Incredible Roll = $0!

Greetings!

I went on the roll of my life at Wheeling Island Racetrack and Hotel at around 3:00a.m. on Saturday Night (technically Sunday Morning), but I didn't win very much off of it.

Check it out:

Come-Out Set, 5-2

Point Established Set, Hard-Six

I don't think that the set of the dice matters at all or that I can influence the dice, but it's fun to do for appearances sake...lol

Prior to this roll, I had been playing for a few minutes, I was just betting the Minimum of $5.00 on the PL (I usually play the Wrong Way, but felt like switching things up) and putting (or forgetting to put, as happened on two WINNING occasions and one losing) $10.00 Odds behind that...the dealers started reminding me to put it out there!

Anyway, I was having a great time. I'd make a $2.00 Fire Bet and then put out $1.00 on the Field, $1.00 Hard-Ten and $1.00 Hard-Four for the boys, I'd also tipped them $5.00 straight up after I had bought in for 20 Red Chips and was tipping them $5.00 straight off of every other winning Odds Bet. I don't believe I won them a single Field/Hardway bet, but they ended up making $30 off of my made points w/Odds and the $5.00 I gave them right off the top for $35.00 total.

I ended up establishing a point of 5 and went on a crazy streak rolling sixes and eights before I finally made my point. That was sixteen rolls total and I had a Fire Bet working at the time. I then established a point of Nine and made that point after four more rolls, then I established a point of eight and made it two rolls later, but then...

I established another point of 5 and immediately went back to my Hard-Six dice set...because it makes me look cool!

After I had established the previous point of 5, two gentlemen had started watching the Table and remarking about how many sixes/eights that I had been hitting, as well as some other numbers. The larger of the two gentlemen asked one of the Dealers:

Big Guy: How is this shooter?

Dealer: He's treating us very well, but my God, if I was on the other side of this table, he just rolled me a vacation. I told him he should make Place Bets the way he is firing them off, but he said he doesn't make Place Bets.

Big Guy: Let me Place $12 on the Six and another $12 on the Eight.

I had established that point of 5 and went to work trying to make it. I then proceeded to go Twenty-Three consecutive rolls without a 5 or a Seven-Out, during this span I rolled Snake-Eyes once, rolled Three on two occasions, one Yo', and a Midnight...the rest of the eighteen numbers were all Point Numbers. Among these eighteen numbers were four sixes and three eights. The guy who had made his Place Bets had kept Pressing them completely, not even taking so much as a White off the Table. In fact, he kept adding a little bit to his Place Bets to make them a multiple of Six. I would have also hit a Four Point Fire Bet if my roll had started with the Six that followed the actual Come-Out.

Place 6: $12 + $14 = $26 (Adds $4.00) = $30.00 + $35 = $65.00 (Adds $1) = $66 + $77 = $143 (Adds $1) = $144 + $168 = $312

Place 8: Place 6: $12 + $14 = $26 (Adds $4.00) = $30.00 + $35 = $65.00 (Adds $1) = $66 + $77 = $143 (Adds $1) = $144

Dealer: My God! I don't play unless I'm playing Green, and shooter, I'd have retired by now thanks to you.

Me: Thanks, I just hope I make this 5 so you guys get another $5.00.

Big Guy: What a streak!

Me: Yeah, but do you want to pick some of that up? I can't believe I've gone twenty-three rolls without a Seven or a Five, I'm bound to roll a Seven eventually!

Little Guy w/ Big Guy but not betting: Damnit! You're never supposed to say that number!

Dealer: (Looking at me) Some people are superstitious and they don't like you saying that number during a hand.

Me: (Grinning) What? Twenty-Three, what's wrong with Twenty-Three?

Dealer and Little Guy: Not that number!

Me: (Still Grinning) Five? But, I want a Five!

Dealer: (Getting the joke) Oh, for God's sake!

Big Guy: (In a serious tone) No, I'm not pulling anything yet. This doesn't even compare to how much I've lost today, and besides, this shooter's unstoppable!

Me: Let's hope so...

