Blackjack Switch Rule Variations

Hi,
There is a game of switch that possibly has a small player edge, see below:

Game: 6-decks, hit soft17, dealer will peek for blackjack and all bets will lose except a player blackjack will push (see link below for further info about the standard rules for this game).

Edit, the link doesn't work, so just search "wizard of odds blackjack switch" to find the site.

For the game above I was wondering what the reduction in house edge is for the following rule variations:

1. Suited Blackjack pays 6/5
2. Switched Suited Blackjack pays 6/5
3. All Switched Player Blackjacks wins against a "Push 22" and a "dealer 21"
4.(a) When the right hand has a Blackjack you can't switch
4 (b) If you switch and turn the right hand into a Blackjack, then you can't switch again
4 (c) If the left hand is a regular blackjack, and the right hand is currently not a blackjack but can be turned into a Suited blackjack, then this is allowed, but the opposite is not (see "4 (a) and 4 (b)" above).
5. I would also like to know if these variations can be added together or if the "total is more or less than the sum of the parts", that is why I put "rule variation 3," in even though the Wizard of Odds site says it is worth about 0.4% to the player.

If possible can you also tell me the chances of getting one (or more) of the hands below per game under the above rules:
(i) Suited Blackjacks
(ii) Switched Suited Blackjacks
(iii) Non-Suited Blackjack
(iv) Switched Non-Suited Blackjack

Even though this is my first post/thread, I have been a long time reader of the "sister site"/ Wizard of Odds and can usually work out what I need from the information provided there.

All help will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

I imagine that the reason that no one has insta-responded to your question is that this is a complex game to model. Its also a relatively rare game, not in most casinos. So, mathematical spreadsheets or simulations of this game are not on most of our computers.

Quote: gordonm888

I imagine that the reason that no one has insta-responded to your question is that this is a complex game to model. Its also a relatively rare game, not in most casinos. So, mathematical spreadsheets or simulations of this game are not on most of our computers.

it apparently didnt do too well at the sands bethlehem... im assuming people were making money off of it which is also what other people ive talked to say but maybe its just not a fun game to play or something

Quote: heatmap

it apparently didnt do too well at the sands bethlehem... im assuming people were making money off of it which is also what other people ive talked to say but maybe its just not a fun game to play or something

i believe that was a different game called Switch Hands blackjack. You only had one hand and had to pay an ante in addition to your bet. If you didn’t like your hand you could then exchange it for a random new hand. I don’t believe there was a push 22. It was fun. I’m not sure why it didn’t last. I’m guessing people didn’t like the ante. You bet $10 and ante $2, get a 20. The dealer gets a 20, you lose $2. A lot of people probably didn’t like that even though it was made up for when you got bad hands.

I found a switch game too, not like the op described though. Don’t know all the rules but it plays like regular switch except that if you switch and one hand makes 21 it is counted as a bj and pays the standard even money against a dealer draw to 21 or 22. Also I don’t think the dealer peeks on a 10 up so I think a player 21 would push against an ace in the hole.

Thanks for all the replies so far, and I understand that this could take a while to do.
Also, I found out a weird rule during practice play, that lets you only split one of the two hands, see example below:
Example: I had two pairs of 9s in my hand against a 6, and the game only let me split the first pair, and I could only hit, stand or double on the 2nd pair.
Lastly, how much does it cost the player to only be able to split once compared to being able to re-split up to 4 hands ?

I have written a spreadsheet model of BJ Switch that is not 100% rigorous, but is pretty reasonable. It uses the table in the WOO Blackjack Switch Appendix 1 and evaluates and optimizes the Switch/NoSwitch decision for all the possible 4 card combinations that player can start with and for each of the dealer upcards.

Given standard BJ Switch rules, it calculates a H.E. of 0.579%, which is surprisingly (perhaps luckily) close to the rigorously correct result that Wizard calculated and reported on the WOO site.

I am starting to evaluate the rule changes you list above, but I have some questions.

4.(a) When the right hand has a Blackjack you can't switch

- So far, I have not noticed any hands in which it is mathematically correct to break-up a Blackjack by Switching, except when the result is to create a suited blackjack. Does anyone know if there are any other 4 card player hands where it is correct to Switch and breakup a BJ?

