What is your betting strategy?

So I've been trying to get a handle on craps and how to not have it clean me out. I've watched the Wizards video on it and I have adopted his strategies on his craps simulator. For those of you who don't know, he bets the Dont Pass, matches it with max odds, then plays the Dont Come every time, also getting max odds. I first tried the Pass/Come version of that strategy.

The biggest thing I noticed is Craps has a way of teasing you, getting you to load up on all these come bets, then nuke it all with a 7. Tough to see $200-$300 go down the tubes in one roll ($10 min 3/4/5). It seemed like you were waiting on the hot roll to make you $400, and hope you hadn't lost that much by then.

Then I tried the Dark Side. Of course it's the opposite. Making a bit of money here and there, terrified of the specter of the big roll looming. Of course when the big roll hits you just start hemorrhaging money while the rest of the table goes nuts. I'm not sure I'd like that in a real casino setting.

So I am trying to think of ways to alter the strategy to fit my comfort and play level. I'm thinking maybe not re up come bets when they hit. Even on a hot roll, I end up losing $300 of potential earnings when the 7 eventually comes. Of course I run the risk of bailing too early on a really hot roll, but seems to be a way to lower the risk.

I suppose another option is to focus more on place and buy bets but I'm curious what other people's strategies are. I'm trying to find a nice balance between risk and reward for me.

One unit on the pass line, 2 times odds behind, place the six or eight for one unit (rounding up to a multiple of six).

Every win on a 4 or 10, I take 5 units off the table for cash out.

The more bets you play, the more your variance is going to be. Odds adds a huge amount of variance. Great if you can stomach the dips and peaks. Don't forgot, One passline with 2xOdds is a 3 unit bet. If you add another come bet, that's another 3 units. If you don't feel comfortable exposing 6 units on the table, don't do it. $30 stakes maybe more than you want to expose, thinking you have $10 action plus $20 in "free odds".

It's great if you start hitting, not so much if you start losing.

Pass line with continuous come with 3-4-5 odds is how I play every time. Craps is a game with high variance and it's a fun way to play.

If the swings get to be too much for you, you can modify it by having a maximum of two come-points along with your pass line point.

Casino royal 3 dollar table with 10x or 20x odds. Put as little money on bets with a HE as possible. You will be more likely to have significant positive variance. Just lower the odds if you are uncomfortable with the amount... don't play a crappier game

If your goal is to hang onto your bankroll as long as possible, and have a chance to make a little money, the best strategy I have used over the past 30 years is to follow the dice. No odds, no bets other than pass or don't. Of course becoming bored will be your biggest enemy. You can play for a very long time, and as often as not, can walk away with a little money. You will never walk away with a lot of money.

My enjoyment comes from being at the table and rolling the dice so I'm pretty conservative.

I play both pass and don't pass and typically I start with a single bet backed with odds which is x3-4-5 even though most of my sessions are done at Casino Royale where I could have x20 odds.

If I'm up when I'm on the don't pass and I get a 4 or a 10 as the point then I make a don't come. Then I wait it out and let those two bets resolve. If I'm up and I'm playing the don't and the point isn't 4 or 10 then I lay more odds out -- say $30-60 on my $3 don't pass -- depending on my mood. Also I sometimes play a place 6 or 8 if I've only got one bet out and I'm up.

If I'm on the pass at the $3 table at Casino Royale then I start with strict x3-4-5 odds so $9, $12, $15. If I get up then I move my odds up to $15, $20, $25. If I make a few points after that then I put a come bet out. I don't play the place 6 or 8 when I'm on the pass.

If I lose both bets or am down in my starting bank roll I go back to the single bet with strict x3-4-5 odds -- pass or don't pass.

--helpmespock

Quote: dihaig

If your goal is to hang onto your bankroll as long as possible, and have a chance to make a little money, the best strategy I have used over the past 30 years is to follow the dice. No odds, no bets other than pass or don't. Of course becoming bored will be your biggest enemy. You can play for a very long time, and as often as not, can walk away with a little money. You will never walk away with a lot of money.

http://www.beatingbonuses.com/simulator_java.htm

I'm going to do PL only because I obviously don't know how one table will be compared to the other. I set it up for a .4929 probability of winning one unit with a .5071 probability of losing one unit. I made the buy-in $100, the Table Minimum (What you are betting) $5, and set it up to wager a total of $500 (100 PL Bets). Here are the results of 500,000 simulations:

Average Return: -$7.00
Loss: 51.72%
Gain: 40.41%
Bust: 6.06%

I'm assuming the missing 7.87% were all dead even after those bets, but let me run one more to confirm....7.84% that time.

