Blackjack tables, phone and basic strategy chart
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Quote: jjjooogggYou cant have phone at table. Even a friend next to a player. Rarely, they let people break the rule. Dont take it in a bad way. Its a common rule. Idk y.
if you saw the cheating technology people use today that involve a custom phone with a camera in the side that can specifically read each card and tell you each persons hand you would understand
but thats only half of the equation - the other half is getting the marked decks into play if you are at a regulated casino
with the type of stuff i know about i would never trust a home game of anything and putting up with what i think is a fairly rigged shuffler is alot better to me
Quote: jjjooogggYou cant have phone at table. Even a friend next to a player. Rarely, they let people break the rule. Dont take it in a bad way. Its a common rule. Idk y.
Agreed. A printed basic strategy card should not be a problem (provided you don't move it around in a way that makes it looks like you're using the card to track the count). However, they can't be sure what you are doing with the phone.
Using your phone constitutes using a device while gambling, which is illegal, and the casino can have you arrested for it on suspicion of cheating. There is literally a law (in every casino state I believe - consult your local lawyer) that legally declares using a device while gambling is illegal.
Quote: heatmapif you saw the cheating technology people use today that involve a custom phone with a camera in the side that can specifically read each card and tell you each persons hand you would understand
but thats only half of the equation - the other half is getting the marked decks into play if you are at a regulated casino
with the type of stuff i know about i would never trust a home game of anything and putting up with what i think is a fairly rigged shuffler is alot better to me
Could the "other half of the equation" IS TO PROTECT CASINO'S OWN CHEATINGS from being recorded too?
Quote: MoraineCould the "other half of the equation" IS TO PROTECT CASINO'S OWN CHEATINGS from being recorded too?
the issue with your question is that - you as a person have a self defined definition of what cheating is - and the jurisdiction that the machines reside in are the main deciding factor if a "casino" is cheating
the short answer to your quesiton is no. they are not legally cheating. they are operating as they are legally allowed to.
the reason is that the state normally has the checks and balances which will eventually check and allow the slot or shuffling machines or whatever it is your asking about.
the algorithm that powers whatever your talking about has been checked. how ever the manufacturer decides to randomize it is up to them. they submit the source code and if it contains what is considered to be illegal procedures - i assume it is rejected. the one main thing these people cant do is purposely pick a losing number AFTER a winning number is chosen for you - and also they are NOT ALLOWED to make RNG decisions based on the INTERNAL HOLD PERCENTAGE. I think anything is game after those two things are checked off the list.
the problem that i see is that people want to know the algorithm or see it so as to check it out for themselves.
but the problem with that is if you know the manufacturers algorithm you can predict the numbers that are about to come out due to the nature of pseudo random RNGs. so there needs to be SOME level of secrecy in order to maintain the FAIR nature of the RNG.
Quote: heatmapthe issue with your question is that - you as a person have a self defined definition of what cheating is - and the jurisdiction that the machines reside in are the main deciding factor if a "casino" is cheating
the short answer to your quesiton is no. they are not legally cheating. they are operating as they are legally allowed to.
but the problem with that is if you know the manufacturers algorithm you can predict the numbers that are about to come out due to the nature of pseudo random RNGs. so there needs to be SOME level of secrecy in order to maintain the FAIR nature of the RNG.
Smart phones or cameras won't record "Algorithm" or "Percentage", BUT THEY CAN RECORD SLEIGH OF HAND, "DEALING SECOND", etc.
