technics
technics
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July 11th, 2020 at 9:15:16 AM permalink
One of my local casinos mostly has hand shuffling. It seems that there are more 3/4/5 card dealer 21s than would be expected. Iíve watched when a table is opened up, and they donít spread out the decks and mix the cards, rather they just shuffle the decks as they come out of the box. After a chute they seem to shuffle by flipping ďlargeĒ groups of cards, rather than 1-2 cards at a time. Would this be the reason behind the inordinate amount of multi card dealer 21s or am I off base?
heatmap
heatmap
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July 11th, 2020 at 10:16:20 AM permalink
Quote: technics

One of my local casinos mostly has hand shuffling.


This could be a good thing, or a bad thing depending on WHO is shuffling the cards and how well they know how to do their jobs

Quote: technics

It seems that there are more 3/4/5 card dealer 21s than would be expected. Iíve watched when a table is opened up, and they donít spread out the decks and mix the cards, rather they just shuffle the decks as they come out of the box. After a chute they seem to shuffle by flipping ďlargeĒ groups of cards, rather than 1-2 cards at a time. Would this be the reason behind the inordinate amount of multi card dealer 21s or am I off base?



Well you should first be questioning your state, or jurisdictional laws. The shuffling procedure should be defined, but if you find nothing about shuffling then what they are doing is most likely legal although I AM NOT A LAWYER.

Second, how many decks are being used here?

Hand shuffles are, from what I read, just as random if not more random then some shuffling machines. But random is not FUN for the player. I am usually the one who says its the shuffle machine, but you clearly state it is not a shuffle machine being used.

1 deck blackjack is so tight when i play against myself at home there is no winning most of the time.
technics
technics
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July 11th, 2020 at 12:39:25 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

This could be a good thing, or a bad thing depending on WHO is shuffling the cards and how well they know how to do their jobs



Well you should first be questioning your state, or jurisdictional laws. The shuffling procedure should be defined, but if you find nothing about shuffling then what they are doing is most likely legal although I AM NOT A LAWYER.

Second, how many decks are being used here?

Hand shuffles are, from what I read, just as random if not more random then some shuffling machines. But random is not FUN for the player. I am usually the one who says its the shuffle machine, but you clearly state it is not a shuffle machine being used.

1 deck blackjack is so tight when i play against myself at home there is no winning most of the time.



Hadnít thought about checking state regulations; their after chute shuffle methods would be difficult to prove I would think. Itís a six deck game. The Wizard says automatic shufflers are better, I believe. The automatic shufflers that this casino does have are continuous shufflers, but since I count cards , I canít play at those tables.
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heatmap
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July 11th, 2020 at 8:01:39 PM permalink
Quote: technics

Hadnít thought about checking state regulations; their after chute shuffle methods would be difficult to prove I would think. Itís a six deck game. The Wizard says automatic shufflers are better, I believe. The automatic shufflers that this casino does have are continuous shufflers, but since I count cards , I canít play at those tables.



So this has to do with the ASM shufflers. IMO there is a side effect that happens when it shuffle the cards but I call it a magic trick because it can go wrong most of the time. Essentially the trick is that when you add or remove a player you get a blackjack somewhere on the table.

Iíll tell you that one day, I sat down with a man playing 5k markers like he made them himself. He kept losing. I was not helping either but before I sat down I said to him, ďhey do you mind if I try something?Ē And I told him exactly what I just told you. I also told him that it probably wouldnít happen because why would it? Itís random and I canít guarantee because Iím not shuffling the deck. He agrees. So we play a hand. Personally I donít think the first hand was a blackjack when I entered but itís possible. The next hand I proceeded to add a new hand to the felt. Dealer gets blackjack. Remove a hand, dealer gets blackjack. add one, repeat. This happened six time consecutively so basically 3 hands added and removed in a row and six blackjacks for the dealer. I kept playing and kept losing after hat itís the worst day of my gambling career if I even have one lol
gordonm888
gordonm888
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July 12th, 2020 at 8:09:57 AM permalink
The odds of the dealer getting BJ on those 6 consecutive deals on which you changed the number of "hands" was roughly one in 100 million. If the shuffler was completely random.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Jul 12, 2020
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
racquet
racquet
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July 12th, 2020 at 12:26:10 PM permalink
The mathaholics here would be able to give you a more scientific answer, but my impression is that changing the number of hands, however you want to define what that is, has absolutely no impact on the likelihood of any SPECIFIC outcome. It certainly would change the RANDOM outcome since with a different sequence of cards being dealt to each player and the dealer, the results would be different, but changing the "number of hands" would not pre-determine the chances of anyone, the dealer or a player, getting a blackjack.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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July 13th, 2020 at 5:54:15 AM permalink
I would say the most likely reason for your question is confirmation bias. You see something you think may be happening, and then you make note when it does, but.... when it doesn't you just ignore it. If the dealer has 10 consecutive hands with NO 21, you don't even notice. You may not notice if he has 100 such hands. But if there are 3 consecutive drawn 21s, you are all over it.

Just a question for you.... do you know the odds of a dealer getting a drawn 21 with 3, 4, or 5 cards? Since you think it is happening more frequently than it should I am sure you know how frequently it should! (I'll bet you don't know...)
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heatmap
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July 13th, 2020 at 6:22:35 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I would say the most likely reason for your question is confirmation bias. You see something you think may be happening, and then you make note when it does, but.... when it doesn't you just ignore it. If the dealer has 10 consecutive hands with NO 21, you don't even notice. You may not notice if he has 100 such hands. But if there are 3 consecutive drawn 21s, you are all over it.

Just a question for you.... do you know the odds of a dealer getting a drawn 21 with 3, 4, or 5 cards? Since you think it is happening more frequently than it should I am sure you know how frequently it should! (I'll bet you don't know...)



funny you ask this and i wasnt going to post this but i found this report for a blackjack game

CAUTION PDF!!!

http://www.itechlabs.com.au/certificates/PartyGaming/PartyGaming_Blackjack_card_analysis_report.PDF
DogHand
DogHand
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July 13th, 2020 at 6:53:06 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

<snip>Just a question for you.... do you know the odds of a dealer getting a drawn 21 with 3, 4, or 5 cards? Since you think it is happening more frequently than it should I am sure you know how frequently it should! (I'll bet you don't know...)



SOOPOO,

According to an old post by the late, great MathProf over at bj21, for a 6D S17 game, these are the percentage probabilities of the dealer drawing to a 3, 4, or 5 card 21:

3-card 21: 5.165%
4-card 21: 1.778%
5-card 21: 0.3093%

Link: https://bj21.com/boards/green-chip-forums/sub_boards/green-chip-general/topics/odds-of (scroll down to MathProf's post).

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand
technics
technics
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July 13th, 2020 at 4:00:55 PM permalink
This post was about poor hand shuffling producing higher HE than automatic shufflers.
Last edited by: technics on Jul 13, 2020

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