new movie "The Card Counter"
debuts in theaters today - from Scorsese - got an excellent review from the NYT which I didn't link because of their paywall
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Written and directed by Schrader.
Schrader wrote four screenplays for Scorsese among many films in his career including Taxi Driver.
The initial score at IMDB is 6.7, which is pretty low, given the rating inflation at that site.
For example Mississippi Grind is rated 6.4 and it does have some issues but I enjoyed watching it more than once because of the subject matter. Lay the Favorite, is only 4.8 but worth at least one viewing, again, if you interested in that genre. Honeymoon in Vegas, again, silly, 5.8, but worth watching once, just for the casino and gambling context.
linked is a review from the L.A. Times - the reviewer was very impressed with the movie
it looks like a lot is going on in this movie that's not related to gambling
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https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2021-09-09/card-counter-review-oscar-isaac-tiffany-haddish-paul-schrader
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He's a ploppy.
Card counting is such a lonely occupation, in my experience. Yet the trailer has a girl using her tongue as she says she's "Looking for a thoroughbred" and then a younger hot-shot AP/cheat that the card counter interacts with. Those are Hollywood script devices, IMO. Still, I hope the depiction of card-counting is 10X better than it was in the film about the MIT Team.
I'm assuming that no one in this forum was a technical adviser to the film?
But it's supposed to be a comedy. (She's also playing a pachinko machine meant for home use while surrounded by real slot machines.)
That would be The Bettor Life podcast featuring Tim Lawson. As usual when reviewing gambling movies, Mark DeVol of the You Can Bet On That podcast was with him providing his own opinions.Quote: mcallister3200Some gambling podcast did a review on it, and their opinion was its not a gambling movie despite the title. It does ha e gambling in it, hes a gambler. He is a gambler but they could have made him about anything without really changing the story.
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Yeah, that was their mutual opinion- that despite the name, it wasnt a gambling story. And there was more poker than blackjack, although not much of that either.
Let me say, most importantly, that this isn't a gambling movie. It is about a mid-level advantage player, mainly poker but also blackjack, but the gambling is only touched on lightly. The movie is very badly named and I feel misled.
The movie is about the guards who worked interrogating and torturing prisoners in Iraq in the early 2000's. Their lives come together years after the fact. That is about as far as I'll take it. To go further might violate forum rules on political and controversial speech.
While I can't fault the movie on any technical level, it simply wasn't enjoyable to watch. I'm normally one to like dark movies, but I felt I was being tortured to watch it. However, I had to see how things would end, so I stuck with it.
Perhaps I'll write a longer review later. However, for now, please don't see this movie because it's a gambling movie. IT'S NOT!
Of course, Taxi Driver screenplay is by Paul Schrader, the same guy who wrote and directed this film. So sounds like he is just going by the MO that has worked for him for years.
I.e. no cab drivers seemed to complain Taxi Driver was really making political statements and could have easily been about a garbage man or postal worker (there would have been some irony years later if it had been a postal worker. Too bad)
Not excusing the film. I haven't seen it. Just stating the context of it's title.
Quote: darkozIt sounds like this movie is as much about the experience of being an advantage player as Taxi Driver was about the experience of driving a yellow cab.
I agree. Perhaps the title is an homage to Taxi Driver. Call me fooled by thinking it would be about card counting.
Quote: WizardI agree. Perhaps the title is an homage to Taxi Driver. Call me fooled by thinking it would be about card counting.
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I noticed many movies are titled after a very small part of the plot, like how Ben Affleck's The accountant isn't really about Accounting. (wouldn't that make a fun movie!)
Quote: tyler498I noticed many movies are titled after a very small part of the plot, like how Ben Affleck's The accountant isn't really about Accounting. (wouldn't that make a fun movie!)
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I agree. Save the Tiger is another good example. However, card counting has always been a dramatic topic for movies. Accounting is not.
I also think the trailer is misleading, with about half the time having to do with gambling. I would roughly estimate only about 10% of the actual movie time is gambling related and that 10% is not very interesting or relevant to the plot.
Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zia6QXtrEJI
Quote: WizardI just saw it.
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Let me say, most importantly, that this isn't a gambling movie. It is about a mid-level advantage player, mainly poker but also blackjack, but the gambling is only touched on lightly. The movie is very badly named and I feel misled.