Quote: MoraineSmart phones or cameras won't record "Algorithm" or "Percentage", BUT THEY CAN RECORD SLEIGH OF HAND, "DEALING SECOND", etc.
ah you mean the dealer is cheating... i would put that on the last priority of what i would be worried about
ive had dealer go crazy and signal to the table when he actually had blackjack and when he didnt - needless to say i didnt listen to him and didnt take insurance when he said he had it
dealers would only be colluding with players - and most likely in a higher limit room if they were dumb - or paid - enough to do so
we seem to have two different definitions of cheating
i mean go to someones house and play these same games and you should expect a person dealing to be a card mechanic in some way i would guess, but go to a casino and you are more likely to get a fair game with a shuffler than a real person - this is the conundrum we face
Quote: heatmapah you mean the dealer is cheating... i would put that on the last priority of what i would be worried about
ive had dealer go crazy and signal to the table when he actually had blackjack and when he didnt - needless to say i didnt listen to him and didnt take insurance when he said he had it
dealers would only be colluding with players - and most likely in a higher limit room if they were dumb - or paid - enough to do so
we seem to have two different definitions of cheating
i mean go to someones house and play these same games and you should expect a person dealing to be a card mechanic in some way i would guess, but go to a casino and you are more likely to get a fair game with a shuffler than a real person - this is the conundrum we face
The dictionary definition of cheating should remain the same. The difference is that I look from players angle, and you may look from casinos' angle.
Quote: MoraineThe dictionary definition of cheating should remain the same.
not sure where you decided to make that rule up as a legal term for the world but i assure you 50% of people disagree
i apologize for being harsh but legal vs dictionary is quite clear
Quote: heatmapnot sure where you decided to make that rule up as a legal term for the world but i assure you 50% of people disagree
i apologize for being harsh but legal vs dictionary is quite clear
What "legal term" are we talking about here? Regarding "cheating" or what?
"i assure you 50% of people disagree." So, the other 50% would agree?
Quote: MoraineWhat "legal term" are we talking about here? Regarding "cheating" or what?
"i assure you 50% of people disagree." So, the other 50% would agree?
Whatever jurisdiction you are claiming is cheating normally has their own legal definition of cheating. So if your talking about Nevada you must go look up their laws of what cheating is and then you must ask yourself if what they claim is cheating is what you think they are doing. Pretty simple.
Is a dealer as a card mechanic actually cheating? If it were it may be legally defined. It may be in the cheating section of a law or it may be defined elsewhere, it may not be define at all.
And what I’m claiming is that most laws that we think are laws , are actually not laws at all but moral or implied by the person claiming something to be illegal in general. When in reality it is not.
Find me the laws you are claiming that are being broken and then tell me he date and time you saw the dealer cheating and you may have a case if you think it’s on camera which it most likely was.
The dealer is colluding with someone but that is not the casino cheating unless the order was given from the ceo I suppose
Quote: heatmapWhatever jurisdiction you are claiming is cheating normally has their own legal definition of cheating. So if your talking about Nevada you must go look up their laws of what cheating is and then you must ask yourself if what they claim is cheating is what you think they are doing. Pretty simple.
Find me the laws you are claiming that are being broken and then tell me he date and time you saw the dealer cheating and you may have a case if you think it’s on camera which it most likely was.
I'm only a player suspecting "Dealing Second" and would like to record that "Dealing Second" with my smart phone. But since casino will never allow me or anyone else to use smart phones to take pictures near gaming tables. I can never prove "Second Dealing" EVEN IF THE LAW says "SECOND DEALING" is illegal.
So the law of the state or the rule of the casino regarding camera or phone use is to BENEFIT THE CASINO, not players. Any doubt there?
Quote: MoraineI'm only a player suspecting "Dealing Second" and would like to record that "Dealing Second" with my smart phone. But since casino will never allow me or anyone else to use smart phones to take pictures near gaming tables. I can never prove "Second Dealing" EVEN IF THE LAW says "SECOND DEALING" is illegal.
casinos are always recording their own dealers - take a note of time and date - make sure you keep documentation of the process you took to make the claim and who you submitted the claim to.
Quote: Moraine
So the law of the state or the rule of the casino regarding camera or phone use is to BENEFIT THE CASINO, not players. Any doubt there?
if you review my posting history you will have no doubt that i know and can prove to you that there is no such thing as a "fair" relationship between the players and the casino. The STATE or JURISDICTION knew damn well the laws they made for the casinos and that the player will never be fair so get that out of your head. the casino is in the jurisdiction because they are being protected by that jurisdiction.
all that being said the laws that need to be in place to protect the players are usually there. but by no means are they fair for the player when it compares to the things that casinos can do.
you as a player cant usually record anything - yet the casinos can record every angle of you.
