Poll

18 votes (66.66%)
9 votes (33.33%)

27 members have voted

guido111
guido111
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December 13th, 2010 at 6:35:41 PM permalink
From the Wizards site: http://www.sweatthemoney.com/sands1.html

"a player doubled on A8, got a 2, the dealer drew to 17, and casino management refused to pay him, saying the player had 11."

from the player "This little casino allows double on 9, 10, 11 only. This is stated in a sign on the table."

From the ruling of the Gaming Board that the Wizard linked to in the article, what would have happened if the player could double on any 2 cards?
I say the player would then have 21 and win the hand.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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December 13th, 2010 at 7:49:09 PM permalink
Wow. Talk about losing to a lousy technicality.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 13th, 2010 at 8:19:23 PM permalink
I take the player's side 100%. As the player noted in his complaint, any ambiguity in the rules should go against the party writing them. Here the casino had a rule that if the player doubled on A8 the ace was forced to count as 1. However, the rule was nowhere in writing and the player was not warned about it. There is little doubt, in my opinion, that this was a very bad ruling on the part of Gaming.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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December 13th, 2010 at 8:28:10 PM permalink
The casino was technically within its rights to count the A8 as a hard 9 once it was doubled. It was also a cheapo, angle shot to do so, and any casino that did that would deserve to lose every single one of its customers.

I am shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED that the Nevada Lapdog, er, Gaming Control Board sided with the casino in this dispute. Who would have thought that those armor-clad paladins of honest gaming on white chargers would have done so?????
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
teddys
teddys
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December 13th, 2010 at 8:49:26 PM permalink
Since you brought up sweatthemoney.com, why is it no longer updated nor listed in the Wizard Family of Websites (TM)? I think it is a great site and serves a useful purpose.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 13th, 2010 at 8:58:41 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Since you brought up sweatthemoney.com, why is it no longer updated nor listed in the Wizard Family of Websites (TM)? I think it is a great site and serves a useful purpose.



Thanks for the compliment on that site. To this day the number of disputes players brought to me directly is zero. There was not enough material to gain a certain critical mass for the site to take off. I don't want to direct my readers to a site I'm not proud of.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
weaselman
weaselman
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December 13th, 2010 at 8:58:55 PM permalink
I think, the player should not have been allowed to double in the first place. Ace is supposed to count as one or eleven to make the best hand. A8 is therefore nineteen, and should not be allowed to be doubled under the rules.
I think, he should have argued that in his complaint.
If you count A8 as nine, and insist it can be doubled, than the board is clearly correct - 9+2=11, there is no ambiguity.

My understanding is that the whole purpose of allowing the doubles on 9,10,11 only is to exclude soft doubles. The basic strategy calculator at http://www.online-casinos.com/blackjack/basic-strategy-calculator.php (I could not find Wizard's page that allows this option) says one should stand on A8, I am guessing, for this reason.

I understand how it sucks for the player, but have to conclude that the casino was right in this case.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 13th, 2010 at 9:07:22 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

I think, the player should not have been allowed to double in the first place. Ace is supposed to count as one or eleven to make the best hand. A8 is therefore nineteen, and should not be allowed to be doubled under the rules.
I think, he should have argued that in his complaint.
If you count A8 as nine, and insist it can be doubled, than the board is clearly correct - 9+2=11, there is no ambiguity.



I've been in this situation before and was warned that if I doubled my ace would remain as 1 point. That is the what should have happened at the Sands, if they must have that silly rule to begin with. The effect on the house edge is very tiny in the casino's favor. Without the warning, I think the ace should be allowed to switch from 1 to 11 points at the player's will.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
OneAngryDwarf
OneAngryDwarf
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December 14th, 2010 at 8:41:25 AM permalink
Funnily enough, I actually visited the Sands Regency when I was last in Reno (a sad dump of a casino, BTW...no reason to ever go back) and they had electronic marquees everywhere saying something to the effect of "An Ace shall ALWAYS count as 1 when doubling down in the double-deck game." So they weren't upfront about it at the time, but they are definitely trying to play CYA now...
"I believe I've passed the age/of consciousness and righteous rage/I've found that just surviving was a noble fight... I once believed in causes too/I had my pointless point of view/And life went on no matter who was wrong or right..." --Billy Joel
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 15th, 2010 at 8:19:15 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

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