More errors in the movie "21"
January 21st, 2011 at 1:39:25 PM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
January 21st, 2011 at 1:50:43 PM
permalink
Sorry but I found that movie so offensive I don't even want to talk about it.
January 21st, 2011 at 1:53:54 PM
permalink
Some production assistant probably obtained a deck of used cards to make it look real. Certainly if the casino let them film there it sure didn't let the film crew near real cards.
I doubt the conversation would have been that precise: just "did x when the deck was favorable to him" and "did y when the deck was not favorable". Anyway, its just a movie and once one guy in surveillance could hardly get his two lines out because he was laughing at the dialog.
I doubt the conversation would have been that precise: just "did x when the deck was favorable to him" and "did y when the deck was not favorable". Anyway, its just a movie and once one guy in surveillance could hardly get his two lines out because he was laughing at the dialog.
January 21st, 2011 at 1:54:28 PM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
January 21st, 2011 at 4:50:22 PM
permalink
It was a comedy, wasn't it? Well, I laughed and laughed anyway..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 21st, 2011 at 5:06:17 PM
permalink
Those were only two of about 700 errors, misrepresentations, and technical blunders in the movie. It was about as good a representation of blackjack and card counting as "Lost in Space" was of space travel.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
January 21st, 2011 at 5:19:49 PM
permalink
Quote: mkl654321It was about as good a representation of blackjack and card counting as "Lost in Space" was of space travel.
Kevin Spacey was the voice of a robot in some cheezy space movie. The robot didn't play BJ, though..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 21st, 2011 at 5:44:50 PM
permalink
The movie stretched the truth of the book which stretched the truth of reality. I watched it with a fee-pass I had at the theater. I thought I would get a movie of the "Breaking Vegas" History Channel show. Yes, I was dissapointed. Remember my "McGovern Voter" analogy to this site. We are NOT the majority at all. People I know (all female) who liked the movie all had the same response to the flaws, "I don't care, he was cute."
And we wonder why 6:5 survives.........
And we wonder why 6:5 survives.........
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
January 21st, 2011 at 5:47:23 PM
permalink
Doesn't everybody hide hundreds of thousands in the wall instead of getting a safety deposit box?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 21st, 2011 at 6:18:53 PM
permalink
Quote: EvenBobDoesn't everybody hide hundreds of thousands in the wall instead of getting a safety deposit box?
The drop ceiling, not the wall. The ones smart enough to use a safe deposit box get into Stanford maybe?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
January 21st, 2011 at 9:17:24 PM
permalink
Quote: AZDuffmanThe drop ceiling, not the wall. The ones smart enough to use a safe deposit box get into Stanford maybe?
Ceiling, wall, by that time I wasn't paying attention anymore.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 21st, 2011 at 11:27:16 PM
permalink
I have a trillion dollars that I keep in my drawer, so I can't see any problem with that.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
May 18th, 2011 at 10:20:20 PM
permalink
I finally watched this movie. Lousy movie. Just stupid. Why did they do that line about not splitting 8's against a ten or an ace? That had to be deliberate.
May 19th, 2011 at 8:35:36 AM
permalink
Quote: pacomartinI finally watched this movie. Lousy movie. Just stupid. Why did they do that line about not splitting 8's against a ten or an ace? That had to be deliberate.
I have to agree with you, everyone on the planet knows this if they know anything about blackjack. It would have been cool if they were technically accurate, but it would have been a lot more lingo that most people wouldn't understand.
I heart Crystal Math.
May 19th, 2011 at 2:05:15 PM
permalink
Quote: CrystalMathI have to agree with you, everyone on the planet knows this if they know anything about blackjack. It would have been cool if they were technically accurate, but it would have been a lot more lingo that most people wouldn't understand.
Even without getting technical, the premise that you win every hand just because the count is high, and you will magically start losing if the count gets low was ridiculous. And why did the "secret signal" have to look like a referee call so that even a stoned surveillance guy could spot it. The whole theme of the movie was like a bad after school special. "Money is cool but if you get some, then sooner or later a big guy drags you into the basement and starts punching you, and then you realize that love is more important than money".