The movie is about the guards who worked interrogating and torturing prisoners in Iraq in the early 2000's. Their lives come together years after the fact. That is about as far as I'll take it. To go further might violate forum rules on political and controversial speech.
While I can't fault the movie on any technical level, it simply wasn't enjoyable to watch. I'm normally one to like dark movies, but I felt I was being tortured to watch it. However, I had to see how things would end, so I stuck with it.
Perhaps I'll write a longer review later. However, for now, please don't see this movie because it's a gambling movie. IT'S NOT!
Saves me eight bucks, thanks!
Quote: Mission146Quote: WizardI just saw it.
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Let me say, most importantly, that this isn't a gambling movie. It is about a mid-level advantage player, mainly poker but also blackjack, but the gambling is only touched on lightly. The movie is very badly named and I feel misled.
The movie is about the guards who worked interrogating and torturing prisoners in Iraq in the early 2000's. Their lives come together years after the fact. That is about as far as I'll take it. To go further might violate forum rules on political and controversial speech.
While I can't fault the movie on any technical level, it simply wasn't enjoyable to watch. I'm normally one to like dark movies, but I felt I was being tortured to watch it. However, I had to see how things would end, so I stuck with it.
Perhaps I'll write a longer review later. However, for now, please don't see this movie because it's a gambling movie. IT'S NOT!
Saves me eight bucks, thanks!link to original post
You definitely don't live in Manhattan. The matinee is $10!
Quote: tyler498link to original post
I noticed many movies are titled after a very small part of the plot, like how Ben Affleck's The accountant isn't really about Accounting. (wouldn't that make a fun movie!)
"One Night In Paris" was aptly named.
And so on.
Quote: MDawgUhh, The Gambler (the Dostoevsky book, the Kenny Rogers song and both movies) is about a gambler. Casino is about a casino. Goodfellas is about goodfellas. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight or Ode on a Grecian Urn are exactly about their titles.
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And so on.
Well, A Clockwork Orange has nothing to do with working clocks or Oranges.
Quote: darkozWell, A Clockwork Orange has nothing to do with working clocks or Oranges.
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I think that title had to do with a poem that suggested changing a man's nature, as was attempted in the movie, was akin to making a clockwork (or mechanical) orange.
-Anthony Burgess, Introduction to A Clockwork Orange
Excerpts from the novel itself:
"It's a book," I said. "It's a book what you are writing." I made the old goloss very coarse. "I have always had the strong-est admiration for them as can write books." Then I looked at its top sheet, and there was the name - A C L O C K W O R K O R A N G E - and I said: "That's a fair gloopy title. Who ever heard of a clockwork orange?" Then I read a malenky bit out loud in a sort of very high type preaching goloss: " - The attempt to impose upon man, a creature of growth and capable of sweetness, to ooze juicily at the last round the bearded lips of God, to attempt to impose, I say, laws and conditions appropriate to a mechanical creation, against this I raise my sword-pen - " Dim made the old lip-music at that and I had to smeck myself.
And, slooshying with different bliss than before, I viddied again this name on the paper I'd razrezzed that night, a long time ago it seemed, in that cottage called HOME. The name was about a clockwork orange. Listening to the J. S. Bach, I began to pony better what that meant now, and I thought, slooshying away to the brown gorgeousness of the starry German master, that I would like to have tolchecked them both harder and ripped them to ribbons on their own floor.
"Me, me, me. How about me? Where do I come into all this? Am I just some animal or dog?" And that started them off govoreeting real loud and throwing slovos at me. So I creeched louder, still creeching: "Am I just to be like a clockwork orange?" I didn't know what made me use those slovos, brothers, which just came like without asking into my gulliver. And that shut all those vecks up for some reason for a minoota or two. Then one very thin starry professor type chelloveck stood up, his neck like all cables carrying like power from his gulliver to his plott, and he said:
"You have no cause to grumble, boy. You made your choice and all this is a consequence of your choice. Whatever now ensues is what you yourself have chosen."
The main character travels the mid-Atlantic area, chasing poker tournaments and conventions at casinos where he believes there to be soft play. At one such tournament, he runs into an old acquaintance, Lalinda, who, it is explained, it an agent between investors and professional poker players. She explains how net winnings are split 50/50 between the player and the investors, who may or may not wish to be known. I suppose she travels around to these tournaments to verify the winnings and losings of the players in her "stable."