My very next roll saw one of the dice going straight into the chip tray on the opposite end of the table (stuck the landing!) and then the other die flew completely over the Table without even so much as touching any part of it!

Me: Same dice, I'll get them!

Dealer: I've never seen anyone put one in the chip tray AND one off the table in the same roll.

Me: Mad skills.

Hard-Ten.

SEVEN-OUT

The Big Guy bet the Dark Side and was the one to shoot next, I stuck with the Pass Line and he rolled a Seven immediately and declared, "I'm done."

I then established and Seven-Outted on two consecutive points w/Odds and declared that I was done as I was -$25.

Anyway, twenty-four consecutive rolls without a five/seven = 26/36 ^ 24 = 0.00040560222888205076 or 1/0.00040560222888205076 = 1 in 2,465.47

What an incredible roll!

I also ended up being at the table for almost exactly one hour and only lost $25.00 while managing to tip the boys $35.00!!!

________________________________________________

I then went to play Roulette with $20.00 after asking Joel to lower the Table Min. to $5.00 instead of Ten. I put $1.00 on Black-29 and $1.00 Painting each of the corners around Black-29. The first spin came Red-30, so I ended up with $18 - $3 = $15 ---+$13 on that. There was a young guy playing at this time who must not have liked me very much but didn't say anything, after glaring at me for a few seconds, he put $105 on Red and $5.00 on Eight different individual numbers...all Red. I made my same bet.

Black-31

Me: Okay, got a little piece of that. (I then remembered how he bet as I watched the Croupier scooping every single bet he made off the table) oh, shit, sorry about that.

He left the Table. The Croupier then put it in 36 twice and a row (which was three/five times) so I decided I would make my Black-29 Straight + Corners Bet as well as a straight individual number bet on 36 and whatever else the Croupier would spin most recently. I know it makes no difference mathematically, but you have to bet on something, so why not?

When it was all said and done, I ended up losing the $20.00, but it took me an hour to do it! I was toking the Croupier $10.00 for every winning individual bet, $1.00 per corner that he hit, and I told him I would tip him $20.00 if he put it in Black-29, but that never happened.

Either way, I kept my bet out on 36 and he hit that two more times. He then proceeded to have back-to-back Sevens at one point and then back-to-back Thirteens at one other point. Between those hits and my corners he ended up making $49, so that was cool.

Classy guy, too, he actually said to me after the third Individual Number hit that I had money on, (the Seven)

Croupier: You really don't have to give me any more. You've been more than generous, you tip better than the high-rollers.

Me: I'm playing for you, brother, not me. I'm going to Press it to $2 in and around Black-29 if you'll just put it in there for me. If it hits again after that, then I'll be done.

Croupier: You come play with me anytime! Let me switch balls and see if I can put it in Black-29 for you!

He couldn't, oh well.

I then proceeded to lose $20.00 on bullshit FireBall Keno betting $0.50/Card in which I NEVER had any Bonus Games and I NEVER ONCE had a profitable card...lol

I'm down $65 total, but then I saw one of those Bonus Time machines (discussed in another thread) between 8:00-9:00. I lost about $12.00 getting to the Bonus Game, but then went straight to Jukebox Jackpot and hit the Major Jackpot for $28.xx, so plus $16.

I'm down $49 total, and I came across a Quick Hits where the Progressives were:

5 Quick Hits: $27.xx
6 Quick Hits: $148.xx
7 Quick Hits: $299.xx

I hit for Bonus Games which resulted in a fair profit, nearly $100, then I hit the Six Quick Hits and then the 5 Quick Hits on the very next spin. (I always do one spin after hitting the Progressive, no idea why!)

I ended up with $272 on my ticket at that point which had me up about $223 total. I ended up playing it down to +$200 total on Video Keno and leaving. Friggin' Video Keno hated me the other night!

I want to reiterate that I was dice-setting just for the sake of appearance. I do not believe that I can influence the dice, and pursuant to WoO, Hard-Six would not even be the best set if dice influencing were possible. Also, my toss is incredibly wild and there is no telling where my dice will end up!

I understand not wanting to make a place bet, but no come bets either?

