Long roll at the Silverton tonight

I had a very long roll at the Silverton tonight coincidentally at the same time that TeddyS introduced me to Mike (not on this website).

Teddy, Mike, and I all bought in for $1,000 each.

Mike is known for betting very aggressively.

I didn't count my rolls, but Mike loaded up every number with $5 line/come bets and $50 odds, and pressed up aggressively on every number up to as much as $500 odds.

I didn't roll any sevens on any comeout rolls, and he works his odds on the comeout.

At the end of the roll, he had over $4,400 in profit. My host came out (Chantel) and introduced herself to Mike and offered Mike a food comp and signed him up for a player card.

I made money, but I was not really betting for myself (at all) just $5 on the line and nothing else.

I am up significantly since starting my grind, but I'm nowhere near ready to risk the kind of cash that Mike was risking on my roll, and I was happy making $25.

On my next roll, I hit a $25 pass line bet and a $50 come bet and ended being up $100 and called that good enough. I'm up about $500 for three days and pretty happy with that. But more than anything, I have won all of my last ten plus sessions and my rolls are feeling like they are back on track.

I explained to Mike before we headed to the table that my best rolls are when I'm not betting, and he definitely benefited from me concentrating on shooting instead of betting and other things.

Quote: Ahigh

I explained to Mike before we headed to the table that my best rolls are when I'm not betting, and he definitely benefited from me concentrating on shooting instead of betting and other things.

I think during the Civil War 'the long roll' meant to get your butt in gear and report for imminent combat. For some reason your subject line struck me that way.

Teddy seems ominously missing from your report after buying in, I hope the Long Roll didnt get him! He didnt go darkside against you rolling I hope?

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Quote: sodawater

yes i bet the dice knew you were concentrating very hard so they made sure to look at the layout on their way across the table and land so as to win bets for you and your friend.

Nice insult. When in Rome...

FWIW sodawater (and moderators), I take offense to your comment.

For what purpose did you make that comment?

Quote: sodawater

yes i bet the dice knew you were concentrating very hard so they made sure to look at the layout on their way across the table and land so as to win bets for you and your friend.

Ahigh you should laugh at comments like that and not take it as an insult.

Just curious... what did you do differently this time around? Did the dice stay on axis this time? Did they hit the same spot on the table with a controlled and soft roll to the back wall? What was it with your roll/toss/shot that made them "work" this time?

I remained calm and I just did my thing.

I had one roll where the dice hit the diamonds, and I called it out saying "oh no." But I got lucky.

All the other rolls kept the dice off the pyramids and were stil legal throws that I felt like I did what I could to stay in the parameters of what I think is a good shot.

I didn't count the rolls, but maybe Teddy could estimate the number of throws. The big difference was absolutely Mike's betting style of extreme pressure that really bets on the super long roll with no sevens and he got one from me.

He had no more than $100 risk during the entire throw as the measured amount of possible loss from the first throw (for the type that thinks they are playing with the house's money).

Well, can't you give us some kind of estimate for the number of throws? Were there five, ten, fifteen, twenty?

30 +/- 5 would be my estimate. Everyone was so fascinated by all the black chips in the rail nobody was really counting rolls.

Mike could have had a big week. I met him and teddy at Main Street Station when we landed in Vegas on Sunday 12/30 at 8:00 PM.
The four shooters before me only made 1 point if I recall correctly.
When the dice came to me, I had a 25 minute roll, right out of the gate.

It was an interesting comparison of styles. I was betting $5 PL, full odds, and I started with $85 Inside. When I hit a number, I bet the 4 and 10.
Unfortunately for those guys though, I did have a couple of come out 7 rolls. One with bases loaded and odds working, and another one with 3 or 4 numbers covered, again with odds.

Because of those come out 7s, with odds working, my across style came out on top. IF the odds had been off when bases were loaded, I think they may have had the upper hand.



PS. I came home with CRAP. Fever chills, all that ugly stuff. Not sure if it is 24 hour bug or flu at this point, but I feel like SHIT

Quote: Ahigh

and he definitely benefited from me concentrating on shooting

Come on, Aaron!!! You post a silly comment like that and you DON"T expect the usual guffaws???

