FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
• Posts: 3171
January 23rd, 2013 at 12:18:46 PM permalink
Quote: Ardent1

The big question that no one is addressing is "how" does the electronic device cause the the dice to come to its final outcome. I.e. how does the machine "simulate the "throw" of dice.

DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 9941
January 23rd, 2013 at 12:20:21 PM permalink
Quote: Ardent1

So basically, my position is there is like a 5x5 matrix or 25 cell of different combinations of ball speed and wheel speed. All my assertion is that software is picking one of the 25 cells right before the ball is released instructing the device on how fast to launch the ball in one direction and to set the speed of the wheel in the other direction.

Assume you're right. Then what? My assertion is, assuming you're right, that the machine picks them randomly, and not to target a specific sector.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition.
TheNightfly
Joined: May 21, 2010
• Posts: 480
January 23rd, 2013 at 12:23:12 PM permalink
Quote: Ardent1

I tried to clock the ball launch speed and I am positive there are at least 5 different ball speeds so clearly the software is discerning at what speed the ball is being launched at. I searched the internet and there is ample information about air pressure to launch the ball.

I also tried to clock the wheel, and again, I am positive there are at least 5 different speeds at which the wheel initial spins at and again this is also driven by software.

So basically, my position is there is like a 5x5 matrix or 25 cell of different combinations of ball speed and wheel speed. All my assertion is that software is picking one of the 25 cells right before the ball is released instructing the device on how fast to launch the ball in one direction and to set the speed of the wheel in the other direction.

The other form of randomness is due to the 16 or so deflector pins.

I've clocked those wheels (Harrah's Ak-Chin for example) as well and even if you are correct that there are precisely 5 ball speeds and 5 wheel speeds, you're not taking into account the position of the wheel when the ball is launched. Your final bets are locked before the ball is launched so even if you know the speed at which the ball will be released AND the speed of the wheel, you won't know the position of the wheel at launch as this happens after your bets are locked. There are just too many factors to account for to be able to predict even which side of the wheel the ball will stop... not unlike a real roulette game dealt by a croupier.
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DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 9941
January 23rd, 2013 at 12:26:55 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Quote: Ardent1

The big question that no one is addressing is "how" does the electronic device cause the the dice to come to its final outcome. I.e. how does the machine "simulate the "throw" of dice.

Simple: It doesn't.

The shake / pop produces an unknown result which is then read optically by the camera.

Note that I used the word "unknown" rather than "random".

Does one outcome influence the next? I.E. Is it less than random? Maybe. Perhaps. I don't know. Then again, I don't care. I say this based upon nothing other than a wish to not engage that part of the argument.

Assuming there IS an influence, good luck with coming up with a procedure for tracking it and exploiting it.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition.
Ardent1
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
• Posts: 168
January 23rd, 2013 at 4:01:14 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm still confused about what game we're actually talking about. Are we talking about what many call "bubble craps"? If so, is the theory that the dice are unequally weighted or somehow correlated?

I did the research and these are in fact Interblock's Organic Dice machines as I compared the devices to Maryland Live's casino propoganda.

Here's Interblock's propaganda on the game and PLEASE pay attention to 1:00 to 1:03 in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSV59lHIScQ -- the video makes a comment about how the "computer" controls the "shaker".

I was right -- there is a computer, therefore, you need "software" to run the damn thing. How the game plays depends on how well the software is written.

Basically, the generator shakes the dice and SOFTWARE tells the generator how much to shake.
Ardent1
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
• Posts: 168
January 23rd, 2013 at 4:03:35 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Look at the Interblock propaganda video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSV59lHIScQ -- the answer should be self-evident.
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
• Posts: 11413
January 23rd, 2013 at 4:06:08 PM permalink
Quote: Ardent1

I was right -- there is a computer, therefore, you need "software" to run the damn thing.

And have you ever seen the label on any packaged food? It's full of "ingredients." When will such outrages end?
You can visit my blog Kathy's Cooking Corner at kathyscookingcorner.blogspot.mx ... .... When someone offers you friendship with one hand and stabs you in the back with the other, you tend to notice the knife a little bit more.
Ardent1
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
• Posts: 168
January 23rd, 2013 at 4:15:10 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Assume you're right. Then what? My assertion is, assuming you're right, that the machine picks them randomly, and not to target a specific sector.

DJTeddyBear, unlike you I don't make assumptions that things are random. I test for randomness using established statistical techniques.

Btw, I also search for independent verification of randomness. For example Interblock stated that Gaming Labs. Inc. had reviewed these roulette machines. Here is the GLI info on testing for randomness: http://www.gaminglabs.com/default.asp?contentID=141
Ardent1
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
• Posts: 168
January 23rd, 2013 at 4:16:00 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

And have you ever seen the label on any packaged food? It's full of "ingredients." When will such outrages end?

Nareed, are you being unctuous again?
Ardent1
Joined: Dec 19, 2012