I was playing last week and a lady was rolling.

I started with a $30 8.
It hit, press to $60
It hit, press to $90
It hit, press to $120
It hit, press to $150
It hit, press to $210
It hit, press to $270
It hit, press to $300
It hit, press to $360
It lost.

That is a total of $1230 of winning bets to win $1435, and a loss of $360 at the end. Total = +$1075. There were other bets in the middle as well, of course.

I guess I probably could make Come Bets, AxiomofChoice, but I don't make those, either. I only make Line Bets and Field Bets, but I didn't even make any Field Bets the other night other than for the boys.

5 Quick Hits: $27.xx
6 Quick Hits: $148.xx
7 Quick Hits: $299.xx

woah! All 3 are almost double the starting amount.

from the other thread, if either the 5QH or 6QH are a little more than double the start point, then it's +EV to play.
so if all 3 are almost double, then it's probably +EV to play?

Quote: Mission146

I guess I probably could make Come Bets, AxiomofChoice, but I don't make those, either. I only make Line Bets and Field Bets, but I didn't even make any Field Bets the other night other than for the boys.

You make Field bets and are a mod?!
blastphemy! you're no deciple of the Wizard!

wait.. you also do Firebets?! burn this green colored name guy at the stake!

Quote: 100xOdds

5 Quick Hits: $27.xx
6 Quick Hits: $148.xx
7 Quick Hits: $299.xx

woah! All 3 are almost double the starting amount.

from the other thread, if either the 5QH or 6QH are a little more than double the start point, then it's +EV to play.
so if all 3 are almost double, then it's probably +EV to play?

+ER by a good measure, actually.

Let's go ahead and ignore the Eight QH and Nine QH because I don't remember what they were (though there were something, of course) and I also don't remember the change specifically on the others, but I know the Six and Seven were above $148.5x and $299.5x respectively:

Five QuickHits: 1/230 or .00434782608

Six QuickHits: 1/1329 or .00075244544

Seven QuickHits 1/9327 or .00010721561

THUS

$12.00 * 1/230 = + 0.052173913043478265 ER

$73.50 * 1/1329 = + 0.05530474040632054 ER

AND

$149 * 1/9327 = + 0.015975125978342445 ER

That would total an additional 0.12345377942814124 or 12.345% in ER.

The Minimum Quick Hits Base Pay setting is 88.05%, so that combination would put you at over 100% ER at any Quick Hits machine on Earth. Again, I put the ones that I play at Wheeling Island on the 92.09% setting, based on my records, but cannot be absolutely sure.

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Mission146

I guess I probably could make Come Bets, AxiomofChoice, but I don't make those, either. I only make Line Bets and Field Bets, but I didn't even make any Field Bets the other night other than for the boys.

You make Field bets and are a mod?!
blastphemy! you're no deciple of the Wizard!

wait.. you also do Firebets?! burn this green colored name guy at the stake!

LMAO!

Could you imagine a Six-Point FireBet hitting and not having anything on that? That'd be terrible. I can't help it, I'm a sucker for Progressives and Jackpots.

Trust me, 100x Odds, my overall slot play is far, far closer to 100% ER (on average) if not a little above 100% ER than my Table Games play will ever be. Except maybe Blackjack, but I don't really like playing Blackjack that much, unless it is a full table, bets are resolved too fast otherwise.

I only play the Field if I've been hitting it pretty well, though that makes no mathematical difference.

Quote: Mission146

I want to reiterate that I was dice-setting just for the sake of appearance. I do not believe that I can influence the dice, and pursuant to WoO, Hard-Six would not even be the best set if dice influencing were possible. Also, my toss is incredibly wild and there is no telling where my dice will end up!

Excellent Roll!!!

Can you fully describe the Dice Set you were using? You mentioned the "Hard 6" Dice Set so I'm assuming the Dice Set on top of both Die was (3/3); what was the Dice Set facing you (Left Die/Right Die)?

Thanks!

CF

Great story- this is my favorite part.....

Quote: Mission146

I established another point of 5 and immediately went back to my Hard-Six dice set...because it makes me look cool!