You are implying that your 'concentration' made the dice listen to your requests?

Quote: Ahigh

Nice insult. When in Rome...

FWIW sodawater (and moderators), I take offense to your comment.

For what purpose did you make that comment?

You set yourself up when you make statements like:

Quote:

I explained to Mike before we headed to the table that my best rolls are when I'm not betting, and he definitely benefited from me concentrating on shooting instead of betting and other things.

You got lucky and that is great and all but don't act like you and your friends won because you concentrated more and were betting less than the other players.

Edit: I see while I was replying someone else basically said the same thing.

Quote: Ahigh

I explained to Mike before we headed to the table that my best rolls are when I'm not betting, and he definitely benefited from me concentrating on shooting instead of betting and other things.

This has been pointed out in earlier posts

Quote: Pokeraddict

You got lucky and that is great and all but don't act like you and your friends won because you concentrated more and were betting less than the other players.

Lucky or not lucky.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/big-wins/3665-another-big-craps-win/#post42388

aahigh
December 10th, 2010 at 5:15:53 PM

I have played quite a lot of craps.
Rolling the same pair of numbers back-to-back is something I notice and something I occasionally try for.
I do typically set dice and I try to hit the same thing repetitively.
I usually set boxcars and throw with an ice tong throw.
I don't claim anything other than what is factual, and I have not made any big money doing this.
...
The folks at Silverton have been under pressure at least 2 or 3 times from my throwing, but I typically only bet $5 pass lines,

aahigh
December 10th, 2010 at 8:37:23 PM
No I don't really claim anything in particular with regards to being able to control the dice.
...
But what I really wanted to point out is that it's not complicated to know if you are having an effect on the dice or not if you set specific goals and try to achieve them.

I do generally do better when I take the time to set the dice at hitting pairs.
However, I don't try to capitalize on hitting more pairs. I have made lots of money for other players who play hard ways.

So my basic MO is to set the dice and watch other people win when I hit hard ways or horn bets (I never bet horn bets, but when I rolled those 3 aces in a row, the guy next to me made a good amount .. I'm sure he lost it just as quickly.)

Still, if anybody wants to bet my rolls,
I prefer to do it that way as I'm not trying to make a lot of money, just interested in learning to roll at this point.

aahigh
December 11th, 2010 at 4:15:36 AM
So I went tonight to the Silverton. I tried and hit more hardways and pairs than ever.

Please don't misunderstand that I claim I can do this all the time, but if you witness it, you would maybe understand why I am posting here and inviting people to come.

aahigh
December 12th, 2010 at 9:02:57 PM
Understanding I'm not claiming I can control the dice.
I only claim to have done what I have done and that it has been fun. You cannot argue with the facts, and I have done what I have claimed to have done, and I have plenty of witnesses.

But do please understand I am not claiming I can always do it.

I let it be known to everyone that I play for fun, and fun is what I get.

I do strive for dice control, but not for greed .. rather to have a good time and to get the props from the dealers and the players alike.
Whether I can control the dice or not, plenty of people believe that I can, and that's good enough for me.

I honestly am smart enough not to believe that I can do it, and I certainly don't have the wins to even back up such claims.




This should be the year of Dice Control. Mark it on the calendar!

Alan M can video the event and Ahigh becomes newest Craps God

I admit I failed to see the comedy in this before now, but thanks for the laugh

7craps, thanks for the summary. I appreciate everyone's feedback.

Mike (not the Wizard) is the most modest guy in the world and probably doesn't like us talking about him here. (But more likely he doesn't care).

For the record I did not make any money on the roll besides a hundred or two because I stopped making come bets after you set the 4, 10 and 6 and I don't set more than three points on my current system. I had $120 on the layout. Mike had about $2,200 at max out.

I estimate 20-30 rolls. Very few craps/elevens, and of course, no sevens. Very few hardways. I think you made the eight about six or seven times, the four a couple times, and a bunch of fives. No tens. It was a good roll; by no means spectacular, but just about an ideal roll for Mike.

The dealers didn't quite know how to handle that kind of action, and it was fun to watch them sweat. Of course, the tipping thing probably requires a whole different thread.

