Poll

1 vote (4%)
3 votes (12%)
21 votes (84%)

25 members have voted

Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
Joined: May 5, 2010
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September 15th, 2011 at 8:15:12 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I must question this assumption. As casino games go, blackjack was always a pretty low house edge game. Even people who have never read a basic strategy card often figure out the most basic assumptions: For hard hands - Hit when dealer stiff and player stiff, don't hit when player pat, double on 10's and 11's except against high cards, and double if you would only take one card.



To you, me and everybody on this forum, these are foregone conclusions. But I don't think the average player sees it that way... I should say, the average tourist casino player who only knows Blackjack is a "beatable" game. It's easy for us to say that people always played the game that way before basic strategy, but what seems obvious to us now would not necessarily have been obvious back then.

My grandma loved blackjack... she taught me how to play when I was three years old, and taught me, what I thought at the time, were the correct basic strategy moves. While generally she was right, she was SOO wrong about so many moves, what seemed logical at the time turned out to be incorrect.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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September 15th, 2011 at 9:18:24 PM permalink
Everybody sort of knows Basic Strategy now. But only thanks to Ed Thorpe. John scarne was a reputed expert on gambling but his
strategy for BJ was a mess.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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September 15th, 2011 at 9:21:15 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

It absolutely gives you an edge... it doesn't make the game a player advantage game, but counting cards barely does that. But compared to doing whatever, Basic Strategy does give the player an edge.



Semantics.

Playing pass line with odds gives a better "edge" than betting Big Red.

I was referring to gaining the advantage, or "edge" over the house.

Sure, basic strategy is better than playing blind, but the house still has the edge over the player.
"What, me worry?"
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 15th, 2011 at 9:24:11 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Everybody sort of knows Basic Strategy now. But only thanks to Ed Thorpe.



Thorpe was just in the right place at the right time.
He didn't invent counting, far from it. He was just
one of the few people in the country who had access
to a mainframe computer and was interested in
gambling. All he did was prove counting works with
the computer and he came up with a workable card
counting system. Big deal, it didn't take a genius to
do that. His giant inflated ego forced him to write a
book about it, he was too frightened to make a million
off it first before he opened his big mouth.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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September 16th, 2011 at 1:30:33 AM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

since this strategy is KNOWLEDGE about a game that gives the player an edge ...

Gives the player an edge as compared to the other more ignorant players, but he is not playing against those other players, he is playing against the house and even with absolutely perfect Basic Strategy, he still has no edge against the house.

A player who is a homosexual and therefore immune to the distractions of a beautiful woman in a low cut dress has something in his head that sets him apart from the other men playing Blackjack but he is not cheating the house by sitting there trying to beat the dealer.

A woman who can consume an endless variety of drinks and remain stone cold sober is not cheating just because she plays blackjack in a casino that provides her with free drinks so as to alter her betting habits.
weaselman
weaselman
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
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September 16th, 2011 at 6:45:24 AM permalink
I think, by Dan's logic, playing basic strategy is definitely cheating - the casino, obviously, does not want you to do that, they'd prefer you play badly and lose more, and his definition of "cheating" is doing something the casino does not want you to do. Ergo, basic strategy is cheating. And so is not not betting on sucker side bets.

And yes, you absolutely can be backroomed or backed off for doing this ... or for any other reason (apparently, not in NJ any more, which is nice, but, as Dan put it earlier, Vegas is not NJ).
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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September 16th, 2011 at 7:57:29 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Thorpe was just in the right place at the right time.
He didn't invent counting, far from it. He was just
one of the few people in the country who had access
to a mainframe computer and was interested in
gambling. All he did was prove counting works with
the computer and he came up with a workable card
counting system. Big deal, it didn't take a genius to
do that. His giant inflated ego forced him to write a
book about it, he was too frightened to make a million
off it first before he opened his big mouth.



Is there any particular reason you despise Ed Thorpe ? I did not like his paranoia about being cheated by dealers. But he did write a great book and never proclaimed to be a genius. Give the man his due. His book and explanation of basic strategy turned the tables on casinos. After it came out, many casinos restricted doubling, splitting etc. Only when total revenue including slots tumbled did the casinos back off.
Gee. all Ed did was write a book.
dm
dm
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
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September 16th, 2011 at 8:53:47 AM permalink
Quote: weaselman

I think, by Dan's logic, playing basic strategy is definitely cheating - the casino, obviously, does not want you to do that, they'd prefer you play badly and lose more, and his definition of "cheating" is doing something the casino does not want you to do. Ergo, basic strategy is cheating. And so is not not betting on sucker side bets.

And yes, you absolutely can be backroomed or backed off for doing this ... or for any other reason (apparently, not in NJ any more, which is nice, but, as Dan put it earlier, Vegas is not NJ).




They probably don't care for you to release loud farts, either. So does that make the gas release cheating? Basic strategy does NOT
rely on changing deck composition.
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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September 16th, 2011 at 9:22:57 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

All he did was prove counting works with
the computer and he came up with a workable card
counting system. Big deal, it didn't take a genius to
do that.



90% of genius is doing something no-one else has done, instead of sitting around afterwards going "damn, that was obvious, why didn't I do that!".
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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September 16th, 2011 at 9:35:41 AM permalink
AMEN !!!!

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