Beardgoat
Joined: Apr 2, 2012
• Posts: 874
March 15th, 2013 at 8:50:29 PM permalink
Quote: Harley

Sorry for the confusion, there are varying degrees of Dice in play --- we have found:

- Very Fair Dice (Colorado has the most fair dice the most often)
- almost fair dice (close enough to play your regular game as advertised by the Wizard)

- Stick is moderately biased - gives a more flat distribution than a true pyramid distribution

- Dice are extremely biased - House edge is tremendously increased (example Blue dice at Sunset Station, Henderson, NV)

- Stick of dice with mixed results - some fair, some not fair and/or some die in a stick biased to different numbers

Player beware ... observe before you play blindly

So please explain how the house edge is increased? Are you implying that the 7 is rolled more often? Well if that's the case why don't you just play the don't pass and clean up?
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6270
March 15th, 2013 at 10:07:56 PM permalink
Quote: Beardgoat

So please explain how the house edge is increased? Are you implying that the 7 is rolled more often? Well if that's the case why don't you just play the don't pass and clean up?

Faces opposite the six are weighted, so 6-6 is a more likely combo which is not beneficial to both sides of the pass line, but it's not weighted enough for 6-6 to be a profitable bet since it has a ridiculous edge of 16.67%.

Quote: Harley

Boxman usually receives a call from "above" as to which dice are to be played on which table

Quote: bbvk05

So this.

If you truly believe this, then WHY are you playing ANY casino games PERIOD?!?!?!?!

I expect silence, or a complete lie as a response. Ball is in your court, Harley.
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
• Posts: 5139
March 16th, 2013 at 1:14:33 AM permalink
Quote: Beardgoat

So please explain how the house edge is increased? Are you implying that the 7 is rolled more often? Well if that's the case why don't you just play the don't pass and clean up?

Here's an image to explain the exposure. This is modeled from random outcomes from theoretically biased 9,8,8,8,8,9 dice. You can find more detail in other threads.

But this shows the exposure on betting the don't or the don't come every roll and laying max odds compared to the extra edge on the do side in graphical form.

In general, there is \$0.20 per roll advantage to the player with 345x lay odds if you can handle volatility. Notice on this chart, it's not until 20,000 rolls that you get enough events for the \$0.20 per roll advantage to be seen. IE: the \$0.20 exposure is only apparent after a mere 200 hours of play due to the excessive volatility on 345x odds (most individuals would give up, but the house is in it for the long haul).

10x odds has more volatility but there's a whole \$0.60 per roll advantage if you're willing to lay max odds on a \$5 bet (IE: laying \$100 on every four and ten rolled!). \$0.60 per roll, yeah, just clean up there. Show us how you're ready to put up a \$20,000 bankroll to get \$0.60 per roll advantage once you nail a pair of these unfair dice with 4 hours of counting faces.

None of this long term effect means anything to anyone except those who are truly in it for the long term. IE: it affects the edge over very long periods of time on free bets to favor the house on passline bets in theory at the expense of a possible slight exposure on the don't pass for anyone who can withstand ups and downs of tens of thousands of dollars.

If these theoretical dice exist, though, it's the field that's exposed without being hidden behind wild volatility. There are other threads on the topic. Of course you have ignored me anyway because my posts are, as you described them, "are becoming so unbelievably stupid I can't take it anymore..."

I would like you to know that your calling my posts "stupid" is offensive to me. It's pretty darn close to calling me stupid.
Harley
Joined: May 13, 2012
• Posts: 119
March 16th, 2013 at 9:29:44 AM permalink
Thank you AHigh for explaining the simple math to these guys

AHigh - 1
Beardgoat - 0
tringlomane - negative 1
bbvk05 - negative 1
irishsetter - negative 5

.... you get negative points for not understanding the math of the game you supposedly play
.... that is simply my opinion .... Ciao, Harley ... Link = http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
• Posts: 3613
March 16th, 2013 at 3:52:23 PM permalink
I need an explanation from the "bias experts."

Why are 1 and 6 more likely to show, when the 6-side is supposed to be heavier?
tupp
Joined: Feb 9, 2012
• Posts: 519
March 16th, 2013 at 7:54:40 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Why are 1 and 6 more likely to show, when the 6-side is supposed to be heavier?

It's been explained before in this forum (and at least twice before by me).

Of course, the heaviest face would have a greater tendency than the other sides to land facing downwards.

On the other hand, the heaviest side could also have a propensity to land face-up, because the rolling of the die might slow down as the heaviest face climbs to top of its arc. One encounters the same phenomenon when rolling or spinning an unbalanced wheel -- the heaviest section of the wheel travels slowest when it is at the top of its arc.

Furthermore, if a die is "shaved" on the 1 and/or 6 faces, those sides would have a propensity to land face-up relative to the other, narrower sides (even if the die is perfectly balanced).

By the way, the 6 side is not necessarily heavier (which has also been pointed-out several times on this forum). The six face should be lightest side if the pip density is less than the density of the dice body material.
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
• Posts: 11933
March 16th, 2013 at 8:01:42 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
tupp
Joined: Feb 9, 2012
• Posts: 519
March 16th, 2013 at 8:04:07 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

They are supposed to be exactly the same material.

Yet another subtopic that has already been discussed.
Harley
Joined: May 13, 2012
• Posts: 119
March 16th, 2013 at 8:44:06 PM permalink
Quote: vendman1

Are you implying that modern casinos owned by billion dollar corporations cheat in today's regulatory environment? I highly doubt it. Big difference between mobbed up Vegas of the old days and the modern era.

Here are a few dozen referenced FAILURES by our regulatory environment:

http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/forum31.php&sid=4bd701fb2f31b1a50675af1d01e0e8ac
.... that is simply my opinion .... Ciao, Harley ... Link = http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
bbvk05
Joined: Jan 12, 2011
• Posts: 382
March 16th, 2013 at 10:50:12 PM permalink
Quote: Harley

Thank you AHigh for explaining the simple math to these guys

AHigh - 1
Beardgoat - 0
tringlomane - negative 1
bbvk05 - negative 1
irishsetter - negative 5