You could walk away with, "A lot of money," relative to your buy-in, as it were. You can only lose $100 in this simulation, but +$89 is where we find ourselves for the second standard deviation, +$140 is in the third, and our best performer was +$230. (73 Wins, 27 Losses)

I have to take off right now, but I just ran another one for $2,500 in bets (500 PL Bets), and you still only bust out 48.24% of the time, the average return is -$26.88, though.

Another issue is that in the short run, you are more likely to lose a "free" bet.

Only make passline and come bets until you have a profit, and don't bet anything on "free" bets except profits. This will ensure that you only us volatile plays with money you didn't already have before you started playing.

I don't do this myself, but a less volatile game when you're losing (making it harder to lose) is sometimes a little less threatening until you get comfortable to know what to expect with each bet in the short term.

The biggest mistake I think readers of this forum have is in thinking the house edge matters at all for a one-hour session. Generally speaking, it means NOTHING in that short of a run. So forget the edge when you are getting started with the game and try to make sure you aren't having a terrible experience by losing too quickly making bets that can be smarter in the long run at the expense of more likely to cause you to lose everything in the short run.

Those smart bets are stupid if you are risking money that you would become unhappy if you lost it.

I'd be very curious to get Teddy's response to what I have just said above as he has seen how I bet and is familiar with the level of fun I derive from the game in relation to how I do things. He bets the WOV way religiously and has experienced "bad luck." So maybe he has some perspective to add to the story as well.

I am just a simple person. Many of the times I have no idea what people on this site are talking about...like now. Are you agreeing disagreeing or just giving information. In my world, if I start with $100, and get up $230, that is not life changing. If I lose $100 6.06% of the time, that's not life changing either. I just hang around the craps table and watch people make a lot of bets, for a little risk. That's my little bit of fun. I almost always get at least a free buffet out of it also.

Quote: Ahigh

The biggest mistake I think readers of this forum have is in thinking the house edge matters at all for a one-hour session. Generally speaking, it means NOTHING in that short of a run.

The house edge -with the variance- effect the short term as well as the long term. And the medium term, as well. The 'fuzziness' of potential results is much more in the short term, but that's EXACTLY what the maths of probability tells us. If you make high house edge bets, you are more likely to lose than win, even in a hour session.

The thinking that 'well anything can happen in the next roll' leads to all sorts of strange conclusions, which are fine if you want to argue in terms of 'hey it was worth the shot' but if you are trying to maximize various values (time at table, chance of busting, chance of making a certain target amount), the math tells you the story of your potential outcomes. Making higher edge bets is always going to lower your expected returns. Making higher variance bets is always going to increase your chances of busting or making a target amount. Short or long term.

Quote: Ahigh

I'd be very curious to get Teddy's response to what I have just said above as he has seen how I bet and is familiar with the level of fun I derive from the game in relation to how I do things. He bets the WOV way religiously and has experienced "bad luck." So maybe he has some perspective to add to the story as well.

Not really. My story is pretty simple. I
(1) Bet big;
(2) On free bets;
(3) Lost huge; and
(4) Felt like shit.
That's all there was to it. But yes, I would say psychological happiness is more important than betting as optimally as possible. The Wizard would say you need to disregard this, and there's no accounting for luck. But it's all about keeping your health (both your bankroll and yourself) optimal.

The following has been moderately successful the latest few sessions: $5 pass and then $10 odds. Wait for a box number to be rolled AFTER the point is established(my shooter qualifier that helps with the point seven out trends), then $52,$54 across. Collect 3 hits. Then press one, take one, press one, take one, etc. until all bets get to $20,24. $700 day bankroll.

Averaging a net win of about $150 per session factoring wins AND losses for 6 sessions.

