Tripling down at Vegas World

This thread should take some down a memory lane. Bear with me...

Back in the day, Vegas World offered "vacation packages". Among other things, these included "table action chips" which were the core value of the package. These chips were good for one even money play, and were then removed, win or lose. Basically that meant the chips were worth about half their face value.

The challenge was to determine the most profitable way to play out these chips. As Blackjack Forum informed us, the blackjack at Vegas World was "Weird, Not Good!" A main problem was that table action chip bettors were only paid even money on blackjacks, which would give the house about a 3% edge... not good, indeed. But Vegas World was the original home of Double Exposure, and according to Stanford Wong the house edge there was much better. I used to sit at the table with a photocopy of Wong's basic strategy chart... no one seemed to mind. And on Double Exposure, blackjacks paid even money anyway, so table action chips were not being penalized. But it got better...

Back then I met an Asian card counter, who pointed out that table action chips had a big advantage in play over real chips. When doubling down on table action, you were allowed to put up real casino chips to complete the double. This effectively tripled the value of your bet. I figured that should wipe out the house advantage completely, maybe pushing it to the player's side by 1% or more.

This advantage was almost enough to make me consider offering to buy table action from strangers (but not quite). Turned out my favorite play was to "triple down" on a blackjack against a dealer stiff. Wong's basic strategy for Double Exposure did recommend doubling on soft 20 versus dealer 13 thru 16, though not on a blackjack. I thought the extra value of a triple down made it the right play. In any case, it often worked nicely for me, and I enjoyed the ruckus it would cause when the dealer would call out, "Doubling on blackjack!".

Comments? And I'm curious, any other old timers remember doing this kind of thing?

I read about the Vegas World Vacation packages, but never participated. By the time I made my first pilgrimage, the Strat was already open.
I appreciate stories like that. Thanks.

I’m experienced in these actions. There are a few tricks there. Basically, you want to use these chips when you are more likely to lose and when you are more likely to win a higher odds.

Looks similar to Match Plays. I've tried Match Plays on Black Jack (some casinos don't allow them on Spanish 21, some do), and the problem is when it comes to splitting or doubling down at a higher denomination, I may need up to 6-7 more green chips to cover all the possible bets for one hand with one or two $25 MPs. If I don't have 8 green chips lying around in my pocket including the MPs, I'm just way over-betting. I prefer to put the MP on the Pass Line at the Craps table, or on Red or Black on the Roulette table.

Quote OP “Turned out my favorite play was to "triple down" on a blackjack against a dealer stiff.”

I like this part, but I’ve never made this play myself. Firstly, the casino rules have that player is paid with 3:2 immediately upon a player Natural, so no hit card is allowed for player anymore in this situation . Secondly, just assume that player is allowed to triple down and is paid even money after tripling, is it correct to triple upon a dealer upcard of 4, 5, or 6? Can somebody calculate this part?

Quote: aceside

I’m experienced in these actions. There are a few tricks there. Basically, you want to use these chips when you are more likely to lose and when you are more likely to win a higher odds.
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Yes, that would be good if you could get it. But Vegas World always required these chips be used for even money bets only.

Quote: aceside

I like this part, but I’ve never made this play myself. Firstly, the casino rules have that player is paid with 3:2 immediately upon a player Natural, so no hit card is allowed for player anymore in this situation .
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I was making the triple down play only at the Double Exposure game, which paid only even money for a blackjack. Getting 3:2 immediately would likely make the triple down play dubious, even if allowed.

In the blackjack game I play, a player natural pays 3:2 on promotional chips. In this situation, what is the strategy for doubling down with money chips on a player natural? Another thing, if player is allowed to triple down, then player will triple a lot more aggressively, like triple these borderline hands: 9vs2, 9vs7, 9vs8, 8vs6, 8vs5, and 7vs6.

I thought about this part again, so the triple EV is just 1.5 times of the double EV.
The triple EV of a player natural is just 1.5 time of the double EV of a player hard 11vs any dealer upcard. Based on this calculation, player should not triple a natural under any circumstances.

Is this right?

Again, in Double Exposure the natural pays only even money. Trying to improve on that makes sense, especially against a dealer stiff. It's not 9vs2, it would be 9vs12, 13, etc.

Double Exposure probably is a good old days history. I’ve never seen it anywhere. I just looked up Wizard’s EV components and found tripling down will bring up player’s EV by +1.64%. This is significant for regular blackjack games.

Quote: aceside

Double Exposure probably is a good old days history. I’ve never seen it anywhere. I just looked up Wizard’s EV components and found tripling down will bring up player’s EV by +1.64%. This is significant for regular blackjack games.
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The last time I played Double Exposure was well over 10 years ago, at the Tropicana in AC where they had a lot of odd and one-off games for a long time.

Funniest thing though- they had the table right next to a table of Multi-Action Blackjack, which is much like regular blackjack except you are playing multiple hands. And the dealer went from the DE table to the MA table and started dealing the MA game with the dealer's cards face up!

I had a lot of fun that day, until a pit boss came running over waving his arms and screaming!

I had a similar experience in Laughlin, twice in the same weekend. A relief dealer joined a non-standard BJ game and dealt about a half dozen hands before realizing it. It could have been lucrative, but I believe I won two extra hands

Thanks for the replies. Some may be wondering why I'm bringing this up 30 years later.

I wrote an article back then, "A Requiem for Vegas World" just after the place had closed. It was partially published in the Las Vegas Advisor. I happened to find it again on my old computer.

Guess I was hoping Michael Shackleford might see my post here, and comment about my triple down strategy for Double Exposure. Does he still read these threads?

He drops by occasionally, often to suspend someone. You might pm him.

Quote: DrOakland

Thanks for the replies. Some may be wondering why I'm bringing this up 30 years later.

I wrote an article back then, "A Requiem for Vegas World" just after the place had closed. It was partially published in the Las Vegas Advisor. I happened to find it again on my old computer.

Guess I was hoping Michael Shackleford might see my post here, and comment about my triple down strategy for Double Exposure. Does he still read these threads?
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I think I remember seeing your name Dr Oakland. Did you post on bj21 or in blackjack forum?

Quote: Hunterhill

think I remember seeing your name Dr Oakland. Did you post on bj21 or in blackjack forum?

Yes I posted in Blackjack Forum back in the 90s and did the Reno/Tahoe Insider for a few issues. I met Bishop Snyder when he lived in Oakland.

Apparently you have shifted your interest off blackjack, because you rarely posted here or elsewhere. What new interests have you found?

Quote: aceside

Apparently you have shifted your interest off blackjack, because you rarely posted here or elsewhere. What new interests have you found?
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I was into poker for awhile, then bonus hunting in the online casinos back when that was hot. Mostly retired now..

Quote: DrOakland

Quote: Hunterhill

think I remember seeing your name Dr Oakland. Did you post on bj21 or in blackjack forum?

Yes I posted in Blackjack Forum back in the 90s and did the Reno/Tahoe Insider for a few issues. I met Bishop Snyder when he lived in Oakland.
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Good to see you posting again. I met Arnold a few times he was a really nice guy.