4 (b) If you switch and turn the right hand into a Blackjack, then you can't switch again

What does "switch again" mean? I thought there was only one decision point for switching.

4 (c) If the left hand is a regular blackjack, and the right hand is currently not a blackjack but can be turned into a Suited blackjack, then this is allowed, but the opposite is not (see "4 (a) and 4 (b)" above).

If the player has Ad-Tc + 6h-Td can you switch the tens to make a suited BJ in the left hand?
If player has Ad-2c + Ah-Td then a switch to make a suited BJ in the left hand is NOT allowed, correct?
If player has As-Th + Ah-Td it is NOT allowed to switch and make a suited BJ in the right hand, correct?

Another question:

Example: I had two pairs of 9s in my hand against a 6, and the game only let me split the first pair, and I could only hit, stand or double on the 2nd pair.

Doe the "split one pair only" rule come into force only when your two pairs are identical? If you hold 2-2+ 3-3 vs 6, are you limited to splitting only one of those pairs and, if so, does the house tell you which pair you are allowed to split?

Quote: Sandybestdog

i believe that was a different game called Switch Hands blackjack. You only had one hand and had to pay an ante in addition to your bet. If you didn’t like your hand you could then exchange it for a random new hand. I don’t believe there was a push 22. It was fun. I’m not sure why it didn’t last. I’m guessing people didn’t like the ante. You bet $10 and ante $2, get a 20. The dealer gets a 20, you lose $2. A lot of people probably didn’t like that even though it was made up for when you got bad hands.

okay yes i am not seeing the balckjack switch within their laws, but have found "double back jack" and that does contain a push 22 rule, and "double attach blackjack" sorry for the misinformation

Is “Switch” still a member of this forum?

Quote: gordonm888

...Does anyone know if there are any other 4 card player hands where it is correct to Switch and breakup a BJ?...

I've done it against a 7. Here are the notes I made many years ago...

(1) Keep a natural blackjack
….except
v7 With two pictures with <18 or to create >=(18,18) (except play AT 88)
v8 With two pictures with <19 or to create >=(19,18) (except play AT 88)
v9 With two pictures or AT99 (except play AT T2)

Quote: gordonm888

...I am starting to evaluate the rule changes you list above, but I have some questions.

4.(a) When the right hand has a Blackjack you can't switch

- So far, I have not noticed any hands in which it is mathematically correct to break-up a Blackjack by Switching, except when the result is to create a suited blackjack. Does anyone know if there are any other 4 card player hands where it is correct to Switch and breakup a BJ?

4 (b) If you switch and turn the right hand into a Blackjack, then you can't switch again

What does "switch again" mean? I thought there was only one decision point for switching.

4 (c) If the left hand is a regular blackjack, and the right hand is currently not a blackjack but can be turned into a Suited blackjack, then this is allowed, but the opposite is not (see "4 (a) and 4 (b)" above).

If the player has Ad-Tc + 6h-Td can you switch the tens to make a suited BJ in the left hand?
If player has Ad-2c + Ah-Td then a switch to make a suited BJ in the left hand is NOT allowed, correct?
If player has As-Th + Ah-Td it is NOT allowed to switch and make a suited BJ in the right hand, correct?

"What does "switch again" mean? I thought there was only one decision point for switching."
I don't normally play switch, but in this online version if you were playing and then realized you made a mistake by switching, you can usually switch back to the original hand, except if the right hand is/becomes a BJ. This version lets you switch as many times as you like, until you make a "normal blackjack" play, hit, stand etc

"If the player has Ad-Tc + 6h-Td can you switch the tens to make a suited BJ in the left hand?" Yes, you can switch
"If player has Ad-2c + Ah-Td then a switch to make a suited BJ in the left hand is NOT allowed, correct?" Correct, that switch is not allowed
"If player has As-Th + Ah-Td it is NOT allowed to switch and make a suited BJ in the right hand, correct?" Correct, that is also not allowed

Also, about the pairs, it is true that you can only split pairs once per game and NOT per hand.