Quote: CrapsForever

Excellent Roll!!!

Can you fully describe the Dice Set you were using? You mentioned the "Hard 6" Dice Set so I'm assuming the Dice Set on top of both Die was (3/3); what was the Dice Set facing you (Left Die/Right Die)?

Thanks!

CF

I apologize for you thanking me in advance because the answer is, "The Hell if I know," all I did was make sure that the Threes were on top, so it probably varied.

Quote: MakingBook

Great story- this is my favorite part.....

Thanks, MakingBook!

With respect to goofing around and superstitions, I always say, "If it doesn't hurt your odds and you have fun doing it, go for it!"

If I'm on a favorable standalone QuickHits Progressive, or Video Keno, for example, I'll occasionally close my eyes and spend a second reflecting on good hits in the past as I try to achieve a state of oneness with the RNG...

Quote: Mission146

I apologize for you thanking me in advance because the answer is, "The Hell if I know," all I did was make sure that the Threes were on top, so it probably varied.

Thanks for the info. Hope you have a lot more hands/rolls like that in 2013 and beyond...

Quote: CrapsForever

Thanks for the info. Hope you have a lot more hands/rolls like that in 2013 and beyond...

Thanks! I doubt if I will ever see a roll like that again, but it was a blast! I wish that guy would have pulled some of his money off the table, though. People wonder why they lose!!!

Ahhh... The yin and yang of craps. Pressing bets in a sufficiently aggressive manner to maximize profit during the proverbial hot roll. I too chase the grail....

Quote: Mission146

I guess I probably could make Come Bets, AxiomofChoice, but I don't make those, either. I only make Line Bets and Field Bets, but I didn't even make any Field Bets the other night other than for the boys.

I'd suggest replacing the field bets with come bets :) Probably just as much fun and less house edge. Also you get to make some money when you keep hitting the same number over and over again. More importantly, I don't like to have a lot of rolls where nothing is getting resolved, because that's a little boring.

So, along with my pass line bet + odds, I like to either make come bets + odds, or place 6 and 8 and maybe also buy the 4 and 10. If you are going to be betting enough that you would be willing to back the come bets with odds, the come bets are far superior, of course. Sometimes I will do both... make the place / buy bets along with the come bet, and then when a number hits use the winnings from the place or buy to fund the odds for the come bet.

At a $10 table, once I'm willing to back my $10 pass line bet with full odds, another $24 to place the 6 & 8 isn't THAT much more, and it definitely increases the number of resolutions significantly.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I'd suggest replacing the field bets with come bets :) Probably just as much fun and less house edge. Also you get to make some money when you keep hitting the same number over and over again. More importantly, I don't like to have a lot of rolls where nothing is getting resolved, because that's a little boring.

I think you might be overestimating how many Field Bets I actually make. I've not kept records on it, but I would say that I probably have averaged one Field Bet for every 100 rolls, lifetime. I usually only do it if I have been throwing the Hell out of the Field, Three in a Row, Four out of Five, something like that...and then usually I'll only continue making them if they win.

I also like having rolls where nothing is resolved. I just like to get to roll the dice, which is why I bet so small and won't put more on DP or PL than the Table Minimum.

I might try some Come Bets one day, though, I don't know.

This is going to sound really strange, but I really don't care if I win money or not when I play Table Games. I mean that I literally don't care at all. I don't believe I've ever Pressed my bets while playing Craps. I just have fun getting to shoot the dice or watching the ball go round and round and BSing with the dealers. I also like to treat the dealers well, especially at Wheeling Island, because they're all incredibly friendly and I never really see the other players tipping them very much there. I just make my minimum bets with 2x odds and then win in multiples of $50. I'll usually lose in multiples of $50, as well, but stopped at $25 on this occasion because I was in the mood to play Roulette instead.

Well, then, whatever works for you. I will not lie -- I always want to win money :) Of course I will lose in the long term, but for me, the ability to parlay a relatively small bet into a big payout is what makes craps so much fun.

Roulette is a game that I can't play. Too slow with nothing happening. I find it boring.

