Change in Playing Conditions Pre-Covid v Post Covid Reopening?

I posted this in another forum but didn't get too many replies. Contemplating a trip back out there and wondered.....

BUT I have noticed a change in conditions...............not just the Covid reasons: Like less players at the tables (3 for BJ); some procedures changed (face up v hand held cards); plexiglass shields; chip washing; table disinfectants and the like but as to PLAYING conditions.

I wondered (since everyone seems to be having a bit of cabin fever on board and not many BJ discussions lately) IF you have played, what changes YOU have noticed from Pre-Covid v. Post Covid (Open v after re-opening).

For example some of ones I have noticed both locally and in Vegas are:



Casinos reducing number of tables; not just spots........removing tables.
Some here will not reopen table games for an indefinite period, which just confirms how much more they make from slots.
Using so called social distancing to keep onlookers "per se" away from tables (making back counting difficult).
Increased minimums.....(to make up for fewer players? or?)
Another got rid of LS...........and they have ALWAYS had it. (worsening playing rules?)
But another one extended their times for "no ante" play. (much better playing rule)
But on the other hand, at moment, offers from hosts/casinos have increased and at moment........for next month or so...........seem to be a bit more generous. That's in Vegas........our local comps really, really suck in my opinion.



You guys who have ventured out and played maybe you have noticed some differences. I know conditions never stay static. But it does seem like things are changing in a weird sort of way. Thoughts?

Good. I am glad you brought this discussion here, so I can participate. :-)

I only played blackjack for about a week and a half after the re-opening, because I quickly became uncomfortable with the safety conditions, specifically the lack of mask wearing at the time (which has changed). But I still visit casinos several times a week to collect my free play and I take a look and am keeping an eye on blackjack conditions.

One thing that surprised me, is that during the shutdown, there were numerous stories on the local news about all the plexiglass dividers that would be at tables. I see very little of that. El Cortez has one blackjack table with dividers. Ellis Island has tables with dividers. I don't remember seeing them anywhere else, although, I haven't visited strip casinos at all. So I am a little surprised at that.

Minor change but nobody I have seen is allowing players to cut cards. A couple places the dealer asks the player where he would like the cut to be, bottom, middle, top. That seems kind of silly.

So during the shutdown, my major concern would be a move away from traditional felt blackjack tables towards electronic blackjack like those "angel" models that have 5 seats, or the stadium type games that combine a TITO system with a single live dealer for many, many individual terminals.

With the exception of Station properties, I haven't seen that. I did receive an email about 2 weeks ago from Station Casinos stating that they were introducing a stadium section of games, not just blackjack, but roulette, and others, at all 6 of there currently open casinos. To date I have only seen the set up at 2 of the casinos, sunset and GVR and neither was open and operating at the times of my visit.

IF this catches on, it could mean the end of MOST traditional felt blackjack played with chips, in my opinion. I think you would still see traditional tables with chips at higher limits, maybe $50 and $100 minimums and up. Very small casinos might also have a blackjack table or two, but the quantity of traditional blackjack tables that someone like me takes advantage of would be greatly reduced. That is my fear.

I haven't noticed any rule changes for the worse. But again, my post shutdown play has been limited. A couple places like Silver Seven have reduced table game hours to evenings.

Comps have sucked for a while now, especially for blackjack.

Hopefully some others will share their experiences and thoughts.

Quote: kewlj

IF this catches on, it could mean the end of MOST traditional felt blackjack played with chips, in my opinion. I think you would still see traditional tables with chips at higher limits, maybe $50 and $100 minimums and up. Very small casinos might also have a blackjack table or two, but the quantity of traditional blackjack tables that someone like me takes advantage of would be greatly reduced. That is my fear.

I don't think it will catches on more than did the CSMs. Playing a legitimate card game with cards and chips will always give that little extra something that people are looking for when they go to a casino. If one day all the BJ tables would became Stadium BJ, someone somewhere would open a casino advertising "real card games using real cards and real chips" ;-) I may be wrong but this is how I see it.

Quote: kewlj

One thing that surprised me, is that during the shutdown, there were numerous stories on the local news about all the plexiglass dividers that would be at tables. I see very little of that. El Cortez has one blackjack table with dividers. Ellis Island has tables with dividers. I don't remember seeing them anywhere else, although, I haven't visited strip casinos at all. So I am a little surprised at that.