No particular question here, just opening it up to discussion. I have heard, many times, of investors backing professional gamblers who are high on skill and low on money. It's usually done on a play by play basis. I guess my question is whether this is so organized at the poker level that there are agents involved between the players and investors?
Photo: LA Times
Quote: WizardI guess my question is whether this is so organized at the poker level that there are agents involved between the players and investors?
Youstake exists.
I believe I first heard about it on the Gambling with an Edge podcast.
Beyond that, I know less about poker than you do, so hopefully someone with firsthand knowledge can tell us - straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.
When you see these televised super-high-roller tournaments with buy-ins of 100k to 300K, they often (usually?) only own a fraction of their buy-in. I imagine that helps them to avoid the "playing scared" problem (although those guys probably don't have that problem.) It is amazing to see some of those players bust out and do a re-buy, and occasionally bust out a 2nd time and re-buy again.
Quote: gordonm888Successful players usually are well-known and don't need an agent to attract investors.
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I would expect an agent would be there to represent the investor, not the player.
Quote: billryanI'd think that any fairly large team that also has outside investors would have agents or handlers working with them. Someone to manage rooms, flights, bankrolls, etc, etc. If I were based in Vegas, I'd want all the money staying there rather than flying back and forth all the time. You'd want a safe house, so to speak and someone to coordinate play.
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When I was an investor in a card counting team, we had a safe house in Vegas. Other places too, I think.
Of course, I don't card count except when counting my (players) cards
I think people are split roughly 50/50 between being being basically good or bad. The 50% bad ones will usually appear good, but will stab you in the back the second they think it is in their best interest to.
Quote: WizardNot that anyone asked, but after being around professional gamblers for over 20 years, I would recommend against backing professional gamblers unless there is an extremely high level of trust.
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I think people are split roughly 50/50 between being being basically good or bad. The 50% bad ones will usually appear good, but will stab you in the back the second they think it is in their best interest to.
I cant remember where i read that 90% of card counters fail.
Of course it opens the door for collusion, but I imagine the really famous ones wouldn't risk their brands by cheating.
Quote: DeucekiesI think you'll find that among the big name poker players, many of them will even buy stakes in each other. Player A buys 33% of Players B and C, Player B does same with A and C, Player C does same with A and B, effectively pooling their results. Great way to reduce variance.
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Of course it opens the door for collusion, but I imagine the really famous ones wouldn't risk their brands by cheating.
You mean like Absolute Bet and Ultimate Poker?
Quote: jjjooogggI cant remember where i read that 90% of card counters fail.
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In my experience, about 90% of self-proclaimed card counters don't know the basic strategy.
Always remember- If you can think it, then you can be it. Perhaps not in the real world, but certainly on these forums.
Quote: WizardNot that anyone asked, but after being around professional gamblers for over 20 years, I would recommend against backing professional gamblers unless there is an extremely high level of trust.
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I think people are split roughly 50/50 between being being basically good or bad. The 50% bad ones will usually appear good, but will stab you in the back the second they think it is in their best interest to.
I have found gamblers usually fall in two categories. Some will give you every excuse in the world. Other will pay a debt when promised. Even if they have to hock their car to do it i remember when Colorado casinos opened up with poker rooms
I used to play in almost every illegal game in town. Mile High club. Pan Club. Fairchilds etc. No of the real low lifes showed up till yeats later
After Black Friday. That is why I do not play online poker. These guys were not stupid
They rotated among tables. Had several Ids and just ground out a good edge. No raising with shit but letting a partner know you fold the A so his king high flush was good. Or one had a pair of 6s but one of his partners mucked a 6. Time to muck that pair.
Takes till the 12th of never to catch them. But a few good pots a night makes all the difference. As for tracking a players style you have no idea who is behind that ID tonight.
But honest gamblers are just that!
Quote: billryanWasn't the main point of The Accountant that he was THE ACCOUNTANT to the worlds biggest cartels?
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I finally saw The Accountant. The lead female character has a casino story which includes card counting that I immediately deemed NOT plausible!
Edit: According to one source, the legal gambling age in Illinois is 18, so perhaps the story IS plausible. But could one win $2,000 with $20 on a nickel machine in say the mid-2000s?
The Accountant, with Ben Affleck? I don't remember anything having to do with slots in that movie. Whatever the case, one could easily hit for/win or make 2k playing nickel denomination slots in the 90's - present time. However, I haven't much information regarding Illinois gambling at that time.Quote: smoothgrhQuote: billryanWasn't the main point of The Accountant that he was THE ACCOUNTANT to the worlds biggest cartels?
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I finally saw The Accountant. The lead female character has a casino story which includes card counting that I immediately deemed NOT plausible!
Edit: According to one source, the legal gambling age in Illinois is 18, so perhaps the story IS plausible. But could one win $2,000 with $20 on a nickel machine in say the mid-2000s?
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I'm pretty sure there's been some expose` on 2+2 forums about staking poker players and the entire mess around it. Recently Tom Dwan got into some hot water over not paying some debts owed, but to be fair to him some of the debts seems to be quasi-in-limbo with how they were exactly arranged and paid or not paid off. Many of the top 100 poker players in the world share in their buy-ins and wins with many other people for various levels of stake.Quote: WizardPoker is one of my weakest areas when it comes to gambling. That said, I would like to discuss one element of The Card Counter.
The main character travels the mid-Atlantic area, chasing poker tournaments and conventions at casinos where he believes there to be soft play. At one such tournament, he runs into an old acquaintance, Lalinda, who, it is explained, it an agent between investors and professional poker players. She explains how net winnings are split 50/50 between the player and the investors, who may or may not wish to be known. I suppose she travels around to these tournaments to verify the winnings and losings of the players in her "stable."
No particular question here, just opening it up to discussion. I have heard, many times, of investors backing professional gamblers who are high on skill and low on money. It's usually done on a play by play basis. I guess my question is whether this is so organized at the poker level that there are agents involved between the players and investors?
Photo: LA Times
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Sadly yes quite a few well known faces and names in the poker world are broke as a joke at any particular time, and basically live at the gratuity of others.
Quote: AxelWolfThe Accountant, with Ben Affleck? I don't remember anything having to do with slots in that movie. Whatever the case, one could easily hit for/win or make 2k playing nickel denomination slots in the 90's - present time. However, I haven't much information regarding Illinois gambling at that time.Quote: smoothgrhQuote: billryanWasn't the main point of The Accountant that he was THE ACCOUNTANT to the worlds biggest cartels?
link to original post
I finally saw The Accountant. The lead female character has a casino story which includes card counting that I immediately deemed NOT plausible!
Edit: According to one source, the legal gambling age in Illinois is 18, so perhaps the story IS plausible. But could one win $2,000 with $20 on a nickel machine in say the mid-2000s?
link to original post
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Yes, the 2016 movie with Ben Affleck. The casino story is about 45 seconds of dialogue by the main actress, Anna Kendrick. She says she used card counting and other AP moves to try to buy a $1800 prom dress, and lost all but $40 in her bankroll but hit a $2,000 jackpot on a nickel slot.
Quote: smoothgrhQuote: AxelWolfThe Accountant, with Ben Affleck? I don't remember anything having to do with slots in that movie. Whatever the case, one could easily hit for/win or make 2k playing nickel denomination slots in the 90's - present time. However, I haven't much information regarding Illinois gambling at that time.Quote: smoothgrhQuote: billryanWasn't the main point of The Accountant that he was THE ACCOUNTANT to the worlds biggest cartels?
link to original post
I finally saw The Accountant. The lead female character has a casino story which includes card counting that I immediately deemed NOT plausible!
Edit: According to one source, the legal gambling age in Illinois is 18, so perhaps the story IS plausible. But could one win $2,000 with $20 on a nickel machine in say the mid-2000s?
link to original post
link to original post
Yes, the 2016 movie with Ben Affleck. The casino story is about 45 seconds of dialogue by the main actress, Anna Kendrick. She says she used card counting and other AP moves to try to buy a $1800 prom dress, and lost all but $40 in her bankroll but hit a $2,000 jackpot on a nickel slot.
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Well a nickel slot doesn't mean spinning for a nickel.
Most penny slots max spin is $5. So same game on a nickel machine would be $25 max.
Winning $2K on a $25 spin even twenty years ago waa well within plausibility
Just seemed like a lot of exposition that didn't ring true during the film.
