Which LV casinos have automatic shufflers in their high-limit rooms?

I like to play by myself whenever possible, which usually means $50 or $100 tables, depending on how busy things are. However, I prefer automatic shufflers. Are there any casinos, other than Treasure Island, that have automatic shufflers in their high-limit rooms? Thanks!

I get confused between automatic shufflers and these devices that are continuous shufflers that feed the "discards" back into the deck all the time.

If you play by yourself, you must always be playing at a rate that is higher than the rate at which you are being comped. Does this make a difference to you? Even in a high limit room there must surely be a difference between an assumed five person table and a one person table's actual rate of play.

Some people actually prefer the continuous shuffle machines.

Most "blackjack enthusiasts" poo-poo them, however, which is why you almost never see them in high-limit rooms. I do remember seeing them in TI, but nowhere else.

I'm talking about the automatic shufflers, the machines that shuffle 6 decks while the other 6 decks are being played. I'm not concerned about the comp aspect. I know this is unscientific, but the only time I ever have good luck is playing 2 hands (by myself) against the dealer. It really aggravates me when people playing with me make stupid plays and play inconsistently. I know the Wizard would say that they are likely to help you as much as they hurt you, but when you're high up in a betting progression and somebody makes a stupid move that directly costs you hundreds of dollars, it sucks. When their next stupid move is the one that helps you and you're at the table minimum, it's little consolation.

But speaking of the comps, I'm a novice when it comes to them, but I'm pretty happy with what I've gotten based on my play on my last trip. I spent a ton of time in the TI high limit room by myself and got a few buffets and an upgrade to a suite my last night. And when I called to book my next trip, they comped the same type of suite without any hesitation. Any thoughts on comps or working the system are appreciated, though! (I'm guessing there's probably an entirely different forum I can check out regarding this. Feel free to send a private message, though, if you'd like!) Thanks.

Quote: eda21

But speaking of the comps, I'm a novice when it comes to them, but I'm pretty happy with what I've gotten based on my play on my last trip. I spent a ton of time in the TI high limit room by myself and got a few buffets and an upgrade to a suite my last night. And when I called to book my next trip, they comped the same type of suite without any hesitation. Any thoughts on comps or working the system are appreciated, though! (I'm guessing there's probably an entirely different forum I can check out regarding this. Feel free to send a private message, though, if you'd like!) Thanks.

I think if you play at TI at 2 x $50 or 2 x $100 you should be RFB at least. Ask to see a host, and charge everything to your room. TI does not have many table game players right now so I think they would be more generous. They are privately owned now, and don't have to answer to shareholders, so again, they might be more palmy. Ask about limo transportation too and from the airport as well. Do you have a credit line with them?

Quote: teddys

Some people actually prefer the continuous shuffle machines.

Most "blackjack enthusiasts" poo-poo them, however, which is why you almost never see them in high-limit rooms. I do remember seeing them in TI, but nowhere else.

For hit and run play, I actually like the continuous shufflers. It's easy to get up after winning a few hands and moving on. In a shoe game, as a courtesy to other players, I either want to play the entire shoe, or wait until the end of one to hop in. I know this is silly from a number standpoint, but I still like to be courteous to other players. And as far as high-limit rooms, I never recall seeing any installed in one. I can't think of a casino that exclusively has continuous shufflers, but that would be the only way I could see high-limit having one.

Quote: eda21

I'm talking about the automatic shufflers, the machines that shuffle 6 decks while the other 6 decks are being played. I'm not concerned about the comp aspect. I know this is unscientific, but the only time I ever have good luck is playing 2 hands (by myself) against the dealer. It really aggravates me when people playing with me make stupid plays and play inconsistently. I know the Wizard would say that they are likely to help you as much as they hurt you, but when you're high up in a betting progression and somebody makes a stupid move that directly costs you hundreds of dollars, it sucks. When their next stupid move is the one that helps you and you're at the table minimum, it's little consolation.