IF this catches on, it could mean the end of MOST traditional felt blackjack played with chips, in my opinion. I think you would still see traditional tables with chips at higher limits, maybe $50 and $100 minimums and up. Very small casinos might also have a blackjack table or two, but the quantity of traditional blackjack tables that someone like me takes advantage of would be greatly reduced. That is my fear.

Comps have sucked for a while now, especially for blackjack.

Hopefully some others will share their experiences and thoughts.

Downtown Vegas and the strip tables were as packed as ever. Casinos themselves not so much. Also the plexiglass seemed to vary per strip casinos. Some had them some didn't. I noticed way more people on table games then on slots during primetime. Also only saw a couple places with stadium games on the strip but I wasn't exactly looking. I didn't check table conditions.

Quote: Viper21

Downtown Vegas and the strip tables were as packed as ever. Casinos themselves not so much. Also the plexiglass seemed to vary per strip casinos. Some had them some didn't. I noticed way more people on table games then on slots during primetime. Also only saw a couple places with stadium games on the strip but I wasn't exactly looking. I didn't check table conditions.

There was already some stadium blackjack venues on the strip, like Venetian. I just haven't checked to see if there are any new ones. Maybe early some morning I will take a look at some strip casinos.

Now speaking of Venetian, They released some gaming data in the last couple days that I saw somewhere. It was like a 4 week comparison from June and July to the same period last year. The numbers seemed kind of weird to me. I am just going off the top of my head, so may not be exact, but I think this is pretty close.

Room occupancy was like 78% from last year.

Slots and video poker were 90 some %

Table games were like 45%.

So the table games made sense to me, since they are limiting number of players per table you would expect that to be 50% off.

The room occupancy surprised me for 2 reasons, one, I thought casinos were blocking off every other room, or something for the time being. 78% didn't indicate that. Second, the strip business comes from 2 sources. The main one being people flying in, which just has not returned anywhere near normal numbers. Of course the second strip source is the weekenders from California and other nearby states, but mostly California. That may be much closer to normal, I don't know.

And the 90% slots and video poker, that makes least sense of all. That means fewer people are playing more slots, even with every other machine closed off. Must mean fewer people are spending more money. ??

I don't know maybe the whole set of numbers was an anomaly based on a small sample size (4 weeks I believe).

KJ: Not all places prohibited player cutting. I did see that at El Cortez but Paris and Flamingo (as of first of July visit) were allowing players to cut double deck/other games. So it probably is a YMMV situation. It's still humorous to see them physically wash chips. I never noticed the stadium games actually having many players at the place I saw. But that may just be timing of my visit.

Resurrecting this thread to try to get more info. I’m specifically interested in how odds may or may not have changed post pandemic; specially for video poker. I know this is obviously a different scenario but in some ways is analogous (primarily a massive drop in tourism leading to a higher competition to draw patrons into the casino) to the recession in what was it 2007ish. Ive heard many anectodal reports both from players as well as people in the industry that during that recession time casinos (including strip casinos) changed their VP odds to make them more player favorable in an effort to draw in more of the selective small crowd. Scouring around the intrawebz during the shut down it seemed like most people thought the same would be the case following the post-Covid closure re-opening. Ive been back to Vegas 3 times since the reopening and will be back again in January, all three times I’ve stayed at Wynn (I know, I know, shitty gambling odds on the strip but I go out there with my finance and the reality is nice resorts on the strip is just where we’re going to stay as that is her preference). So anyways I have noticed that the VP odds at the Wynn/Encore have not changed at all and remain as shitty as ever. Now I will say their comps have seemed quite generous particularly for a 5 star strip resort, so that may be what they are doing as opposed to posting more favorable VP odds.

Anyways, my question is what have people noticed Strip wide; any changes in gaming odds? Improved comp rates? no changes at all?