Quote:

He had no more than $100 risk during the entire throw as the measured amount of possible loss from the first throw (for the type that thinks they are playing with the house's money).

Actually his biggest possible loss per hand is $300 (the sequence 4,5,6,8,9,10,7 for example). I don't think he presses until he's made back everything he has on the layout.

Quote: Ahigh

Nice insult. When in Rome...

FWIW sodawater (and moderators), I take offense to your comment.

For what purpose did you make that comment?

I know several women who would question your masculinity in a vulgar way (which I'm sure you would find 'offensive') after reading your reply.

Get a thicker skin.

How do you run your own forum while being this thin-skinned?

From reading a lot of Ahigh's comments, I feel like he's definitely on the fence when it comes to dice control. In fact, I am pretty sure that his activity of building a machine to throw dice consistently and him avoiding the pyramids at the back (a large randomizing factor) shows that he believes that he may have the gift, or at least he's trying.

Thus his comment on concentration.

A 30-35 roll turn is excellent, by the way. If you can go 30 rolls consistently without 7ing out, then you're going to make a huge amount of money, every time, provided you bet correctly. (bet big!)

Quote: SACR

I know several women who would question your masculinity in a vulgar way (which I'm sure you would find 'offensive') after reading your reply.

Get a thicker skin.

How do you run your own forum while being this thin-skinned?

One other reasons I run my own forum is because of the insults on this one. It's very easy to run my own forum because I get the respect that I deserve or else I lay down my own rules.

Frankly a lot of the insulting comments that I get are distracting and not very useful at all.

Quote: boymimbo

From reading a lot of Ahigh's comments, I feel like he's definitely on the fence when it comes to dice control. In fact, I am pretty sure that his activity of building a machine to throw dice consistently and him avoiding the pyramids at the back (a large randomizing factor) shows that he believes that he may have the gift, or at least he's trying.

Thus his comment on concentration.

A 30-35 roll turn is excellent, by the way. If you can go 30 rolls consistently without 7ing out, then you're going to make a huge amount of money, every time, provided you bet correctly. (bet big!)

Credibility is a major factor for me in all of my pursuits. So hopefully you can believe when I tell you I have rolled over 60 with no seven at all on more than one occasion.

And yes having the video evidence is a major part of what I think is necessary to have the credibility that I wish to have.

Some people will say that the rolls on video and at home are not as important as real rolls winning money in the real casino.

But in the casino every day people get simply lucky and win lots of money without having any control of the dice.

Given that it is my pursuit to demonstrate that it is possible to control the dice having the video evidence of exactly how I accomplish that is critical.

I have been programming video games for over 25 years now so my primary objective is the entertainment factor of the game and how the game works itself. In other words I am a true gamer.

Since declaring that I blew out my bankroll I was down to my last $100 a climbed back to $1000 on my bankroll.

But at the same time I climbed back $900 playing craps I also profited five figures in addition to my normal regular salary from trading options and stocks.

Building a scenario of financial soundness from the results of play on the craps table is absolutely not an objective for me.

I actually enjoy the challenge of accomplishing what many claim they have already done in spite of the evidence to the contrary that they have not.

I think that even the most ardent supporters of the idea that you can control the dice would agree that there are people who also claim to be able to control the dice simply cannot do what they claim to do.

It is my personal opinion that most people who claim to be able to control the dice fall in this category.

Almost as difficult as being able to accomplish the goal of controlling the dice is separating yourself from this large vast majority of people in this category.

The insults and the association with the people in this category is quite frustrating.

And that is one of the major reasons why I refuse to post on this forum for over a year.

During that year I did not really associate with anyone at all I just did my thing.

And I may find that if I continue to get insulted I will do that again.

My objective is not to seek out attention for what I'm doing I have a true passion of interest in accomplishing my goal.

I am very financially successful and I do not need to accomplish this goal for financial success.

Having said all that I really enjoyed meeting TeddyS and Mike and a lot of the other people that I've had the pleasure of meeting the casino and I hope I can find some other friends that are open to the idea and were at least interested in what I'm doing so I can keep making the most out of this experience and sharing it with other people.