I break a 600 bankroll into three 200 buy ins.

First roll is $5 on the PL and 5$ on horn high ace duece

Horn hits - press horn play until horns stop hitting with half the winning horn bet.

7 rolls repeat the process until a point is established.

Point established - place 6 and 8 (if not the point) and play until a 7 rolls collecting each hit except for 1 dollar that goes on the hard 6 or 8. If a hardway hits I press the win to both the 6 and 8 hard.

If the point is rolled restart the same process but without the $5 passline bet. If a seven out is rolled I place 160 across working on the come out roll plus the horn high ace duece. Whatever the result of the comeout roll I revert back to the basic play of pressing a horn or placing the 6 and 8.

I repeat this process until a 7 "wack" on the comeout or I am up $160. At this point I cash out and start in with the next buy in. Once I hit my daily win goal I stop or if I get 3 "wacks".

So far its been working. This morning I won $290 in 2 hours and left after my #3 wack.

An interesting method of play to simulate and test with a few other variations in the WinCraps Pro Beta program
I have a few Qs for yous

Quote: Aztek

Point established

do you take any odds? if yes, how many?

Quote: Aztek

- place 6 and 8 (if not the point)
and play until a 7 rolls collecting each hit except for 1 dollar that goes on the hard 6 or 8.

You mean the 7out.
So if the place 6 hits you take $1 from the net win and place it on the hard6

Quote: Aztek

If a hardway hits I press the win to both the 6 and 8 hard.

You have $1 on the Hard6 and it hits. Pays $9
You press the hard6 to $2. press means to double the last bet amount.
Do you now bet $2 on the hard8 also or just $1.
You had $0 on the hard 8 and if you press it (double the bet) $0 *2 = $0
And when a hardway bet lost, do you wait until a place bet wins to replace it or do you replace it right away?

Quote: Aztek

If the point is rolled restart the same process but without the $5 passline bet.

The same process is...?
OK. Your hardways, if any, are working on the come out roll. Default Nevada rules.
Place bets, if any, are off on the cor.
No pass line bet (hard to do if you are the shooter) and you make the $5 HornH3
With the Organic Craps machine, the dice just roll without you making a bet. Got it.

Quote: Aztek

If a seven out is rolled I place 160 across working on the come out roll plus the horn high ace duece.
Whatever the result of the comeout roll I revert back to the basic play of pressing a horn or placing the 6 and 8.

I repeat this process until a 7 "wack" on the comeout or I am up $160.
At this point I cash out and start in with the next buy in.
Once I hit my daily win goal I stop or if I get 3 "wacks".

Are you buying any numbers with that $160?
Buy4&10 for $25 with a vig paid on the win??

What is your daily win goal?

I think I can code up your system after a few Qs are answered.
Then I will just make a few variations like odds,
a C&E instead of a HornH3,
making come bets instead of placing the 6&8
and test away the WinCraps pro multi-player simulator

Thanks for the ideas

Quite honestly, if you are playing craps a few hours every week, you pick your variance and edge: the higher the variance, the higher the edge, in general, especially in craps.

It depends on your style. If you're the ultimate grinder, then you play doey-don't and pick whatever side to put odds on based on the shooter. If you're disciplined and don't mind not having action on every single roll, then you'll pick PL or DP with some form of odds based on your comfort for variance. If you like action, you'll throw on a DC / Come or a place 6/8 or a buy 4/10 to give you some interest after every throw.

The fun of the game is that there are many many many ways to play the game. People here will tell you that betting anything in the centre is stupid because of the very high edges (at least 9%), and I would agree with that sentiment. However, people will sit and play the field (with the double 12) and win over a session just because the dice can be lucky for them after 100 rolls. People will play the centre and come out with a big win because they parlay a middle bit and it hits three times. It really depends on your comfort for variance.

Odds are "free bets" indeed, but if the point doesn't hit or the number hits first, then you lose those odds, period. And you are playing with a limited bankroll, a string of point - sevens in a row (or seven points in a row) can be quite damaging.

If you leave the table broke, you always go and question your strategy. Hindsight is 20-20. You may come back to the table with a different strategy, only to find that the original strategy worked perfectly, this time.

