thuntetr
thuntetr
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 4
Joined: Dec 3, 2009
December 15th, 2009 at 6:13:28 AM permalink
In the free play game on "The Wizard of Odds" website, playing 6 decks, no surrender, and dealer hits soft 17, the correct play indicated for A8 vs dealer's 5 or 6 is to double. On the strategy tables of the same site, the correct play is shown as "stand".
What is the correct play for A8?
pocketaces
pocketaces
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 158
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
December 15th, 2009 at 6:20:11 AM permalink
As per the Wizard's strategy charts, in a H17 multi-deck game you double if allowed with soft 19 vs a 6 only (not vs 5). The strategy is correct on the website and I believe the Wizard's game plays the same way.

You may have been looking at the S17 chart which is the one displayed on the main page for blackjack. Here is the correct strategy chart displayed alongside the S17 chart for easy comparison.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
January 3rd, 2010 at 2:00:19 AM permalink
Quote: thuntetr

What is the correct play for . . . .


I've played a variety of sites that are for practice or assisted practice. I'm not at all sure the various sites are consistent in their advice. Hitorstand.net is fun but seems to be following a slightly different rule set than the others. Perhaps this is due to a different number of theoretical decks from which the various sites are dealing, I do not know.

If given an opportunity at the various practice sites, I'd generally chose to have the dealer Hit On Soft-17 simply because at my local Indian casino thats pretty much what is going to be happening. I saw one man playing all alone at a 300.00 minimum table and while I did not watch for long, I would be certain that they were not giving a bettor like that a bad set of rules to play against. However at the lower limit tables it seems to always be that the dealer hits on soft 17, so I do try to practice in that fashion.

I've come to the conclusion that in real play my results will often depend upon just how well I do in those first few hands. I recall the dealer actually commenting to me (or perhaps to the floor) when he dealt me my third blackjack after I had just joined the table five hands ago. I think it may have been the fact that I didn't increase my bets when I was doing so well that made the floor walk away in a disinterested fashion. I was doing real well that day with wins on initial blackjacks and on fully dealt hands. One player even turned to me and said "nice call on that xxxx" when I clearly broke with Basic Strategy at one point and won. Yet, I ended up that day with a loss. All my initial good luck evaporated and I had not increased my bets during that lucky period so as I just kept sitting there even at a low limit table my losses mounted.

So at the practice sites, I just play the minimum bet and don't worry if the computer's dealer is going to hit on soft17 or not. Its the real play that counts and thats where I start to think that Basic Strategy should be modified based on my recollection of whats already been dealt or my "feelings" of what that next card will be. Oh, when will I ever learn?
pacomartin
pacomartin
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
January 14th, 2010 at 2:33:31 PM permalink
Just verifying that you are correct. This chart says to double on a 6, but stand on a 5.
==============
This is one of these rules that is very close. If you look at the actual expected values, then you see that a 4 deck game you should double, and in a 6 or 8 deck game you should stand. Because the chart covers 4-8 decks then over the range of decks there is a slight advantage to doubling.
(4 decks) stand=0.451752 double=0.462588 (slightly in favor of doubling)
(5 decks) stand=0.452035 double=0.462290 (slightly in favor of doubling)
(6 decks) stand=0.493924 double=0.480266 (slightly in favor of standing)
(8 decks) stand=0.494445 double=0.480105 (slightly in favor of standing)
==============
All the blackjack tables are somewhat abbreviated so that they are easy to remember. They could all be refined to some degree. It is just that there is such a minor advantage to remembering all of the variations on the very close ones that they are usually glossed over. There would be too many footnotes on the cheat sheets. What the wizard does is add up probabilities for 4,5,6,7,8 decks and over the range you are better off doubling.
==============
For example you should hit a player 12 against a dealer 4 if and only if the player 12 consists of a 10 and a 2. All other combinations should be hit. However, most people don't want to remember compositionally dependent strategy, so overall you should hit a 12 against a dealer 4. Plus the increase in expected value is very small.
===================
The wizard has analyzed his Wizard's Strategy. He says in September 2009 I developed the following "Wizard's Strategy." The cost due to imperfect plays is only 0.14%, relative to liberal Vegas Strip rules. That is the cost of one hand for about every 12 hours of play. Compared to the 250 cells in the Basic Strategy, the Wizard's Strategy has only 21, as follows.
Last edited by: pacomartin on Jan 17, 2010
  • Jump to: