lilredrooster
lilredrooster
Joined: May 8, 2015
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August 5th, 2021 at 2:17:06 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Thanks. I'm glad you know what I'm thinking. I'm also thinking about enrolling in a dealer's school here in Vegas. I thought it would be a fun way to spend my time as a retiree.

I want you to be up to date on my thoughts.

I'm also looking for recommendations. I see some deals for $499 for three games.




so, if you become a dealer - you want to know more about card counting - why ? - to be able to identify APs?
I doubt you're going to tell them that their count is off

so is it to win brownie points by informing the PB?

I'm sorry I took the time to answer your question as best as I could



.
"𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳"______Edgar Allan Poe
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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August 5th, 2021 at 2:35:01 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

so, if you become a dealer - you want to know more about card counting - why ? - to be able to identify APs?
I doubt you're going to tell them that their count is off

so is it to win brownie points by informing the PB?

I'm sorry I took the time to answer your question as best as I could



.



Is it really difficult to accept that I'm interested in learning for learning's sake?

I'm 69 years old. For many decades I had a career built on asking questions. I continue to ask questions.

Will knowing about card counting help me in dealers school? I dont know. But when I put my mind to doing something I go all in.

By the way, I need to choose three courses. Craps will be fairly easy for me but I admit I'll need to learn payoffs and procedures for the darkside.

Blackjack is a standard course, so I must take it.

Roulette is the third.

Poker would be a good choice for me because I know all about creating side pots. There were many times at Commerce or The Bike or Hollywood Park when we'd get a rookie dealer in a tournament who just took too long creating side pots and in a tournament you want to play as many hands as possible before rebuys were over so we players arranged the side pots to keep the games going. There is an upcharge for poker and I'll pay it.

Anyway... as a retiree it's a good way to spend my time. I actually thought about it before the Covid lockdowns.

And the $499 advertised tuition is less than one buyin at craps.

There are several schools nearby. The local college also has courses.

It also might make for an article. I still do freelancing as well as some TV Infomercials from time to time. They make nice supplements to my pension (SAG-AFTRA since 1972) and Social Security.

And would I actually work as a dealer? No. Rarely have I met a dealer who loved their work.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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August 5th, 2021 at 2:39:28 AM permalink
Duplicate
BoSox
BoSox
Joined: Mar 9, 2021
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August 5th, 2021 at 7:53:41 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson



Is it really difficult to accept that I'm interested in learning for learning's sake?

I'm 69 years old. For many decades I had a career built on asking questions. I continue to ask questions.

Will knowing about card counting help me in dealers school? I dont know. But when I put my mind to doing something I go all in.



All of this does not make any sense, starting off with you are asking all the wrong questions. You becoming actually knowledgeable about card counting would I believe put you in the top echelon of dealers but would not help you in dealer school, as they are two completely separate topics.

Quote: AlanMendelson



And would I actually work as a dealer? No. Rarely have I met a dealer who loved their work.



If you are just interested in learning just for hobby sake for spending time I recommend that you choose the dealer school and forget all about card counting altogether. Why? Since as you say that when you put your mind to something that you go all in, the dealer school knowledge will never ever hurt you period especially since you do not intend to actually become a dealer. Regarding the other topic card counting, the old saying a small amount of knowledge about a topic can make people falsely believe that they are experts on the topic. Possibly giving you some wrong ideas. Besides you are not really interested in learning card counting because asking a few stray questions about a subject on a gaming board is not as you say going all in.
Last edited by: BoSox on Aug 5, 2021
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 5th, 2021 at 9:16:21 AM permalink
At your age, I'd suggest you concentrate on games where you deal seated. Your late 60s is not a good time to start a new career that will have you standing in one place for eight hours.
neverquitwhenup
neverquitwhenup
Joined: Jul 27, 2015
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August 15th, 2021 at 7:14:46 AM permalink
"Don't expect to do it for a profit"..hahahhaha that is funny where is the joke forum..
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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August 15th, 2021 at 7:40:52 AM permalink
Quote: neverquitwhenup

"Don't expect to do it for a profit"..hahahhaha that is funny where is the joke forum..

if you knew the OP you might know why I said that 🙂
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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August 15th, 2021 at 8:23:05 AM permalink
I could never shuffle cards so I would be happy with a shufflemaster around. Do they have those in Dealer's Schools? It could be fun to go to Dealer's School to try out if the $500 tuition doesn't mean more than $25 to the people who ask you if you want fries with that. I would not expect card counting would be part of the course material. I could be wrong. They could teach you all kinds of ways to be dumb and rat players out.
The math could be agonizing, and the way they want you to move chips around could be counter to everything you know about moving chips around as a player. At roulette, you've got times tables to memorize, 35 times X = 35X. People be betting 1 to 25 chips straight-up. And dealers still have to tell players to get away from the table if they use their phone.

I was just watching this video from a dealer school last hour.
6&8 UNIT PRESS ($5 & $15 Limit Table) - Short - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6bDVyV2JHg
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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August 16th, 2021 at 9:53:42 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

If I wanted to learn card counting, how accurate should my count be to have an impact on my performance?

Can I miss a few hands and still be confident or does a missed hand (several players in that hand) damage my count?

Does an approximate count have value?

Thanks.



This is the second thread started by Alan during my hiatus, that is about my experiences as again it is in reference to a discussion only the day before Alan started this thread, about tracking a second table, which I sometimes do when conditions are just right. THAT is where the “missed cards” discussion came from. I have also had this discussion before with Alan and know he is skeptical of the technique, so I am not surprised he brought this topic up again.

To fully explain, I have to get into a bit about how I track a second table. For a player that plays very short sessions as I do with specific exit triggers that guarantee a short session, one way or another, as soon as you reach one of those exit triggers and exit, you are off looking for the next game and opportunity. So the natural progression is to start looking for that opportunity even before you exit the first one.

So if conditions are right and that usually has to do with where I am seated at my table and the players at the second table seated or not seated so as to provide a line of vision, then I am able to track a second table. That is not as complicated as it sounds. Unlike the primary count at my primary table which should be as accurate as possible, the count at a second table need not be perfect. You can miss a few cards here and there. Those cards just get added to the other unseen cards, essentially resulting in reduced penetration (cards actually seen). Standford Wong did fairly extensive work on this.

So like I said, I can miss a few cards and my count at that second table need not be perfect, just good enough to know that it is a better opportunity than the table I am currently playing. Here is an example: My primary table the count is hovering around zero or slightly negative. Not negative enough for my exit trigger, but those rounds are being played at a negative expectation. So the game at the second table starts, and after a few rounds, I have a running count of +13 which equates to a TC of +3. This is an advantage of 1 to 1.5 %, much more favorable than the game I am currently playing at negative expectation.

So what if my count at that second table is off slightly because of a couple missed cards and the count is +11 instead of +13. Still much more favorable than the game I am playing. Plus, it is almost as likely that the count is +15 than +13, even more favorable due to those missed cards. So do you see, count at that second table need not be perfect, just good enough to know it is a better, more favorable situation than the game you are currently playing.

One more thing I want to touch on. This technique is neither as complicated as it seems, nor as unusual. When I started doing it, I thought yeah, aren’t I so clever? But after discussion with other players, I came to learn that they were a number of experienced, pretty well known card counters that employed this technique, when conditions were right, including Don Schlesinger, Munchkin and a well know longtime member of this forum (occasionally) who prefers I not mention him by name/handle. So it isn’t as complicated, nor as rare as people tend to think. But it is a huge advantage. You are seeing roughly twice the good counts within the same number of rounds played. BIG advantage.

I have explained all this to Alan before so I am sure this explanation won’t stop his skepticism and that is fine. Happy days Alan. And good luck with learning card counting or dealer school.
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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August 16th, 2021 at 10:00:03 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

This is the second thread started by Alan during my hiatus, that is about my experiences as again it is in reference to a discussion only the day before Alan started this thread, about tracking a second table, which I sometimes do when conditions are just right.



KewlJ,
I cannot prove it, but I concur that there is linkage between what Alan posted in those threads and what you had posted of your experience.
You've got it off your chest now. You've exercised the privilege* that is free speech on this forum.
Now, as I recently said in another thread, "Let's keep it far, far more than civil, gentlemanly, and so far within the rules that there is no doubt.

Goes for everyone."

*Yup. "Privilege"
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.

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