
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March 17th, 2013 at 4:50:00 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

So I have one question for you , if they don't care about it, then why is Bill Zender even talking about it. Trying to get the casinos to stop hassling the guys that are setting the dice.



Quote: Face

... Surv and casino personnel in general are no different than life Ė they contain their fair share of dummies.



That includes dummies who chase off a great number of paying patrons over a fear that they'll get "taken", all the while pissing money out the window with back-offs and bars.

Zender is trying to get casinos to stop stepping over dollars to pick up a dime. I'm in his camp.

And yes, I think it's stupid if a casino bans, bars, or bitches about back wall if you miss once in 25. You should vote with your feet.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
Headlock
Headlock
Joined: Feb 9, 2010
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March 17th, 2013 at 5:03:01 PM permalink
Does the Nevada Gaming Commission perform unannounced inspections of the dice in play?
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
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March 17th, 2013 at 5:10:27 PM permalink
Quote:


Headlock
Does the Nevada Gaming Commission perform unannounced inspections of the dice in play?



Iíve never seen them do that, nor have I every heard of them doing it. Weíve been told by gaming that they only have two balancers in the state on NV to balance the dice, one if for the north and one for the south of the state.
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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March 17th, 2013 at 5:36:22 PM permalink
Quote: Harley

LoL .... as if ..... yea right .... in your dreams


If you shy away from advising us of your next session at Caesars, how about relating to us what happened at the last visit?
Harley
Harley
Joined: May 13, 2012
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March 17th, 2013 at 5:36:51 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

Quote:


Headlock
Does the Nevada Gaming Commission perform unannounced inspections of the dice in play?



Iíve never seen them do that, nor have I every heard of them doing it. Weíve been told by gaming that they only have two balancers in the state on NV to balance the dice, one if for the north and one for the south of the state.



I concur with SuperRick ..... our Dice Research Team met with Nevada Gaming Commission and their official non-working dice balancing caliper that tried to measure several of our captured evidence of unbalanced dice from Nevada casinos ...... minutes from that meeting:

Quote: Biased Dice Research Team meeting with NSGCB/Enforcement Division


- NSGCB Agent Jim Edwards said he would be available to audit dice from any Nevada casino within 30 minutes of receiving a call if we suspected Biased dice. An auditor would arrive at the casino and give the Pit Supervisor a 5 minute warning that he would be confiscating the dice from the table, thus allowing the Casino a chance to get a new stick of dice so as not to interfere with operations;

- We presented our unbalanced dice evidence from 6 casinos -- showing how the standard dice balancing caliper clearly proved that live casino dice were unbalanced and being used to change the odds;

- Then the NSGCB Agent Jim Edwards explained how he would conduct the audit upon arriving at the casino -- he would first put the dice in a micrometer --- he demonstrated with our bad dice. He showed us how the dice were almost perfectly square -- again we had no argument with his findings. Then he pulled out his 50 year old all metal dice balancing caliper that weighed nearly 5 pounds and proceeded to spin the unbalanced dice --- the result was that the official NSGCB dice balancing equipment DID NOT WORK.



We then presented this same unbalanced dice evidence from the 6 casinos to AHigh to measure in his advanced superior dice balancing caliper. AHigh's caliper showed that the dice presented to the Nevada Gaming Commission were out of balance. 2 out of 3 dice balancers showed the dice were out of balance .... only the Nevada Gaming Commission caliper showed the dice were balanced

Now do you understand how the Fox is guarding the Hen house ... and shunning its fiduciary duty
.... that is simply my opinion .... Ciao, Harley ... Link = http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 17th, 2013 at 5:47:49 PM permalink
If Ahigh did not see the dice come off the table and have them in his possession or some other similar safeguards, the test is invalid. As far as anyon3 knows the dice could have been tampered with by a crazy masked man...

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
cclub79
cclub79
Joined: Dec 16, 2009
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March 17th, 2013 at 5:49:57 PM permalink
Quote: Harley


Now do you understand how the Fox is guarding the Hen house ... and shunning its fiduciary duty



This analogy seems wrong. For the fox to be guiding the henhouse, the NGC would have to be directly involved in shaving the dice, or packed with people from the casino corporations and overlooking it on purpose. This is more like "Nobody's guarding the henhouse." or "The henhouse's security system is broken." The NGC's inability to detect the unbalanced dice doesn't make them a willing participant in the alleged "cheating".

But just because the dice are unbalanced doesn't mean there has to be a giant corporate conspiracy to steal from players, in my opinion. You need more than that to convince me.

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