Splitting tens

Mohegan Sun in CT does not allow to split tens or face cards. I am wondering what could possibly be the reason for such rule - since it's never the right play anyway, I would think, that the casino should welcome such move rather than forbid it.
I used to think, this was an attempt to make a card counter's life harder (since the only reason you might ever want to split tens is if you are counting), but recently, I noticed that even at one of the few tables there that had CSMs it was still disallowed.


Can any one think of an explanation, other than they just did not want to make an exception in the rules for those few tables (I don't like this explanation, because those tables are also the only H17 ones, so, in a way, they are already exceptional).

My hunch is that some bureaucrat suggested that rule as a player protection against himself, and everybody went along with it, not wanting to look unsympathetic to the player. For somewhat the same reason in most states you can't buy Everclear,' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)]Everclear, although in Nevada you can!

In Atlantic City there is a similar rule forbidding hitting or doubling on a blackjack, which you should do sometimes in Double Exposure. There is also a rule in Atlantic City, which I agree with, prohibiting the big 6 and 8 bets in craps (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I doubt protecting the casino from card counters was the reason. It isn't that strong a play for card counters, but does wave a gigantic red flag that says "Either I'm an idiot or a genius, you figure it out."

Quote: Wizard

... For somewhat the same reason in most states you can't buy Everclear,' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)]Everclear, although in Nevada you can! ...

Off-topic response: I was not familiar with Everclear, but the article you linked to points out that in Nevada it is legal to purchase the 151 proof version but not the 190 proof, even though that more-potent version is legal to purchase in more than half of the states.

There IS one strategic time when splitting 10s is a wise move: When your in a BJ tournament.

Quote: Wizard

There is also a rule in Atlantic City, which I agree with, prohibiting the big 6 and 8 bets in craps (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

You're right. And apparently, PA copied AC's rules. The Big 6/8 isn't in the 2 PA casinos I visited.

Big 6/8 should pay a bonus of the hard way... then it'd at least be a variant (maybe 3/2 on a hard way, evens on everything else).

Quote: thecesspit

Big 6/8 should pay a bonus of the hard way... then it'd at least be a variant (maybe 3/2 on a hard way, evens on everything else).

I agree. Some casinos have used that space for other prop bets, which I support.

About the 190 proof Everclear, I didn't know that, thanks.

Quote: weaselman

Mohegan Sun in CT does not allow to split tens or face cards. I am wondering what could possibly be the reason for such rule - since it's never the right play anyway, I would think, that the casino should welcome such move rather than forbid it.
I used to think, this was an attempt to make a card counter's life harder (since the only reason you might ever want to split tens is if you are counting), but recently, I noticed that even at one of the few tables there that had CSMs it was still disallowed.


Can any one think of an explanation, other than they just did not want to make an exception in the rules for those few tables (I don't like this explanation, because those tables are also the only H17 ones, so, in a way, they are already exceptional).

When counting cards, there are index numbers for splitting 10's against a 5 or 6. Most counters I know keep the 20 because splitting can be a red flag. They consider it a form of cover play not to split.

I have been asking periodically since 1996 why Mohegan Sun does not allow splitting 10's. The answer from dealer to high level management has always been the same. They don't want fights to break out among the players. That simple explanation makes me wonder if anyone really knows. Since it has been 14 years, the person who thought this one up probably doesn't work there any more.

In any event, isn't it nice to know that they don't want the players killing each other?

Quote: benbakdoff

I have been asking periodically since 1996 why Mohegan Sun does not allow splitting 10's. The answer from dealer to high level management has always been the same. They don't want fights to break out among the players.

I was going to suggest that theory. It seems to me that the most uncontrollable anger I've seen comes when a player starts to split tens. There is almost always someone at the table that believes that the splitter is ruining the table for him. It's an easy way to minimize fights.

Quote: Wizard

I doubt protecting the casino from card counters was the reason. It isn't that strong a play for card counters, but does wave a gigantic red flag that says "Either I'm an idiot or a genius, you figure it out."

Last time I split ten's the deck was 7-9 abundant with the dealer showing a 4 in a + count. The player sitting next to me had a 10, anyways he was making bad plays and pretty much throwing a fit me when I made strategy deviation's. I winked at the dealer and said split. Threw my money out and pulled a 13 still 7-9 abundant so I crossed my fingers and made another "bad play" I said double me down captain, I pulled an 8 for a 21. On the other hand I got a 4 to make 14. I said why not I can either double and break even on the hand or win and be ahead. So I was out of $5 dollar chips and toke a $25 chip out and said change please. I got my stack of $5 chips and doubled down. I turned away from the table and the next thing I know the people that had gathered to watch this hand play out erupted in cheers. I turned around and sure enough I had another 21. The other player pulled a 6 and ten and busted out. I stole his twenty 1 if you are paying attention. And the dealer turned over his hole card and showed a 6 hit for 16 hit again for a ten. If you payed attention you would have noticed had I decided to stand on the tens I would have had a 20, the other player would have had a 21 and the dealer would have had a 21. Isnt if funny how the cards fall. I turned a $15 losing hand into a $60 winning hand the other player left and I didn't have to play with someone who was taking the dealers bust cards and giving him winning hands anymore.

Quote: blackjackgolden

Last time I split ten's the deck was 7-9 abundant with the dealer showing a 4 in a + count. The player sitting next to me had a 10, anyways he was making bad plays and pretty much throwing a fit me when I made strategy deviation's. I winked at the dealer and said split. Threw my money out and pulled a 13 still 7-9 abundant so I crossed my fingers and made another "bad play" I said double me down captain, I pulled an 8 for a 21. On the other hand I got a 4 to make 14. I said why not I can either double and break even on the hand or win and be ahead. So I was out of $5 dollar chips and toke a $25 chip out and said change please. I got my stack of $5 chips and doubled down. I turned away from the table and the next thing I know the people that had gathered to watch this hand play out erupted in cheers. I turned around and sure enough I had another 21. The other player pulled a 6 and ten and busted out. I stole his twenty 1 if you are paying attention. And the dealer turned over his hole card and showed a 6 hit for 16 hit again for a ten. If you payed attention you would have noticed had I decided to stand on the tens I would have had a 20, the other player would have had a 21 and the dealer would have had a 21. Isnt if funny how the cards fall. I turned a $15 losing hand into a $60 winning hand the other player left and I didn't have to play with someone who was taking the dealers bust cards and giving him winning hands anymore.

Shame on that player for taking the dealer's bust cards. That could make you lose the next time you double hard 13s and 14s.

You just missed bjgod. He stopped posting yesterday at 5:30 AM and you began posting 29 minutes later. What are the odds on that ?

2 for 1... You get two of me for the price of one!

I only double on hands like that when the count and side counts are agreeable either way negative neutral or positive and the dealer shows a 4-6 up....agreeable usually means meaning 7-9 abundant or 7-9 short since I usually only play Double deck games. Also I will do the same if I am playing a single deck game and the deck 6, 7, or 8-9 abundant or short with low - or positive counts.....Also if the side count is agreeable I have even been known to double on hands as low as 2,2 with a 4-6 dealer up card. And if the deck is 7-9 depleted in a negative count to a point that I am comfortable with I have been know to double on 17. And in the same game where I split tens i also doubled on an Ace-9 for a 21 and pushed the dealer I would have loved to won which I would have if I didnt double but it is kind of exciting when it happens.... agreeable usually means meaning 7-9 abundant or 7-9 short since I usually only play Double deck games. Also I will do the same if I am playing a single deck game and the deck 6, 7, or 8-9 abundant or short with low - or positive counts.....Sometimes if I feel like the risk is greater than the reward I will also do it in high counts going either way if I have a comfortable profit and the loss of that hand like that wouldn't effect it all that much. If the side count is agreeable.

Any comments would be appreciated from some one under standing side counts!

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