Craps is dangerous because it's easy to become undisciplined and bet stupidly or with too much money that your bankroll can't support.

do you take any odds? if yes, how many?

1)I do not take odds


So if the place 6 hits you take $1 from the net win and place it on the hard6

2)Yes. I also place 1 on the other hard way off the first hit. So both will have a 1 dollar. If a number comes easy and takes the bet down I replace them off the next win.



You press the hard6 to $2. press means to double the last bet amount.
Do you now bet $2 on the hard8 also or just $1.

3)I press both to 2 dollars.

You had $0 on the hard 8 and if you press it (double the bet) $0 *2 = $0
And when a hardway bet lost, do you wait until a place bet wins to replace it or do you replace it right away?

4)Wait til next win


The same process is...?

5) I made an error in my initial post. Here is the correct sequence:

A) If the machine makes a point and goes to the come out - $5 PL and $5 horn high ace deuce. Same play until the machine makes a point. Press the horn on wins, a seven just breaks even and sets it up again. (like a world bet)

B) Upon establishing a point place the six and eight if they are not the point already. No odds. First hit puts 1 dollar each on hard 6 and 8. Press wins on the hardways only. Collect other hits. Hits on easy ways reestablish hard way dollars. Always keep the hardway bets up until they fall. Stop pressing on hardway with w a $100 win.

C) If a seven is rolled the play is then 160 across for one roll WOTCO, buying the 4 and 10 with a horn high ace deuce. No 5 pass line (kind of just a superstition on my part not wanting a seven here). After the first hit regress down to 6 and 8. If the machine makes the point revert back to the play as in above (A).


OK. Your hardways, if any, are working on the come out roll. Default Nevada rules.
Place bets, if any, are off on the cor.
No pass line bet (hard to do if you are the shooter) and you make the $5 HornH3
With the Organic Craps machine, the dice just roll without you making a bet. Got it.


Buy4&10 for $25 with a vig paid on the win??


6)I do buy the 4 and 10 when I place 160 across


What is your daily win goal?

7)If I am not getting any "wacks" I stop at $300. Otherwise I stop at 3 wacks regardless of the outcome.

Hope that helps and thanks for the information.

Will

Do exactly what I did at Rincon a couple of weeks ago:

$5 (minimum) on the pass line. Max on the fire bet (in this case $5) and if you make a couple of passes add the six and eight and hope for a fire bet payoff, and after four passes ($125 on the fire bet) add odds to the passline, maybe a dollar hard way... get lucky and cash out. 5 fire numbers and about a $1400 profit.

Betting the old way: max odds on the passline, placing the numbers = losing the equivalent of a house over 20 years doing that.

When I play craps at a "real" table with a player thrown dice I go to Harringtons in Deleware where they have the fire bet. I like to play 3-5 dollar fire bets and feed the firebets from place 6 and 8 bets. The frequency of the hits from the 6 and 8s determine the firebet amounts. There a 5 dollar firebet will win you $1250 off 5 points. 6 points will win 5k.

If you can stand hours and hours of playing craps without betting on every shooter eventually a 4 or 5 pointer comes your way. My last trip I made a 200 buy in last 5 hours until I struck a 5 pointer and walked away with a nice haul.

If the damn place was not a 2 hour drive I would still be going there instead of the machine craps I play at now.

Quote: Mission146

I'm going to do PL only because I obviously don't know how one table will be compared to the other.
I set it up for a .4929 probability of winning one unit with a .5071 probability of losing one unit.
I made the buy-in $100, the Table Minimum (What you are betting) $5,
and set it up to wager a total of $500 (100 PL Bets).
Here are the results of 500,000 simulations:

Average Return: -$7.00
Loss: 51.72%
Gain: 40.41%
Bust: 6.06%

I'm assuming the missing 7.87% were all dead even after those bets, but let me run one more to confirm....7.84% that time.

100 bets.
Could be at the table from 3 to 5 hours depending on how fast the dice go.
Most players can last that long before time to take a break.
I have seen many players play just like that over the years. Good entertainment value for them.

All the simulation values can be exactly calculated with simple math,
so they can check each other,
well maybe not the Bust %, where a transition matrix can handle that one
or using Feller's generating function from his book and doing the calculations and summing in a spreadsheet.