May 19th, 2011 at 2:51:03 PM
permalink
Worst gambling movie ever. Either the producers had no idea how BJ and casino gambling works, or they think the viewing public are morons. I can't stand Kevin Spacey anyway, he always has a sarcastic look in his eye in every movie he's in, like its beneath him to make a movie. I can't believe I sat thru the whole thing, what a joke.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 31st, 2011 at 10:27:48 AM
permalink
I liked it as the pure entertainment it was intended to be. Any Hollywood movie that talks about Newton-Raphson method is OK with me. Maybe flawed but what is a better fictional movie about blackjack?
October 31st, 2011 at 11:07:45 AM
permalink
There really isn't a lot of selection as far as blackjack related movies go. If you opened up hold'em into the mix you could get a few better card related movies.
And yea I don't think the movie was supposed to be an instruction manual, or 100% accurate walk-through of how you TOO can count cards! It was interested in selling tickets, and I can't say I hated it, just a little dry and slow.
I think the same people that get mad at this movie, think they're going to get some mind-bending, worldview altering experience every time they go to the theater, so they get angry when Transformers or insert "Marvel superhero movie" isn't deep as they want it to be.
Personally, I have no problem suspending disbelief and enjoying a good laser light show, so in that regard 21 isn't some uber-fail atrocity. It's just a very average Hollywood flick.
And yea I don't think the movie was supposed to be an instruction manual, or 100% accurate walk-through of how you TOO can count cards! It was interested in selling tickets, and I can't say I hated it, just a little dry and slow.
I think the same people that get mad at this movie, think they're going to get some mind-bending, worldview altering experience every time they go to the theater, so they get angry when Transformers or insert "Marvel superhero movie" isn't deep as they want it to be.
Personally, I have no problem suspending disbelief and enjoying a good laser light show, so in that regard 21 isn't some uber-fail atrocity. It's just a very average Hollywood flick.
October 31st, 2011 at 11:32:39 AM
permalink
Not really "about blackjack", but the plot of The Sons of Katie Elder involved a murder and swindle in which the father was supposedly playing blackjack when he lost all of his property, signing it over with his "X" mark.Quote: paisiellowhat is a better fictional movie about blackjack?
October 31st, 2011 at 11:39:05 AM
permalink
Keep in mind what I call the Homer Simpson Query "Does anything from the movies ever work?"
I named it after a Simpson's ep where Homer tries to head off wild animals by shouting "Jumanji!" which had no effect. Then he goes on to ask his question while he flees for his life.
Everything you see on the screen is there for either dramatic or esthetic-stylistic reasons, not for historical or real accuracy. Uuslaly it's sold well, that is it's presented consistently and, seemingly, realistically. This has the effect of making everything looks real, even if it's not. I'm sure lawyers have a field day taking courtroom dramas apart, historians dissect historical dramas, etc etc. A movie about counting cards at BJ would have glaring inaccuracies for APs and expereinced gamblers. For that matter many SF movies misrepresent science sometimes to the point of making it look like magic. I know that, yet I can enjoy most SF movies if they're otherwise interesting.
Some film-makers, in particular some screenplay writers with influence, may strive for accuracy in their works, at least in some aspects they consider important. For instance, all you see in the movie 2001 regarding airlocks, ships, spacesuits, etc is very accurate, becasue Kubrik and Clarke wanted it that way. They even bring up the lightspeed lag in radio communications. But even then, HAL and the Monolith are pure speculation.
I named it after a Simpson's ep where Homer tries to head off wild animals by shouting "Jumanji!" which had no effect. Then he goes on to ask his question while he flees for his life.