You ain't there to look cool or feel cool, you ain't there to win money for the dealers (although no dealer wants to admit this)... you are there to take the house for everything you and Lady Variance can take it for.

A Come Bet is a virtual Pass Line Bet... exact same rules. The ONLY difference is that a Pass Line bet has a big black Hockey Puck as a reminder and a Come Bet has your stack of chips positioned as a reminder. That is ALL. NO other difference. NONE.

A Place Bet is a Come Bet wherein you have chosen the result and the house nicks you if they have to pay off that bet. That is the cost to you of making a choice yourself rather than letting the dice make the choice.

This story evokes memories of me long long ago and a dealer's statement to the Boxman as I finished a very lengthy roll over my five dollar passline bet: "He could have really hurt us if he had known what he was doing". When I heard that statement, I decided a craps lesson was in order.

Quote: Mission146

I only make Line Bets and Field Bets

Quote: FleaStiff

A Come Bet is a virtual Pass Line Bet... exact same rules.

Yep, everybody is going to clobber you for not making the Come bets. That's when you realize it is possible to roll 'around' more than one number that isn't yours during a monster roll [g].

The funny thing is that there is no mathematical defense for insisting the Come bets would be essential. Then again, the Wizard himself has said that making multiple Come bets is anti-hedging, or something to that effect ... unclear if it was tongue-in-cheek. I could find that post.

In any case, I'll bet Franklins to Frankfurters you will start making Come bets if you stay with Craps. It's not something the mathematically inclined can find fault with, assuming the Line HE is acceptable to start with.

Quote: FleaStiff

You ain't there to look cool or feel cool, you ain't there to win money for the dealers (although no dealer wants to admit this)... you are there to take the house for everything you and Lady Variance can take it for.

A Come Bet is a virtual Pass Line Bet... exact same rules. The ONLY difference is that a Pass Line bet has a big black Hockey Puck as a reminder and a Come Bet has your stack of chips positioned as a reminder. That is ALL. NO other difference. NONE.

I know what a Come Bet is....lol! I'm just there to have fun, which is what I do when I look cool, feel cool, and win money for the dealers! In both cases, I tipped them more than I actually ended up losing, and thus, would have had a profit in both cases. I don't care, though, I only play the Tables to have fun.

Quote:

A Place Bet is a Come Bet wherein you have chosen the result and the house nicks you if they have to pay off that bet. That is the cost to you of making a choice yourself rather than letting the dice make the choice.

Unfortunately, they can't pay the true Odds on a Place bet, otherwise there'd be no reason to even make Line bets if you didn't have to, so that's where that nick comes in.

Quote:

This story evokes memories of me long long ago and a dealer's statement to the Boxman as I finished a very lengthy roll over my five dollar passline bet: "He could have really hurt us if he had known what he was doing". When I heard that statement, I decided a craps lesson was in order.

I appreciate the advice, but like I said, I'm really not trying to win when it comes to Craps.

Let's say I was going to make Come Bets, should they exceed the amount of the Pass Line bet at first? I'm just thinking that you could get wiped out pretty quickly on those, we're talking over $50 in a roll, here. I'd have to say that if I lost $50 in one roll, I'd be pretty furious and would probably leave.

Quote: odiousgambit

Yep, everybody is going to clobber you for not making the Come bets. That's when you realize it is possible to roll 'around' more than one number that isn't yours during a monster roll [g].

The funny thing is that there is no mathematical defense for insisting the Come bets would be essential. Then again, the Wizard himself has said that making multiple Come bets is anti-hedging, or something to that effect ... unclear if it was tongue-in-cheek. I could find that post.

In any case, I'll bet Franklins to Frankfurters you will start making Come bets if you stay with Craps. It's not something the mathematically inclined can find fault with, assuming the Line HE is acceptable to start with.

I'm probably not going to, "Stay wiuth Craps." I only play Craps when the mood strikes me, and the Table is almost never open during the times that I am usually there, (in the early a.m. Mon-Thur) so I don't really play all that much. I would say that even on the occasions that I consider playing and the Table is open, I usually find an advantageous QuickHits machine (or get more in the mood for disadvantageous Video Keno) and do that instead. In fact, the only reason that I ended up over there was because the Quick Hits machine that I ended up later playing was occupied.