Average Return: house edge*$bet*number of bets = (-7/495)*$5*100 = $7.07 check
Loss: Binomial Dist: 51.66933% check
=BINOMDIST(wins,trials,p,TRUE) =BINOMDIST(49,100,244/495,1)
Gain: Binomial Dist: 40.4509% check
= 1-BINOMDIST(wins,trials,p,TRUE) = 1-BINOMDIST(50,100,244/495,1)
Even: Binomial Dist: 7.8797% check
=BINOMDIST(wins,trials,p,FALSE) =BINOMDIST(50,100,244/495,0)
Bust: Markov Chain: 6.063513% check
Nice

Quote: Mission146

You could walk away with, "A lot of money," relative to your buy-in, as it were.
You can only lose $100 in this simulation, but +$89 is where we find ourselves for the second standard deviation, +$140 is in the third, and our best performer was +$230. (73 Wins, 27 Losses)

Even the $ win or loss can be calculated with the Binomial function in a spreadsheet.

Now the standard deviation looks to be a bit off especially for 500k sims.
I would think it to be closer.
To check it out quickly

2*$Bet * square root of (N*P*1-P)
2*$5*(100*(244/495)*(251/495))^0.5 =
$10 * 4.999500026 = $49.99500026 or $50 for the standard deviation
EV = -7.07 + 100 (2*SD) = about $93 check
(we know we can not lose exactly $93, $90 is closer)

Quote: Mission146

I have to take off right now, but I just ran another one for $2,500 in bets (500 PL Bets),
and you still only bust out 48.24% of the time, the average return is -$26.88, though.

homework time.
I get 48.115840% for the bust rate by 500 bets. check
500 bets can be many hours at the craps table.
A good long weekend of play grinding away, for some that is fun.
1000 bets: 67.353279% bust rate.

Just goes to show, the more bets you make,
the less chance you have of surviving with a fixed bankroll.

Strategy depends in part on what your initial bankroll is, and how long you are willing to play.

I'm a bit of a low-stakes player, so I stick to $10 pass and $30 odds.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Strategy depends in part on what your initial bankroll is, and how long you are willing to play.

I'm a bit of a low-stakes player, so I stick to $10 pass and $30 odds.

Yes it does.
Your $10/$30, that is still 3.84 times higher standard deviation than just the flat bettor.
A nice thrill factor.

Most craps players buy-in for low stakes, want to play a long time and walk away a session winner.
Most do not succeed and some only get 1 out of 3 results on any session.

The craziest, or the most extreme, I have ever seen was a senior that came to the casino every day, mid morning,
bought in for $1 and bet the min 25 cents on the pass line.
(so today a $20 buy-in with $5 bets would be the same)
This was 1999 in Reno at the Bonanza Casino, above the university, I am sure the 25cent game is long gone.
Maybe TIMSPEED knows the current limits.

But the dealers told me this guy, a proud world war 2 vet,
about 2-3 days a week and even sometimes more,
would last 3 to 4 hours playing this way betting on every shooter, even himself,
when the table was busy and most times it was with many other seniors.

Doing the math now,
he had a 50/50 chance of lasting 30 bets (1 to 2 hours of play) to me that is surprising.
and about a 35.6% chance of lasting 60 bets (say 2 to 4 hours of play on a slow game)

I think I recall a dealer mentioning that he had a great few weeks once
were he turned his $1 stake into $60. (about a 1 in 38 shot)

fun for some may not be fun for all

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Strategy depends in part on what your initial bankroll is, and how long you are willing to play.

I'm a bit of a low-stakes player, so I stick to $10 pass and $30 odds.

That makes you a $40 bettor, if that's all your action. Is $40 considered still low-stakes?

Why do people always say to take max odds? if I bet $5 on the passline and then back it up with $10 odds, don't I have the same chance of winning that bet as I do if I put $25 odds? I know I'm not likely to be at a yellow chip very quickly but I can always press bets if the table is hot. Can someone explain the thought of always taking max odds?

Quote: thecesspit

That makes you a $40 bettor, if that's all your action.
Is $40 considered still low-stakes?