Everything you see on the screen is there for either dramatic or esthetic-stylistic reasons, not for historical or real accuracy. Uuslaly it's sold well, that is it's presented consistently and, seemingly, realistically. This has the effect of making everything looks real, even if it's not. I'm sure lawyers have a field day taking courtroom dramas apart, historians dissect historical dramas, etc etc. A movie about counting cards at BJ would have glaring inaccuracies for APs and expereinced gamblers. For that matter many SF movies misrepresent science sometimes to the point of making it look like magic. I know that, yet I can enjoy most SF movies if they're otherwise interesting.
Some film-makers, in particular some screenplay writers with influence, may strive for accuracy in their works, at least in some aspects they consider important. For instance, all you see in the movie 2001 regarding airlocks, ships, spacesuits, etc is very accurate, becasue Kubrik and Clarke wanted it that way. They even bring up the lightspeed lag in radio communications. But even then, HAL and the Monolith are pure speculation.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
October 31st, 2011 at 3:21:26 PM
permalink
Quote: NareedEverything you see on the screen is there for either dramatic or esthetic-stylistic reasons, not for historical or real accuracy.
It could also be there to deliberately misinform, so as to protect security of the real thing against those who would use 21 or any film as a "how to" or instructional "bomb-making" video.
October 31st, 2011 at 3:35:45 PM
permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpentIt could also be there to deliberately misinform, so as to protect security of the real thing against those who would use 21 or any film as a "how to" or instructional "bomb-making" video.
Not unless some casino or gaming company financed the movie.
Oh, product palcement is another reason why things appear on screen. See "Back To the Future II." I bet Pepsi paid a lot to be in that movie.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:48:47 AM
permalink
What was hilarious was I spotted numerous young "wannabee" counters show up in the casino shortly after the movie came out.
November 3rd, 2011 at 8:09:49 AM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
November 3rd, 2011 at 8:16:06 AM
permalink
Quote: IbeatyouracesI have yet to come across another counter in over 10+ years. Then again, I'm not in Vegas or AC.
Would you spot a counter for sure? I thought you guys were supposed to be hard to spot by the casino.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
November 3rd, 2011 at 8:19:30 AM
permalink
I've only played next to two of them in my time. At least two I thought were easy to recognize. I didn't see either of them backed off despite their obvious unit to count bets and flip-flopping insurance bets, but then again neither of them were slaying the casino.
I had an older gentlemen nearly shit his pants when I pushed half my stack on my last hand for the night on a neutral count. It was the alcohol, and the want to walk home with at least a noticeable win after hours of playing for about 500 bucks. He even said under his breath that now is not a good time for that kind of bet (and I did lose and get up even, so he was the better man).
The other was a younger Asian kid, again pretty much breaking even on a 50 table with no mid-shoe, he was largely left to break even by his own devices.
I have yet to witness someone obviously being backed off. Then again, I'm not in Vegas, and AC is different I suppose.
I had an older gentlemen nearly shit his pants when I pushed half my stack on my last hand for the night on a neutral count. It was the alcohol, and the want to walk home with at least a noticeable win after hours of playing for about 500 bucks. He even said under his breath that now is not a good time for that kind of bet (and I did lose and get up even, so he was the better man).
The other was a younger Asian kid, again pretty much breaking even on a 50 table with no mid-shoe, he was largely left to break even by his own devices.
I have yet to witness someone obviously being backed off. Then again, I'm not in Vegas, and AC is different I suppose.
November 3rd, 2011 at 11:06:15 AM
permalink
I think I saw the first few minutes on TV. It was one of those blackjack movies. The opening line was "Winner, winner; chicken dinner" and the next few minutes were spent trying to convince you that this phrase is somehow associated with blackjack. Thing is, I've never heard the phrase away from a craps table, and I find it annoying there, so I changed the channel. Sounds like I made the right decision.
As far as straight-up deceptive marketing goes, the BBC ran a programme called "Making Millions the Easy Way: Counting Cards". Brings Nareed's Homer Simpson quote to mind ....
As far as straight-up deceptive marketing goes, the BBC ran a programme called "Making Millions the Easy Way: Counting Cards". Brings Nareed's Homer Simpson quote to mind ....