Quote: heatmapcasinos are always recording their own dealers - take a note of time and date - make sure you keep documentation of the process you took to make the claim and who you submitted the claim to.
if you review my posting history you will have no doubt that i know and can prove to you that there is no such thing as a "fair" relationship between the players and the casino. The STATE or JURISDICTION knew damn well the laws they made for the casinos and that the player will never be fair so get that out of your head. the casino is in the jurisdiction because they are being protected by that jurisdiction.
all that being said the laws that need to be in place to protect the players are usually there. but by no means are they fair for the player when it compares to the things that casinos can do.
you as a player cant usually record anything - yet the casinos can record every angle of you.
Fair Enough. Question: How it Became Law?
ONE OBSERVATION:
Unlike the hard working DEALERS, WAITERS AND WAITRESSES, who ALWAYS accept moneys ON THE TABLES, the Honorable/Dishonorable Legislators OCCASIONALLY accept moneys UNDER THE TABLES.
Quote: MoraineFair Enough. Question: How it Became the Law?
ONE OBSERVATION:
Unlike the hard working DEALERS, WAITERS AND WAITRESSES, who ALWAYS accept moneys ON THE TABLES, the Honorable/Dishonorable Legislators OCCASIONALLY accept moneys UNDER THE TABLES.
If you have money you have lawyers and power to suggest parts of the laws
Quote: heatmapIf you have money you have lawyers and power to suggest parts of the laws
Not to "Suggest Parts of the Law", But "to BUY parts of the law."
Quote: gordonm888There is a difference between being "in violation" or "Non-compliant" with a law or regulatory rule, and "Cheating." Cheating involves an intention to do something in violation of the laws/rules in order to realize benefits.
Question #1: Is "Second Dealing" an "In Violation" or "Non-Complaint"?
Question # 2: Is "Second Dealing" an "Intentional violation of the Law/Rule in order to realize benefit"?
Or, still DOES NOT MATTER, since NO VIDEO RECORDING TO PROVE IT. It seems the CASINOS AND LAW MAKERS will win, win, win all the time.
Only a foolish player will believe that the law/rule prohibiting phones and cameras IS NOT TO GIVE THE MAXIMUM FREEDOM TO cheat when it so chooses.
If a casino is going to try to cheat they’ll do it another way either by trying to find a reason to stiff you or something like incomplete deck, preferential shuffling etc. Don’t care if gaming says pref shuffling is legal I will call it cheating.
Quote: mcallister3200The problem with tagging seconds dealing on a casino is that’s almost always a dealer alone decision either they just hate players or they’re trying to make for dumping to a partner civilian.
If a casino is going to try to cheat they’ll do it another way either by trying to find a reason to stiff you or something like incomplete deck, preferential shuffling etc. Don’t care if gaming says pref shuffling is legal I will call it cheating.
But Preferential Shuffling is not as good as "Dealing Second" for the house though.
By having a TRUSTED DELAER to always holding a High Card in Sigle-Deck Blackjack, and to "Dealing Second" only,
the house can increase its edge by 100% or more.
And I think it is still not too difficult to find such a "TRUSTED, SKILLFUL DEALER" if the reward is big enough.
Remember the "GOOD OLD DAY" when it was almost the rule, not the exception, in casinos.
Quote: MoraineBut Preferential Shuffling is not as good as "Dealing Second" for the house though.
By having a TRUSTED DELAER to always holding a High Card in Sigle-Deck Blackjack, and to "Dealing Second" only,
the house can increase its edge by 100% or more.
And I think it is still not too difficult to find such a "TRUSTED, SKILLFUL DEALER" if the reward is big enough.
Remember the "GOOD OLD DAY" when it was almost the rule, not the exception, in casinos.
to be honest i think your screwed if none of these answers helped you
Quote: MoraineI'm only a player suspecting "Dealing Second" and would like to record that "Dealing Second" with my smart phone.
If the game is rigged, maybe don't play.