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I'll come to AHigh's defense here, though I have no interest in getting into a shouting match with anyone.

Having played with AHigh on multiple occasions now, he probably understands the game better than anybody, up to and perhaps even including the Wizard and Wong. He knows the house edge of every bet, on both a per roll and on a bet resolved basis. He knows the payout keys for every bet including the weird lays and buys. He knows whether a bet should be paid as a straight stack or heel stack. You'd be hard pressed to find someone more enthusiastic or knowledgeable about the game of craps. I think he's played at every live craps table in Vegas at least once, to say nothing of his layout at home. He has graphs of different variance curves for various betting strategies.

So, he knows the math cold. My take is that he is looking for something beyond the math that explains why some people shoot better than others. Color me skeptical on that front, but until something is proven one way or the other I'm open to all hypotheses. He's certainly opened my eyes to different aspects of the game. Previously, I just followed the Wizard's advice of pass line/come bet/max odds, which wasn't working for me (losing a lot) and not having any fun (worse), so I'm trying new methods.

He's also not as combative in person as he is on the Internet (like most people).

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Quote: teddys

Previously, I just followed the Wizard's advice of pass line/come bet/max odds, which wasn't working for me (losing a lot) and not having any fun (worse), so I'm trying new methods.

Losing too much was causing you to not have any fun playing craps...

Try this new method ...
The Wizard
"Optimal strategy in craps is pretty simple.
Bet the don't pass and/or don't come and back it up laying the maximum odds.
That is known as "playing the dark side," because the vast majority of players bet the opposite way.

If you don't want to be a contrarian, and enjoy going with the flow, then the pass and/or come bets, plus taking full odds, is almost as good."

So you have been playing the "almost as good" method.
Someone has to be under the left side of the curve.
Better you and others than me.

Notice the Wizard mentions nothing at all about having fun while playing craps.

Quote: sodawater

So you expect not to be ridiculed when you post on a forum founded by a mathematician that you did better at dice because you concentrated harder?

The founder of this forum also participated in two independent dice influencing trials, with the results of both going decidedly in favor of the dice influencers.

For those forum members who regularly ridicule and insult others, it might be personally beneficial to step back and take a few moments to consider why one feels the need to do so.

Quote: sodawater

Isn't that sort of attention what you secretly wanted to begin with?

This comment sounds a little deranged.

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Quote: tupp

The founder of this forum also participated in two independent dice influencing trials, with the results of both going decidedly in favor of the dice influencers.

You sure bring that one up a lot.
"decidedly" is YOUR opinion

They did absolutely nothing that any random dice rollers do all the time

Study the 35,097 actual casino dice rolls from the Zumma Craps System tester
and you will see groups of random shooters doing even better than the two groups you pointed out.

Oh, you do not have those dice rolls and would even say they were just made up.
Yeah!

Quote: tupp

For those forum members who regularly ridicule and insult others,
it might be personally beneficial to step back and take a few moments to consider why one feels the need to do so.

Maybe...
Step back.
Look around
It is entertainment... in other words

FUN

Dice control = The "flow of the cards" in blackjack.

Both are nonsense.

Quote: SACR

I know several women who would question your masculinity in a vulgar way (which I'm sure you would find 'offensive') after reading your reply.

That's a real funny joke.

Quote: SACR

Get a thicker skin. How do you run your own forum while being this thin-skinned?

Is this another joke?

Ahigh's sedate response to the multitude of insulting personal attacks has been regal. It really is amazing that anyone could hold it together for so long.

There seems to be a group of forum members that descend on his every utterance like a pack of rabid hyenas (I can think of other characterizations, but I am trying to be kind). Most of the insults from this group are trite and tiresome wastes of bandwidth. If I had been subjected to such an incessant onslaught, I probably would have lashed-out maliciously months ago.

Ahigh is probably one of the more well-spoken and insightful members on this forum. Furthermore, he is among the few here who have made the effort to spend their time and resources actually researching and experimenting with gambling.

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Quote: sodawater

I don't think that's what "decidedly" means.