Could be all of his action.

Over time he really is just a $30 bettor since 1/3 of his bets are won or lost at the $10 level.
1/3*$10 + 2/3*$40 = $90/3

And for comps, unless the box really likes him, he is just a $10 bettor.
Some casinos on the Strip do not even notice a player betting less than $25 so he could be a $0 bettor there.

It is how you look at it

Quote: Beardgoat

Why do people always say to take max odds? if I bet $5 on the passline and then back it up with $10 odds, don't I have the same chance of winning that bet as I do if I put $25 odds? I know I'm not likely to be at a yellow chip very quickly but I can always press bets if the table is hot. Can someone explain the thought of always taking max odds?

Because mathematically-oriented people look for the bet with the lowest house edge. A pass line bet with max odds has a house edge in the range of 0.18-0.34%. Therefore, it is an optimal bet from that standpoint.

But you should never bet more than you are comfortable with. Max odds is a good bet but very high variance (can go both ways). The point is to take at least SOME odds.

Quote: Beardgoat

Why do people always say to take max odds?

It is the easiest reply.
They only consider the lowest possible house edge and expected loss (EV).
They consider nothing else has any value, like playing time length etc.

https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/craps/odds-bets/
"For the player who puts a priority on minimizing the overall house edge,
the best strategy is to make combinations of pass, don’t pass, come, and don’t come bets, and always take the maximum allowable odds."

Some will say to bet less on the flat bet and more on the odds. That is a good thing.
Instead of betting $25 flat
try $5 with $20 odds or $10 with $15 odds.
You loose less and win more over time,
but you will still find those that will disagree.

Quote: Beardgoat

if I bet $5 on the passline and then back it up with $10 odds,
don't I have the same chance of winning that bet as I do if I put $25 odds?

Yep. The odds bet does absolutely nothing to help the bet win.
Even the dice do not know you have made the odds bet.

Quote: Beardgoat

I know I'm not likely to be at a yellow chip very quickly but I can always press bets if the table is hot.

Sure, increase your bets as you win instead of as you are losing may be a good way to go for your enjoyment playing the game

Quote: thecesspit

That makes you a $40 bettor, if that's all your action. Is $40 considered still low-stakes?

Compared to some of the 3-digit figures I see thrown around in this thread, I would say so.

Quote: Beardgoat

Why do people always say to take max odds? if I bet $5 on the passline and then back it up with $10 odds, don't I have the same chance of winning that bet as I do if I put $25 odds? I know I'm not likely to be at a yellow chip very quickly but I can always press bets if the table is hot. Can someone explain the thought of always taking max odds?

Taking odds on craps is the best bet in the casino (well, except for counting cards, or finding a >100% VP machine). While you do have the same chance of winning with $10 odds that you do with $25 odds, you would have to make 2.5 pass bets, with the corresponding increased house advantage on those bets as opposed to the odds bets, in order to bet $25 worth of odds. Making the maximum odds bet simply reduces the number of times they have to be bet on "lesser" bets such as the pass line.

Thanks don. Your explanation made it click. Its not the value of the odds itself, but the additional passline/come bets being risked. Makes sense now. Thanks

Quote: 7craps

Could be all of his action.

Over time he really is just a $30 bettor since 1/3 of his bets are won or lost at the $10 level.
1/3*$10 + 2/3*$40 = $90/3

And for comps, unless the box really likes him, he is just a $10 bettor.
Some casinos on the Strip do not even notice a player betting less than $25 so he could be a $0 bettor there.

It is how you look at it

Indeed, comps-wise.

I just suggest looking at total exposure when you are thinking about how much you are betting. The odds bet encourages people to bat above their bank roll. Their expectation is the same, the casino wins no more or no less, but the enjoyment factors can be reduced... a $200 buy in betting $10 with x3 odds may not last as long a $10 pass with $6 on the 6 and 8. Even if the cost to play is greater for the second player, the variance is smaller. In the LOOONG haul with big bankrolls, the first player will do better. But if your aim is to hang around a while, placing too much on the odds can be hazardous.

Or it might be great, extreme variance maybe just what the gambler wants!

