Ardent1
Ardent1
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
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January 23rd, 2013 at 4:26:08 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Simple: It doesn't.

The shake / pop produces an unknown result which is then read optically by the camera.


Note that I used the word "unknown" rather than "random".


Does one outcome influence the next? I.E. Is it less than random? Maybe. Perhaps. I don't know. Then again, I don't care. I say this based upon nothing other than a wish to not engage that part of the argument.

Assuming there IS an influence, good luck with coming up with a procedure for tracking it and exploiting it.



DJTeddyBear, did you test for randomness or not? That is the issue. No one is trying to have an argument, but I just want to know if people who played e-craps tested the game for randomness.

So does the computer via software instruct the generator to shake the same amount of time for each?

Did you try to time the amount of shakes? etc, etc.

If you didn't collect the MOST BASIC data, then you are just offering an opinion.

If you recall, you stated: "At that point, there is on huge bounce, with very unpredictable results. {note bold for emphasis}

So that is just your effen opinion. The bottomline is YOU DON'T KNOW SH*T!
Pokeraddict
Pokeraddict
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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January 23rd, 2013 at 4:31:29 PM permalink
I've played these a bunch and they are extremely streaky. Quite a few 30+ rolls on these for the amount of times I played them. I would not be shocked if there was a rhythm to them but good luck finding it.

I stopped playing them as they aged and started having issues and casinos stopped paying points or trimmed them down to 2x odds. One casino refused to pay me on an obvious winner because the camera failed to read the dice properly and the machine locked up. They called it a machine malfunction and laughed when I asked them if any logical person could argue that the dice said a different number than I claimed. I stopped playing the game and at that casino after that. We were talking about $20 they obviously owed me and they refused to pay it.
98Clubs
98Clubs
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
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January 23rd, 2013 at 5:20:53 PM permalink
If thats true Ardent1, when is roulette locked?
Recent epitaph: Found dead by a Pokemon Go Player
mdh
mdh
Joined: Feb 23, 2011
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January 23rd, 2013 at 6:13:05 PM permalink
I have not posted in a long time (even though I read 1 or 2 Hrs. a day on this site), but after reading these posts on this thread I thought I would chime in!

Back in May of last year my wife and I saw one of those bubble craps in a downtown casino and decided to try. We each stuck a 20 in and away we went. 2 hrs. later my wife ticketed out for 480 (I won 60). She played almost exclusively the field and the 2 and 12 (mostly 12). I have never seen so many 12s in my life. By the time we were finished, there were no seats left and about 20 people standing behind my wife watching her play (due to us laughing our asses off).

The next day the same thing happened in a Boulder Strip casino and then again at a different downtown casino (but not as much as the 1st time we played). Several 40+ rolls in there also. It seemed that you could wait for a flood of come-out reds and then the big roll would happen.

I should mention that we were skinned a few times also. Me for 20, but my wife for 100 twice (chasing that damn 12). I don't know if anyone else noticed but after the longer rolls (15+) when the 7 finally came it seemed that the thing would miss-pop. As soon as we saw the miss-pop we knew it would be a 7. Not 1 time did it miss-pop on a different number. We ended up probably 500+ all together on the trip. Can't wait to get back to Vegas.

Sorry for the long post, I got excited.
bbvk05
bbvk05
Joined: Jan 12, 2011
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January 23rd, 2013 at 6:43:39 PM permalink
Why illegally rig an already rigged game?
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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January 23rd, 2013 at 7:15:55 PM permalink
Quote: bbvk05

Why illegally rig an already rigged game?



Right. If anything is not random, it is a failure of the creators to generate data that is hard enough to predict.

But rigged? No, it doesn't need to be rigged MORE it is rigged by definition.

This meme reminds me of the debate over whether the casinos are using biased dice. I hope that debate has been put to bed.

But I will admit that last night after having dice changed on me at the Silverton, I had my set wrong for a moment, and I could feel a ridge between the two dice.

I told the stick man, "these dice don't feel right." And he (Stan at the time) said, "there's nothing wrong with the dice" without even glancing over or anything.

I thought to myself that it wouldn't make any difference over the short haul anyway, but I felt like if those dice got put up in the caliper, you'd measure differently on the three measurements for sure.