November 3rd, 2011 at 11:39:54 AM
permalink
Quote: APDaveI've only played next to two of them in my time. At least two I thought were easy to recognize. I didn't see either of them backed off despite their obvious unit to count bets and flip-flopping insurance bets, but then again neither of them were slaying the casino.
I had an older gentlemen nearly shit his pants when I pushed half my stack on my last hand for the night on a neutral count. It was the alcohol, and the want to walk home with at least a noticeable win after hours of playing for about 500 bucks. He even said under his breath that now is not a good time for that kind of bet (and I did lose and get up even, so he was the better man).
The other was a younger Asian kid, again pretty much breaking even on a 50 table with no mid-shoe, he was largely left to break even by his own devices.
I have yet to witness someone obviously being backed off. Then again, I'm not in Vegas, and AC is different I suppose.
I can usually spot them within a shoe
November 3rd, 2011 at 11:54:42 AM
permalink
I think it can take two to four shoes if they flat bet through crappy counts and play through. I often play through of my own stubbornness.
November 3rd, 2011 at 11:59:45 AM
permalink
Did you know the Fitzgerald in Las Vegas is the only casino where that line can be taken literally? If you hit a four-of-a-kind on some video poker machines, they will give you a coupon for the cafe that you can use for their excellent fried chicken dinner. (It says steak dinner, but actually the coupon can be used for any menu item). I was disappointed the Wizard didn't mention this in his review.Quote: heatherThe opening line was "Winner, winner; chicken dinner" and the next few minutes were spent trying to convince you that this phrase is somehow associated with blackjack.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
November 3rd, 2011 at 2:52:41 PM
permalink
In reality, all the MIT leaders and many of the players were Oriental. So how realistic do you think the movies are going to be. They don't really want to cast a movie about Oriental nerds who didn't think their fake cover stories would stand out like sore thumbs.
November 4th, 2011 at 2:47:47 PM
permalink
I saw one of the original crew members, an Asian guy, say that he'd rather have a white guy play him than have his avatar chosen from Hollywood's small pool of Asian talent.
November 4th, 2011 at 3:29:10 PM
permalink
Quote: heatherI saw one of the original crew members, an Asian guy, say that he'd rather have a white guy play him than have his avatar chosen from Hollywood's small pool of Asian talent.
I think it's hilarious when PC lib Hollywood changes the white guy from the novel into a black guy in the movie. If you read the book first, it doesn't work.
November 4th, 2011 at 3:36:51 PM
permalink
That's the same PC Liberal Hollywood that was gonna remake Akira in New York, with no Japanese guys at all?
Hint: it's not about liberal or PC... it's about selling tickets.
Hint: it's not about liberal or PC... it's about selling tickets.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
November 4th, 2011 at 3:57:32 PM
permalink
The most annoying result from that movie was that stupid "Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!" line. Casino patrons were annoying enough already without shouting that retarded phase every 5 minutes.
November 4th, 2011 at 5:39:40 PM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
November 5th, 2011 at 1:59:04 PM
permalink
Quote: MarieBicurieThe most annoying result from that movie was that stupid "Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!" line. Casino patrons were annoying enough already without shouting that retarded phase every 5 minutes.
That is very annoying.
November 5th, 2011 at 1:59:04 PM
permalink
Quote: MarieBicurieThe most annoying result from that movie was that stupid "Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!" line. Casino patrons were annoying enough already without shouting that retarded phase every 5 minutes.
That is very annoying.
February 26th, 2016 at 12:01:30 AM
permalink
(just found this thread)
I saw the movie with the Wizard in the theater. Afterward I said I was thinking of writing an article about the inaccuracies in it. He replied, "You ought to write about the things they got right, that would be a shorter list."
I saw the movie with the Wizard in the theater. Afterward I said I was thinking of writing an article about the inaccuracies in it. He replied, "You ought to write about the things they got right, that would be a shorter list."
