richodude
richodude
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August 14th, 2022 at 1:31:26 AM permalink
My casino hosts a bj tournament where a blackjack pays 2:1. I found this to give a 1.73% edge to the player (6d, H17, DD on any 2, DAS, RSA, no surrender, 1d pen.)
If you start with 1k in chips, what would the optimal bet be to maximize profits without deviating broke assuming perfect strategy and no counting. Maybe 5-10% risk of ruin as a benchmark. What if I added counting and a bet spread? I have no software and every source I find assumes the casino has the edge (who knew?)
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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August 14th, 2022 at 1:49:08 AM permalink
Quote: richodude

My casino hosts a bj tournament where a blackjack pays 2:1. I found this to give a 1.73% edge to the player (6d, H17, DD on any 2, DAS, RSA, no surrender, 1d pen.)
If you start with 1k in chips, what would the optimal bet be to maximize profits without deviating broke assuming perfect strategy and no counting. Maybe 5-10% risk of ruin as a benchmark. What if I added counting and a bet spread? I have no software and every source I find assumes the casino has the edge (who knew?)
link to original post




nobody can say what the optimal bet size would be until you state the size of your Bankroll - or the casino's rules re bet size for the tourney

accepting a risk of ruin is a personal thing - but 10% is very high - many full time pros aim for about 1%

ballpark estimate of the edge with counting and a bet spread assuming 1.73 edge to the player off the top :

a very good garden variety counter (no special tricks such as holecarding) can get an overall edge of about 1.25%

your 1.73 edge in the tourney is about 2.23% greater than basic strategy against 3/2 BJ off the top (which is about negative one half of one percent)

so, adding 2.23 + 1.25 gets you an edge of about 3.48%

very sweet indeed


.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on Aug 14, 2022
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
AlanMendelson
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camaplMichaelBluejayBleedingChipsSlowly
August 14th, 2022 at 5:06:04 AM permalink
I'm probably the dumbest blackjack player here but I've played in several free casino tournaments.

What I noticed is that the winner at my table who advances to the next round is typically the guy who bets it all when others are making conservative bets.

They double up or bust and that's their strategy.

In a tournament you're limited to maybe 20 plays?

Proper strategy won't get you far with only 20 hands.

I think it's like that for other tournaments too. Take your shot.

Remember you're not playing against the house. You're playing against the others at your table.
lilredrooster
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August 14th, 2022 at 7:44:28 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm probably the dumbest blackjack player here but I've played in several free casino tournaments.

What I noticed is that the winner at my table who advances to the next round is typically the guy who bets it all when others are making conservative bets.

They double up or bust and that's their strategy.

In a tournament you're limited to maybe 20 plays?

Proper strategy won't get you far with only 20 hands.

I think it's like that for other tournaments too. Take your shot.

Remember you're not playing against the house. You're playing against the others at your table.
link to original post




yes, but he stated that he wanted to "maximize profits"

I assumed that meant that he was mainly interested in profiting from his play - not winning the tourney - and that the tourney rules allow him to do that

I dunno - not 100% sure what he was asking

.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
richodude
richodude
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August 14th, 2022 at 10:37:55 AM permalink
"yes, but he stated that he wanted to "maximize profits"
I assumed that meant that he was mainly interested in profiting from his play - not winning the tourney - and that the tourney rules allow him to do that"



Sorry, its a round based tourney and only the winner gets a prize. of course you want to bet high, but bet too high and standard deviation kicks your ass. I believe at best you can do 40 betting units (1k/25). I'm just not sure how to factor in standard deviation when doing the math
richodude
richodude
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August 14th, 2022 at 10:42:36 AM permalink
just looked at the site, they do 15 hands a round, person with the least cash is out. After each round you reset back to 1k. You really are praying for blackjack and good luck at that point
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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August 15th, 2022 at 5:55:10 AM permalink
Quote: richodude

just looked at the site, they do 15 hands a round, person with the least cash is out. After each round you reset back to 1k. You really are praying for blackjack and good luck at that point
link to original post



It’s a little too complicated to give an answer to the question you are posing. Tournament strategy has many factors that will lead you to make what on the face of it appear nonsensical. Can you envision a time when you might need to double down with 19 against a dealer 5?
Anyway, the extra pay for a BJ is close to irrelevant in a small number of bets tournament.
technics
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August 18th, 2022 at 7:18:26 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm probably the dumbest blackjack player here but I've played in several free casino tournaments.

What I noticed is that the winner at my table who advances to the next round is typically the guy who bets it all when others are making conservative bets.

They double up or bust and that's their strategy.

In a tournament you're limited to maybe 20 plays?

Proper strategy won't get you far with only 20 hands.

I think it's like that for other tournaments too. Take your shot.

Remember you're not playing against the house. You're playing against the others at your table.
link to original post





Best tournament strategy is to bet conservative during the half (10 hands in this tournament) hoping that negative expectation will eliminate or greatly damage the other players bankroll. Once you get to the second half, if you’re behind that’s when you should start betting aggressively……making big enough bets that will get you into first place.
MichaelBluejay
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August 19th, 2022 at 9:32:07 PM permalink
Stanford Wong has a book about tournament strategy, but the basic idea has been stated here: tournaments are not at all like normal blackjack. Your bet size depends on how much your opponents have.

I played only one tournament, and busted out early trying to catch up. It was down to two players at my table, and the losing player was betting like one or two chips each hand. I kept trying to tell her that at that rate, even if she won every single hand and her opponent lost every single hand, there's no way she would pass him. The dealer cautioned me to not help the other players. She didn't listen to me, won most of her hands, but finished way behind the chip leader.

Incidentally, that chip leader was a large Japanese man with an eye patch. When he sat down I thought I was in a James Bond movie.
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ksdjdj
ksdjdj
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August 21st, 2022 at 9:58:16 PM permalink
Quote: richodude

just looked at the site, they do 15 hands a round, person with the least cash is out. After each round you reset back to 1k. You really are praying for blackjack and good luck at that point
link to original post


Here is a great site.
I recommend you read the info in the above site all the way through before asking any more questions in this thread..

Note: you may have to tweak the strategies mentioned for all the rounds except the final round(?), since the chip count resets and only the last place finisher is eliminated.
Romes
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September 15th, 2022 at 5:07:50 PM permalink
For $9 you can get all of your answers:

https://www.amazon.com/Casino-Tournament-Strategy-Stanford-Wong/dp/0935926224/ref=sr_1_1?crid=YK2JR5CEGZW0&keywords=casino+tournament+strategy&qid=1663286754&sprefix=casino+tournament+strategy%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-1

Similar to poker tournaments vs cash games, tournaments employ an EXTREMELY different strategy than the regular game. If this were a regular cash blackjack table the best strategy would be to bet as much as you can flat betting as long as you can and let the advantage work in your favor. However, since this is a tournament, playing against the other PLAYERS is your biggest concern... thus stack size, bet size, positioning, etc, all comes in to much more effect. The plays are more situational and there isn't just "one" thing you can do to play it best.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
DRich
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September 15th, 2022 at 6:22:41 PM permalink
I always enjoyed playing BJ tournaments. I have probably played 30 or 40 of them. Won a couple and did very well overall. In the early stages most people have no clue about strategy.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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