But in general, I don't believe the casinos are doing that stuff on purpose. There are absolutely bad dice that get through. The caliper they use at the Silverton is a relic of ancient Egypt (or so it seems).
TheNightfly
TheNightfly
Joined: May 21, 2010
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January 23rd, 2013 at 7:29:02 PM permalink
The idea of casinos introducing rigged or gaffed dice into the game to keep players from winning makes no sense at all.

If a set of dice is not going to produce random results then it's obviously going to produce results that any player can take advantage of. If somehow dice could be designed that would roll more 7's then you just load up the pass line. I don't see any way that anyone can explain how gaffed dice could possibly benefit the casino's bottom line unless they know for a fact that every player was betting the right way 100% of time time or the dark side 100% of the time.

The only question would be, "How do you know if the dice are gaffed?" and in response I'd ask, "How does the casino know what numbers you're going to bet?"
Happiness is underrated
bbvk05
bbvk05
Joined: Jan 12, 2011
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January 23rd, 2013 at 7:44:12 PM permalink
Quote: TheNightfly

The idea of casinos introducing rigged or gaffed dice into the game to keep players from winning makes no sense at all.

If a set of dice is not going to produce random results then it's obviously going to produce results that any player can take advantage of. If somehow dice could be designed that would roll more 7's then you just load up the pass line. I don't see any way that anyone can explain how gaffed dice could possibly benefit the casino's bottom line unless they know for a fact that every player was betting the right way 100% of time time or the dark side 100% of the time.

The only question would be, "How do you know if the dice are gaffed?" and in response I'd ask, "How does the casino know what numbers you're going to bet?"



Well, I agree with your idea. But introducing dice that favor 6's could result in a universal increase in the house edge. It is just unnecessary because the tables are already killers.

Also, it doesn't seem possible to bias dice in a way that kills odds bets. There is no single number that you could favor that would create more sevens. You'd have to have a set of dice with different numbers biased. This kind of system would be quite hard to maintain when players pick from 5 dice.
JESUS1
JESUS1
Joined: Apr 2, 2018
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April 2nd, 2018 at 1:52:23 PM permalink
YES!, Totally Possible tor Rig the machines and it is done often!
Especially to ward off unwanted , advantaged or lucky players with high winnings or long streaks-
Unbealivably done and flawlessley.
I´m sorry to break the news, it is question is on so many forums and no one dares say the truth.. or it is censured.. I built 3 casinos and have worked tightly with owners.. they mentioned it but after being an advantaged player at competeing casinos of those I built.. well I must let you all know the truth, the cards can be put at random shuffle or in ORDER shuffle. In Order Shuffle cards can be read. And in my case being an advantaged player as well ,I am not welcomed at most casinos, at those casinos especially those run By Cirsa - Codere they will Order the cards as soon as I hit their tables.The dealers know me and or pit bosses do and will delay the game a bit then the action begins giving dealer constant 20 and 21 and blackjack or extended 2,3,5,4,2,3,2 amazing but true I just laugh and smile and give their cameras and dealers a thubs up and play Baccarat or Poker. They know that I know what they do and acceot it and so do I I don't play the house on those games, I can only do it at casinos where I am not known. I somethimes outrack them playing 2 or three hands and back to one hand but they will win, the stacking is made so perfectly and at the end that it wil beat all the changes made or disorientations I have tried on the machines , like playing 2 and 3 hand and back to one hand.. impossible still. Confromted one day I told them I knew and the said .. ¨so if you know just dont play us in Blackjack or the house stick to holdem Poker and do not challenge us..¨ , they told me. All CSM can do it but the One to Six is the best at it.
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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April 2nd, 2018 at 2:21:22 PM permalink
Quote: JESUS1

YES!,


Hey Jesus !!!

Welcome back dude. Did you have a good Easter.

Well I guess the dying bit sucked, but you are proof that resurrection* works, so it's not all bad.

After all, you just resurrected 3 threads, one of which had been dead for seven whole years.

And all three replies remarkably similar.

*Or was it reincarnation?
Last edited by: OnceDear on Apr 2, 2018
If you are enjoying the game, you're already winning.

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