I run Easy Vegas ( https://easy.vegas )
February 26th, 2016 at 7:17:02 AM
permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay(just found this thread)
I saw the movie with the Wizard in the theater. Afterward I said I was thinking of writing an article about the inaccuracies in it. He replied, "You ought to write about the things they got right, that would be a shorter list."
I finally watched this movie a few months ago. I found your article to be hilarious and spot-on.
My biggest problem with the film was how he went on tilt, betting huge sums of money with no edge and that was apparently the ONLY time he lost money. Like many other Hollywood depictions of card counting (Rainman and The Hangover come to mind), if you know what you're doing it's a license to print money.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 26th, 2016 at 7:47:02 AM
permalink
My bigger issue was this... He bet huge, and the dealer drew out like a 4-5 card hand, indicating the count for the round MUST have went up (if memory serves me correctly). For some reason he then got the sign to leave the table, and he didn't and tilt bet more... but wouldn't he of at least been betting in a positive situation? Why would he have ever gotten the signal to leave just because he lost a hand with a positive expectation?
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
February 26th, 2016 at 8:13:50 AM
permalink
The cause of Ben's erratic behavior leading to his tilt was his teammate's (Fisher) jealousy. Also Ben losing his two pre-blackjack buddies when he got the wrong chip for that robot competition.
It doesn't matter how great player you are if your life outside is not happy and in balance this will negatively affect your game. I think this is the message that is being stressed.
It doesn't matter how great player you are if your life outside is not happy and in balance this will negatively affect your game. I think this is the message that is being stressed.
February 26th, 2016 at 9:48:19 AM
permalink
Not as serious , but just watched "last Vegas" and I instantly called BS on Morgan freeman spilling a beer ON THE TABLE . I told my wife , no way they let you set beers on the felt . Of course a beer wouldn't have spilt if it was in the cup holder . Hollywood uses "poetic license" to make a point or make something more dramatic
February 26th, 2016 at 10:00:26 AM
permalink
Quote: Greg216Not as serious , but just watched "last Vegas" and I instantly called BS on Morgan freeman spilling a beer ON THE TABLE . I told my wife , no way they let you set beers on the felt . Of course a beer wouldn't have spilt if it was in the cup holder . Hollywood uses "poetic license" to make a point or make something more dramatic
Huh? I've done that before. Sober even, immediately after my first sip, and without the cup holder set up.
🤓
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
February 26th, 2016 at 10:05:28 AM
permalink
I've seen many beers spilled on tables.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
February 26th, 2016 at 10:06:05 AM
permalink
Personally, I don't think the movie was bad. Of course there are going to be some inaccuracies, but if I remember correctly, it was a film for entertainment, not a documentary.
I'm pretty sure the MIT team did actually go on a huge winning streak.
I'm pretty sure the MIT team did actually go on a huge winning streak.
February 26th, 2016 at 10:14:28 AM
permalink
Agreed that overall the movie was entertaining. I still watch it now and then for fun... Makes me want to play =P.Quote: RSPersonally, I don't think the movie was bad. Of course there are going to be some inaccuracies, but if I remember correctly, it was a film for entertainment, not a documentary.
I'm pretty sure the MIT team did actually go on a huge winning streak.
MIT started on a huge win streak, then as they started to lose resentment grew amongst players/managers/owners and ultimately it ended up splitting off to a new team with better incentives to the players.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
February 26th, 2016 at 10:23:28 AM
permalink
The beers were way out on the table (like they were betting them )....
Let's not getting started on "Vegas vacation"
Let's not getting started on "Vegas vacation"
February 26th, 2016 at 10:26:55 AM
permalink
Quote: Greg216The beers were way out on the table (like they were betting them )....
Let's not getting started on "Vegas vacation"
Play a slot, win a car!
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 26th, 2016 at 10:31:38 AM
permalink
I must admit I have spilled my drink on the felt, and it was pretty good scotch, not beer ;-(Quote: IbeatyouracesI've seen many beers spilled on tables.
Scotch I paid for, and tipped for!
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