Perhaps it depends on one's perspective. According to the agreed conditions of one the tests, the shooters had to reduce the occurrence of 7s by a margin of 0.766% from the expected 16.66%. However, they more than doubled that margin to 1.866%.

So, if it depends on one's perspective, perhaps the notion that dice influencing is impossible is not so absolute.

Quote:

Even Stanford Wong, the patron saint of legitimized DI, has renounced it as a pipe dream.

That is a very interesting point, in light of the fact that Stanford Wong's performance was significantly worse than the other shooters in the trial.

Quote:

Dice influencing is (mercifully) dead.

Not by a "longshot!"

Besides, what's it to you?

Quote: 7craps

You sure bring that one up a lot.

No need for the personal dig.

Nevertheless, just because I have mentioned it before does not lessen the fact that those recorded trials were valid and sanctioned by the founder of this web site. As you may recall, the results favored the dice influencers.

Quote:

"decidedly" is YOUR opinion

Okay. The assertion to the contrary is YOUR opinion. So, neither is absolute -- please realize that fact.

However, it is interesting that the shooters in one of the trials more than doubled the expected winning margin agreed upon by both sides in the contest.

Quote:

They did absolutely nothing that any random dice rollers do all the time

Likewise, losing rolls should be experienced all the time by dice influencers, as success is based on exceptional performance. Golfers and bowlers have good and bad days, too.

Quote:

Study the 35,097 actual casino dice rolls from the Zumma Craps System tester
and you will see groups of random shooters doing even better than the two groups you pointed out.

Studying those rolls is unnecessary. I have seen random shooters (including me) do much better on real tables.

However, none of those real life rolls nor Zumma tests have any bearing on whether or not the shooters favorably influenced the dice in the trials I linked above.

By the way, my friend teaches a Zumma class. It really keeps her in shape!

Quote:

It is entertainment... in other words FUN

Well, I suppose such shallow, malicious trolling might be entertaining to someone who enjoys watching episodes of "Jersey Shore," or perhaps reruns of the Jerry Springer show and the Morton Downey Jr show.

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I would list Aaron amongst my friends. He is WELL aware of my skepticism about the possibility of 'dice control', and we enjoy agreeing to disagree. As I have offerred to him, and all others who claim they can control the dice, I'll put my money where my mouth is. Make a claim as to what you think you can do, I'll bet you cannot.
Aaron is a big boy. He needs no help in defending himself.

Quote: sodawater

But I think it's also OK for me to express my opinion that believing in magical dice is horsecrap.
After all this is a forum devoted to gambling.

Cool.
What DI believes in magical dice?? Not Ahigh, at least I have not seen that statement from him unless it lives in one of his many DI videos.

Ahigh has stated his beliefs in writing
All quotes from an earlier post

No I don't really claim anything in particular with regards to being able to control the dice.

I do generally do better when I take the time to set the dice at hitting pairs.

Understanding I'm not claiming I can control the dice.

I do strive for dice control,

Whether I can control the dice or not, plenty of people believe that I can, and that's good enough for me.

finally
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/12405-is-each-roll-independent-of-its-previous-roll-s/#post204977
The outcome of the dice are dependent on the shooter's thoughts

It is a free country, on paper
whatever makes one have more FUN

magical dice

I was scared the president wouldn't be reelected so I concentrated really hard. You're welcome Obama.

I just wanted to say quickly thanks to everybody for saying what they have said and especially to those who have quoted things that I have already said to help illustrate my position.

It really helps me do the other things I am doing when I don't have to go over and over the same things.

It is true I am a big boy and don't need anybody to defend me, but I absolutely appreciate those who have my back, here.

Quote: RogerKint

I was scared the president wouldn't be reelected so I concentrated really hard. You're welcome Obama.

Next time you're in town, play the dark side on my roll; I will work odds on the come out so we can keep it in the family. I will wait for, and mirror your bets with a maximum exposure of $300 on the felt at any given time until one of us cries uncle.

Quote: Ahigh

Next time you're in town, play the dark side on my roll; I will work odds on the come out so we can keep it in the family. I will wait for, and mirror your bets with a maximum exposure of $300 on the felt at any given time until one of us cries uncle.