I'd be surprised if you find any Vegas casino with them though. It's a luxury and most high-limit players play in the rooms to have the hand shuffle. I totally get what you're saying about other players making mistakes too. I know, logically, it doesn't make a difference, but if I feel better about the play, I feel better about how things go. The whole point of gambling is to have fun, and if I'm too worried about another person's play, then I'm not having fun.

At TI, any high limit room play should be getting you RFB status, but don't start doing things just to get comped that can be unwise.

The main casino comp rate is based on there being five players at the table. If there is only one or two players the house edge will be exerting itself against your bank roll at a higher rate than the comp rate is rewarding you. If on the other hand you play at a very crowded table with lots of people who make side bets or ask questions then the rate of play is less but you are still comped as if there were five people at the table.

Now if you really prefer to be alone and not distracted by either what the others do or might do, then that has a very slight effect on the comps you get, whether you are in the main casino or the high limit room.

Frankly, the main thing is to have fun and get a good run for your money. For you, its obvious that fun means a lack of people who split tens or something. So its more important for you to be in a high limit room. (Although I've seen 300.00 games in the main casino and its obvious that guy is playing alone).

Quote: Tiltpoul

In a shoe game, as a courtesy to other players, I either want to play the entire shoe, or wait until the end of one to hop in.

Waiting for a new shoe is not only courteous, but it reduces the likelihood that you'll be thought of as a counter.

Personally, I like the 8 deck hand shuffle. It gives me a chance to run to the mens room and be back without missing a hand, or simply a chance to get up and stretch.

Quote: FleaStiff

Frankly, the main thing is to have fun and get a good run for your money. For you, its obvious that fun means a lack of people who split tens or something. So its more important for you to be in a high limit room. (Although I've seen 300.00 games in the main casino and its obvious that guy is playing alone).

That actually reminded me of something you could do to get a table to yourself with an automated shuffler if there are none in the high-limit room: Request the table min be raised. I used to do that all the time in Tunica on DD BJ, usually going from $10 to $25, so it wouldn't tempt some bystander to sit down. I think I have a presence that attracts other players, something I don't understand. A table could be dead for two hours, I'll sit down to play (alone, b/c I like games with few people), and not thirty seconds later the table fills up. Doesn't matter where I'm at, how busy or dead it is in general, I always seem to attract the followers.

Anyways, request a table min to be raised to $50 or $100 min. That's generally a good indication to other players who might be in that level of play not to sit down. In Tunica, they would even allow the requested raiser to grandfather in anybody who wanted to play at the lower level, provided they were already on the table. One time, a guy with his wife/gf/mistress sat down at my table ($5 min). He played fairly well, she wasn't as good, but listened to his advice. After a bit, we had a nice run going. Someone sat down for a few hands, got up and left, and it didn't feel the same until the next shoe. He requested the table to be $50, which he had to maintain, but told the supervisor he wanted me to be at $5. They obliged, and we played for quite some time, enjoying each others company, and doing pretty well to boot.

You might have some luck with that at the low-to-mid-level properties (i.e. Luxor, Bally's, MGM even), but don't expect that same service at the higher end properties. Of course, it never hurts to ask.

Quote: Tiltpoul

I think I have a presence that attracts other players, something I don't understand. A table could be dead for two hours, I'll sit down to play (alone, b/c I like games with few people), and not thirty seconds later the table fills up.

It's not you per se, it's anyone. Most people do not like to sit at an inactive table. After all, if all the other people left, that table must be a loser, etc.

Once there's at least one butt in a chair, the other chairs get butts too.

This phenomenon is even more obvious at a craps table. Two tables. One jammed, the other empty. Until someone breaks the ice. Not 5 minutes later, the tables will be nearly balanced.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

It's not you per se, it's anyone. Most people do not like to sit at an inactive table. After all, if all the other people left, that table must be a loser, etc.