Quote: handsNftRmangos

Resurrecting this thread to try to get more info. I’m specifically interested in how odds may or may not have changed post pandemic; specially for video poker. I know this is obviously a different scenario but in some ways is analogous (primarily a massive drop in tourism leading to a higher competition to draw patrons into the casino) to the recession in what was it 2007ish. Ive heard many anectodal reports both from players as well as people in the industry that during that recession time casinos (including strip casinos) changed their VP odds to make them more player favorable in an effort to draw in more of the selective small crowd. Scouring around the intrawebz during the shut down it seemed like most people thought the same would be the case following the post-Covid closure re-opening. Ive been back to Vegas 3 times since the reopening and will be back again in January, all three times I’ve stayed at Wynn (I know, I know, shitty gambling odds on the strip but I go out there with my finance and the reality is nice resorts on the strip is just where we’re going to stay as that is her preference). So anyways I have noticed that the VP odds at the Wynn/Encore have not changed at all and remain as shitty as ever. Now I will say their comps have seemed quite generous particularly for a 5 star strip resort, so that may be what they are doing as opposed to posting more favorable VP odds.

Anyways, my question is what have people noticed Strip wide; any changes in gaming odds? Improved comp rates? no changes at all?

Video poker paytables are almost all the same. Room/food comps are easier to get now. Some casinos were giving more free play after they reopened but it seems to have subsided (at least for me and the couple guys I've talk to, very small sample size.)

I've not seen any changes to VP paytables in my neck of the woods, but it's no shock as most of them already totally sucked.

Quote: kewlj

So during the shutdown, my major concern would be a move away from traditional felt blackjack tables towards electronic blackjack like those "angel" models that have 5 seats, or the stadium type games that combine a TITO system with a single live dealer for many, many individual terminals.

With the exception of Station properties, I haven't seen that. I did receive an email about 2 weeks ago from Station Casinos stating that they were introducing a stadium section of games, not just blackjack, but roulette, and others, at all 6 of there currently open casinos. To date I have only seen the set up at 2 of the casinos, sunset and GVR and neither was open and operating at the times of my visit.
Hopefully some others will share their experiences and thoughts.

i sure wish a new place in vegas would install a dealers angels machine. the only one i know of are the places i got banned at years ago while playing. that sure wouldnt be a bad thing. at least those dont shuffle every hand unlike all the new shitty interblock and stadium bj machines i see being installed. ive never seen a stadium that doesnt use a continuous shuffle which is the same thing almost as shuffleing every hand

Dealer's Angels shuffle after every hand.

The change definately includes less pen. The table minimums jumped up for the most part. Fewer players allowed at the table and less tables to play knocks the heck out of a straight up game.

Any warriors want to post as to recent changes? I was back in Feb/Super Bowl time and the rules had changed for the worse at least as to DD BJ, which is probably my go to game normally. All the Caesar's properties, except one, had changed their pay to 6-5 v 3-2 on a DOUBLE DECK!! High limit rooms were still 3-2 but I just don't normally play $100 minimum tables even if my average bet is higher. I want to be able to spread a little.

Has it changed since then? I know off strip is better. And I know I should NOT be playing the Strip if I want the best rules but c'mon................6-5 on Double Deck? Can they get ANY greedier especially with less players and crowds?

Yes, room comps ok; food prices have escalated tremendously...........at least ON Strip. Any info would be appreciated. Heading back this weekend.

Are players still required to wear stupid masks?

They did in February; understand it's still a requirement but not enforced strongly apparently.

My State is leaving up to individual businesses after the end of this month. (April) So the mandatory rule is expiring. Missouri quit their mask mandate last week.

Sisolak is a democrat. Their jurisdictions blindly "kow tow" to the religion of Fauci...........not to get political. LOL

Quote: MJGolf

Sisolak is a democrat. Their jurisdictions blindly "kow tow" to the religion of Fauci...........not to get political. LOL

I hate it when people make decisions based on science. I know in my gut what's right. That and Jesus. And baby Jesus. And my wife. And my sister. Who are the same person.

Quote: MJGolf

They did in February; understand it's still a requirement but not enforced strongly apparently.

My State is leaving up to individual businesses after the end of this month. (April) So the mandatory rule is expiring. Missouri quit their mask mandate last week.

Sisolak is a democrat. Their jurisdictions blindly "kow tow" to the religion of Fauci...........not to get political. LOL

Mask requirement is still in place and being enforced pretty strongly in most NV casinos.