Uncle

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Bit of observer perspective.
If you said anything along the lines of "they benefited from my betting system", you'd be ridiculed for a while and then ignored.
soda's comment was nothing more than a bit of light sarcasm that I would hardly find objectionable even if it was uncalled for - e.g. if I said "I've run the numbers" and someone replied "yes i bet chasing them must've been pretty hard".

That your position is given this much respect already shows some benefit of doubt in your favor; not giving more is quite appropriate, given the tentative status of any statistical effect of dice control, and some sarcasm was well prompted by the confidence in your statement.

I haven't read through this whole thread...BUT...
I have played dice with Aaron at Silverton and,
FWIW, I have no idea why everyone on here is always jumping in his threads, trying to piss in his cheerios...
Christcakes...Id be willing to bet that 99% of the people on this forum have never even played craps in Las Vegas, and probably 99.999% haven't played craps WITH Aaron, so you cannot comment on what he can and cannot do at the dice.
From my view, I can't wait to play with Aaron again...I guess were just a couple "lucky" craps players, right? ;) lol

Quote: TIMSPEED

Id be willing to bet that 99% of the people on this forum have never even played craps in Las Vegas, and probably 99.999% haven't played craps WITH Aaron

This just reminds me: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/12437-the-poll-the-bet-keyser-or-mission146/ ...the right forum to casually make such remarks!

I'd like to take you up on your offer - lets make it $25 even each claim, or name your number.

Quote: P90

This just reminds me: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/12437-the-poll-the-bet-keyser-or-mission146/ ...the right forum to casually make such remarks!

I'd like to take you up on your offer - lets make it $25 even each claim, or name your number.

I have $25 that says more than 1% of the forum members have played craps in Vegas as well :) I only need to find 32 to have 1% of the active members....

I have played craps in Vegas, and thanks to locals teddys and superrick, I can now say I have played at Main Street Station, Boulder Station, and Green Valley Ranch. I also walked into, but did not play, at Sunset Station and Sam's Town.
I would have really like to play with Aaron, but it did not work out this time. Perhaps another time.

I should add, I have been to Vegas 14 times now, and this was by far the most fun I have had at craps, and I got the shit kicked out of me at the game.
I had a good roll myself, out of the gate, and I was on the table for a great roll New Year's day morning, but all the other sessions were pretty much lose, lose, and lose more.
Having a couple of locals show you around to the local casinos, priceless.

where is this bet going? a poll thread could work

Quote: Ahigh

Quote: SACR

I know several women who would question your masculinity in a vulgar way (which I'm sure you would find 'offensive') after reading your reply.

Get a thicker skin.

How do you run your own forum while being this thin-skinned?

One other reasons I run my own forum is because of the insults on this one. It's very easy to run my own forum because I get the respect that I deserve or else I lay down my own rules.

Frankly a lot of the insulting comments that I get are distracting and not very useful at all.

And such a horrific insult it is.

You're posting on a publicly available message board on the internet. Some people are not going to agree with anything you say, whether to be malicious or contrarian or just to troll you; that is the nature of the internet, especially publicly available areas of the internet. If this is how you react when someone razzes you for gambling, it is a good thing you're not a sports fan.

Saying "I want to let the moderators and others know I was offended by that comment" makes you appear thin-skinned. What do you expect the moderators to do, warn someone because you can't take a little sarcasm or teasing?

Constantly talking about a successful trade while playing the market and/or talking about your job comes across as you trying to justify yourself to others on here, that you're seeking the approval of other posters. That makes you appear insecure, which just adds to the impression of you being thin-skinned.

Why are any insults, perceived or real, "distracting" to you? Just ignore them and roll on.

You seem to be very intent on determining of it is truly possible to influence or control dice while playing craps. This is a worthy goal. Concentrate on your goal, stop trying to gain the approval of others on here, and you'll be better off.

Quote: Ahigh

Frankly a lot of the insulting comments that I get are distracting and not very useful at all.

Brother, the guns were locked and loaded when everybody thought you were going to try to sell DI lessons. It looked like it when we saw you had that website.

You've disarmed everybody and are just taking some spitballs instead. I'd consider that successful.