House edge

What is the house edge when a player uses late surrender incorrectly?

6 deck shoe game/re-split aces one card only/ stand on soft 17 and late surrender.

Quote: Harrisw01

What is the house edge when a player uses late surrender incorrectly?

6 deck shoe game/re-split aces one card only/ stand on soft 17 and late surrender.

To ask such a stupid question, you HAVE to work for a casino!
I will answer with a question...

What's the possible costs for an insurance company if you drive your car "incorrectly" ?

If you surrender every hand the house edge is approximately 50%.

I expect players will surrender with a 16 against a 9, 10, Ace and a 15 against a 10. However there's other strategies for other headspaces.
If I'm getting sick of the dealer having a BJ when I have a BJ, I'll take insurance too just to win the hand.

Quote: ChumpChange

If I'm getting sick of the dealer having a BJ when I have a BJ, I'll take insurance too just to win the hand.

Obviously a bad strategy unless you are counting and the count is positive. Doesn't insuring a BJ cost about 7%?

Quote: ChumpChange

I expect players will surrender with a 16 against a 9, 10, Ace and a 15 against a 10. However there's other strategies for other headspaces.
If I'm getting sick of the dealer having a BJ when I have a BJ, I'll take insurance too just to win the hand.

What exactly does "incorrectly" mean? If the casino allows it - many don't - you can surrender any two card hand if the dealer does not have blackjack. Surrendering the hands ChumpChange lists above is correct using basic strategy, and in a H17 game, BS also says you should surrender a hard 17 against a dealer ace, although that's a move sure to garner more than a bit of comment. Any other surrender move is technically incorrect, but it's more than incorrect to surrender, lets say, an eleven against a dealer six. That's called Unconditional Surrender. But in that case you would get to keep your sword, if you have one.

Quote: DRich

Obviously a bad strategy unless you are counting and the count is positive. Doesn't insuring a BJ cost about 7%?

I'm trying to run a 7 in a row progression, so advancing on the progression takes a little more importance to me.

sometimes i surrender on 17

I like tacos

Quote: sabre

I like tacos

ive been trying to get tacos on the menu for more than once every two months thats how much i love tacos. on a side note taco bell is not tacos nor do they sell bells

Quote: Harrisw01

What is the house edge when a player uses late surrender incorrectly?

6 deck shoe game/re-split aces one card only/ stand on soft 17 and late surrender.

A player uses late surrender incorrectly = player surrender every single hand ?

Then house edge = -50% !

The best surrender play I ever saw was a new dealer paying players half of their bet but not taking their original bet. It only lasted about 2 hours.People got too greedy and were surrendering way to many hands.

Quote: Hunterhill

The best surrender play I ever saw was a new dealer paying players half of their bet but not taking their original bet. It only lasted about 2 hours.People got too greedy and were surrendering way to many hands.

I saw a lady at Spanish 21 dealing that way, too. I knew the players were all new to the game when one of them complained to the man who was the relief dealer that he was not doing it right.

Quote: ChumpChange

I'm trying to run a 7 in a row progression, so advancing on the progression takes a little more importance to me.

ChumpChange,

This implies that a surrender does not break the win streak. If so, then rather than the usual "EV-maximizing" Basic Strategy, you could try a "Lose-minimizing" B.S.

Naturally, the proper B.S. depends on a number of factors:

1. How much is the progression worth compared to your BJ wager?
2. How close are you to reaching the 7 in a row? You would naturally be more aggressive if you are at 6 than at 1.
3. How are split hands counted in the streak?
4. What are the house rules?
5. Are you facing a time limit?
6. If the dealer shows an Ace, you take insurance, and the dealer has a BJ, does that count as a non-loss?

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Surrender is a loss and a reset of the progression.
Taking insurance with a BJ against an Ace is a win, but not a 3:2 win, but rather a 1:1 win.
Winning splits and double downs count as one win in the progression unless it covers two equal bets in the progression, then it counts for 2 bets. A regular BJ counts as one win in the progression, but the next bet may be 50% higher anyway.
Splitting and winning one and losing the other is a push.
Splitting and winning a double down on one and losing a single bet on the other is a win and advances the progression.
I have to win the first two hands to be even with flat betting wins on two hands, so unless I'm gonna run into a much longer win streak, I'll be losing kinda fast.

I'm not expecting any time limit. I could play for 2 hours, take a half hour break, and come back where I left off until I hit one of my win goals or lose my original buy-in. I've gotta figure seats at a casino are nowhere near as comfortable as what I'm used to at home and I'll need to take breaks. A one buy-in session could last anywhere from 7 to 700 hands, depends on my luck.

Not really sweating house rules unless it says 6:5 BJ, then I'll avoid that table.
Now I could limit double downs at higher bets especially if they're not coming through for me at the time. I get to 5 times my base bet and I may just avoid doubling down, but it's not quite a rule for me yet. Cards have a funny way of making me bet on 4 splits with 3 double downs with too much money out and my fingers are crossed the dealer busts.