Once there's at least one butt in a chair, the other chairs get butts too.

This phenomenon is even more obvious at a craps table. Two tables. One jammed, the other empty. Until someone breaks the ice. Not 5 minutes later, the tables will be nearly balanced.

Agreed... except for one thing. I can sit an empty table next to two tables that each have one player. The other two tables will stay one player each, but my table will fill up. This isn't a hard and fast rule, but I seem to attract players, especially Asians.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm just the opposite. I like to play as much as possible and hate waiting for hand shuffling. Not sure what the percentage is on how many more hands you can play with an auto shuffler, but it seems significant to me. However, I'm lucky to get to LV once or twice a year for 3 days at a time, so that's why I'm so impatient. As far as the restroom breaks go, if there is a "no mid-shoe entry" rule, I wait until I start a shoe by myself, then go when I need to. It's also a good strategy for when I have a table to myself, am on a run and somebody sits down waiting to jump in on the next shoe. If there are clearly other tables where they can play, leaving for a leisurely restroom break can sometimes encourage them to go elsewhere.

That's a great suggestion and I've actually done that before. There are only two minor drawbacks, though. First, you're then playing at a table where the dealer hits soft 17's and increases the house edge, albeit not by a lot. (oddly though, I found a $25 table on the main floor at the Monte Carlo last month where the dealer stands on S17. The other drawback is that if I ask for a table on the main floor to be increased to say $50, they often adhere to the rule where I have to double the table minimum to play 2 hands. So, if my comfort level is 2 x $50, the table minimum is $25 and usually not enough to keep people from jumping in. Even if I'm brave enough to play 2 x $100, a $50 table minimum on the open floor doesn't always prevent crashers. But having said that, I noticed on my trip last month that more and more places (Venetian/Palazzo, Wynn/Encore, Cosmopolitan) are allowing 2, and sometimes even 3, hands at the table minimum. Venetian/Palazzo and Cosmo did it no questions asked. Wynn/Encore only allowed it as long as I was alone at the table. As soon as somebody else sat down, they said I'd have to double the minimum on each hand.

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Gee, thanks. I love being told that what I have to say is "absolute BS." I'm just that stupid, I guess.

Phrased another way, yes, given a large enough statistical sample, somebody else's erratic play is just as likely to help you as hurt you. But I've been at a table with somebody playing erratically for a short period of time (15-30 minutes) and have definitely come out the worse for it. I agree with you when you say erratic play "might" help me, but so far, it hasn't.

I like knowing that the cards are the only random element when I'm playing.

I did ask about limo transport and TI said that "they don't do that." To answer your question, I do not have a line of credit with them.

Quote: teddys

I think if you play at TI at 2 x $50 or 2 x $100 you should be RFB at least. Ask to see a host, and charge everything to your room. TI does not have many table game players right now so I think they would be more generous. They are privately owned now, and don't have to answer to shareholders, so again, they might be more palmy. Ask about limo transportation too and from the airport as well. Do you have a credit line with them?

I did ask about limo transport and TI said that they "don't do that." I do not have a line of credit with them.

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Quote: eda21

Gee, thanks. I love being told that what I have to say is "absolute BS." I'm just that stupid, I guess.

Phrased another way, yes, given a large enough statistical sample, somebody else's erratic play is just as likely to help you as hurt you. But I've been at a table with somebody playing erratically for a short period of time (15-30 minutes) and have definitely come out the worse for it. I agree with you when you say erratic play "might" help me, but so far, it hasn't.

I like knowing that the cards are the only random element when I'm playing.

No one can predict the next card to be dealt which is why I don't concern myself with the play of others. The only reason I look at the cards on the table is to determine the count. Anyone playing blackjack should learn to accept the poor play of their fellow players.

To answer your question on ASMs, the claim is 20-25% more hands dealt per hour. I believe most of them use 8 decks not 6.