There are also occasionally some +ER Keno Progressives there, at times, and I'm going to be doing the Math in the near future on one or two of those games to figure out an advantage-point there.

The very first time I played craps I put $5 on the passline -- and nothing else. About 15 minutes later when everybody was whooping it up and I had a $25 profit but others at the table had made hundreds, I asked "why are they making so much money?" And that's when I realized what place bets were all about.

Today, after losing perhaps the equivalent of a house making place bets for about twenty years, I think Im gong to go back to the way I started... with a passline bet. And adding the fire bet just in case I or another shooter gets lucky.

Well let me tell you the story of a loser....

On New Years Eve, I played $5 craps, 10x odds, 2 come bets with 10x odds, $5 Fire bet, and $5 hardways. I parlay the first hardway hit.

Never hit a fire bet, never hit a parlayed hardway, never was ahead. Lost $2,400. No tips.

It happens, I imagine you would have tipped very well had you won.

Quote: Headlock

Well let me tell you the story of a loser....
On New Years Eve, I played $5 craps, 10x odds, 2 come bets with 10x odds, $5 Fire bet, and $5 hardways. I parlay the first hardway hit.
Never hit a fire bet, never hit a parlayed hardway, never was ahead. Lost $2,400. No tips.

Damn man, I think I know you! lol...
This pretty much happened everywhere NYE, I'm sure....
Except at JANugget on 1/1/13 (in the evening), ALL the high rollers happened to be at the crap table, and my GOD was is beautiful...
NO ONE bought in/out, NO one bet the come or field. The dice were landing in the SAME SPOT every time, no hitting ANY chips or hands...
Just rained down from Heaven...box numbers, hard ways, points...When the smoke cleared, there had to of been $50k on the felt...something the table at JANugget (usually a $2 game) never sees!

Played 1/1 starting around 7:00 AM, figuring the drunks would be done, and they were.
Around 9:00 AM got on a table with a guy from Canada and one other player. The Canadian and I were talking about power pressing and decided to give it a shot.
We both were betting $130/$135 across.
The 6/8 progression went 30,60,90,120,180,300,600,900.
The 5/9 progression went 25,50,100,150,300,450,600,900.
The 4/10 progression went 25,50,100,200,400,800,1600,3200.

On one 12 minute roll (I was checking the time at the start of every roll), we managed to get the 6 to $900, the 9 to $450, and the 10 was $400.
I don't recall the 4, 5, and 8. One of them was the point.
Made about the same amount as I lost on the table at the 7 out. :-(

Too bad that was the last positive craps thing for the next 36 hours.

I really wish I had talked him into playing a new schedule I had worked out
6/8 - 60,120,240,480,900,900. On that 6th hit, take it back to $120 and rerun the sequence.
4/5/9/10 - 50,100,200,400,500,1000. On 6th hit, take it down to $100 and rerun.

If you complete the 6th point, you bank a low of $3030 (6/8), or $3050 (5/9) to a high of $4288 (4/10).

Using this schedule, we would have banked quite a bit more than we did, since we would have pulled down that $900 six, AND the $450 nine would have also already be pulled down too. Next time......

I will be blogging about it soon, but I also had a 25 minute roll as my very first roll in Vegas. Too bad the first 4 of the first 5 shooters all failed to make a point, so instead of being aggressive, I started out my roll passively. The schedule above would have netted me a huge win.

Of course, playing that aggressive would have also led to higher losses later on, so net result would probably be the same......................
It's just more fun to look at what could have been on the winners! LOL

Quote: Headlock

Well let me tell you the story of a loser....

On New Years Eve, I played $5 craps, 10x odds, 2 come bets with 10x odds, $5 Fire bet, and $5 hardways. I parlay the first hardway hit.

Never hit a fire bet, never hit a parlayed hardway, never was ahead. Lost $2,400. No tips.

Headlock! Only I can have that kind of a session! Stop encroaching on my territory! ;)