I'm just saying if playing $30-$40 / hand at blackjack brings you out in a sweat, think about it when playing craps.

Thank you for confirming my Simulation Data, 7Craps!

That's probably not the world's best simulator, but it's free, it's easy (for some things), and I know exactly nothing about programming!

Quote: Mission146

That's probably not the world's best simulator, but it's free, it's easy (for some things), and I know exactly nothing about programming!

YW
It seems to be fairly accurate on the sims. no real big testing on my part.
Better than nothing, even if it has small errors we do not see.

The site also has a streak calculator I come across now and then
that still has a few errors in it that was fixed by guru BruceZ and can be found here
http://www.pulcinientertainment.com/info/Streak-Calculator-enter.html

Nice Work

Thanks!

Thank you also for the link to that streak calculator, that will help me tremendously with the many Martingale questions we get on here, as well as with some other things. I often wonder about win streaks on Video Keno, so now I can use that to determine the liklihood of my hitting x streak within y games more easily.

Money management is the key to all casino activity. for me as a dice setter it is key. end of story.

I have money set aside for craps only..... my wins go back in, i play with that money And if i lose my
account drops in value. I will not use a starting spread of more than 2% of my account. For me that is
is $200. Now i understand i am to conservative so i like to keep it to $120 if i can.

You cant win playing with scared money .....period... so this way i can whether some bad trips and still be ok. And believe
me i have...... You keep your loses smaller than otherwise, if you understand what you lose today will affect
what you can bet tomorrrow.

I used to use my pocket book or credit card..... it was and is to easy to chase loses... and dig a whole.

For the average guy that goes and buys in for $200, you cant play pass line and $54 across and a $10
field and $5 on all the hard ways. If that is the way you play, give me a call, i will take your $200 and
give you $50 back..... you will be way ahead.

Dicesitter.

Dice-setter or not, bankroll management and discipline are keys to having a chance at craps.

As are loaded dice.

well


loaded dice would have saved me a great deal of practice time that is for sure.


dicesitter

Quote: Beardgoat

Why do people always say to take max odds? if I bet $5 on the passline and then back it up with $10 odds, don't I have the same chance of winning that bet as I do if I put $25 odds? I know I'm not likely to be at a yellow chip very quickly but I can always press bets if the table is hot. Can someone explain the thought of always taking max odds?

You are absolutely correct: betting max odds will not make you win. But if you do win, you will win more. When you lose, you lose more.

The "math guys" advocate making bets with the lowest house advantage or edge and max odds will do that. But betting max odds will not make you win. There is no betting plan, scheme or formula that will make you a winner at craps hence the great pursuit to find the magical dice influencer or controller -- the sacred cow of the craps world, the holy grail of the dice pit, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the.... Oh, you get it.

For me it really depends on what I am doing?

A) shooting the dice,
B) betting on others

For A) shooting the dice, it depends on how I feel, if I think I can have a hand from where I am positioned at table. Am I using a Parr shot or a Little Joe shot. Is it a Fire table or ATS or nothing at all non bonus table.

If I'm feeling pretty good I might set a point, then fire $64 across and power press until my 15th roll where I could reduce $ on felt to $81-$84 across. If I don't get to 15 rolls I basically lost around $70 but of I do , I can rack $500-1000. Maybe more of I have a hand into the 40-50 then thousands.

Salutations VegasDiceController,

I read all your posts on the other Craps forum and I am VERY impressed with your Bet Pressing exploits on your Trip Reports. On my last Craps trip a couple of weeks ago, I had 4 separate hands at 25,25,25,30 rolls before 7ing out. My best turn was back to back hands of 25 rolls before 7ing out where I waited for the Dice to get back to me without betting on anyone else.

I made GREAT money on this trip but in the back of my mind.....I was thinking if I powerpressed my bets like VDC details on those hands, I would have KILLED it with his power presses and made a 5 Figure Profit instead of the 4 Figure Profit I left with especially when I started raining down 4's and 10's...(Hardways all Day).

I'm wargaming a pressing schedule using your format on my practice sessions on a 12 Foot Craps Table in preparation for my next Craps trip coming up in a few weeks.

Glad to see you posting again.

Respectfully,

CrapsForever