dddkkk1
dddkkk1
Joined: Oct 11, 2019
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October 11th, 2019 at 1:37:53 AM permalink
Hi,
There is a game of switch that possibly has a small player edge, see below:

Game: 6-decks, hit soft17, dealer will peek for blackjack and all bets will lose except a player blackjack will push (see link below for further info about the standard rules for this game).

Edit, the link doesn't work, so just search "wizard of odds blackjack switch" to find the site.

For the game above I was wondering what the reduction in house edge is for the following rule variations:

1. Suited Blackjack pays 6/5
2. Switched Suited Blackjack pays 6/5
3. All Switched Player Blackjacks wins against a "Push 22" and a "dealer 21"
4.(a) When the right hand has a Blackjack you can't switch
4 (b) If you switch and turn the right hand into a Blackjack, then you can't switch again
4 (c) If the left hand is a regular blackjack, and the right hand is currently not a blackjack but can be turned into a Suited blackjack, then this is allowed, but the opposite is not (see "4 (a) and 4 (b)" above).
5. I would also like to know if these variations can be added together or if the "total is more or less than the sum of the parts", that is why I put "rule variation 3," in even though the Wizard of Odds site says it is worth about 0.4% to the player.

If possible can you also tell me the chances of getting one (or more) of the hands below per game under the above rules:
(i) Suited Blackjacks
(ii) Switched Suited Blackjacks
(iii) Non-Suited Blackjack
(iv) Switched Non-Suited Blackjack

Even though this is my first post/thread, I have been a long time reader of the "sister site"/ Wizard of Odds and can usually work out what I need from the information provided there.

All help will be greatly appreciated, thanks.
Last edited by: dddkkk1 on Oct 11, 2019
gordonm888
gordonm888
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October 12th, 2019 at 8:50:01 AM permalink
I imagine that the reason that no one has insta-responded to your question is that this is a complex game to model. Its also a relatively rare game, not in most casinos. So, mathematical spreadsheets or simulations of this game are not on most of our computers.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
heatmap
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October 12th, 2019 at 12:16:21 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I imagine that the reason that no one has insta-responded to your question is that this is a complex game to model. Its also a relatively rare game, not in most casinos. So, mathematical spreadsheets or simulations of this game are not on most of our computers.



it apparently didnt do too well at the sands bethlehem... im assuming people were making money off of it which is also what other people ive talked to say but maybe its just not a fun game to play or something
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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October 13th, 2019 at 10:54:57 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

it apparently didnt do too well at the sands bethlehem... im assuming people were making money off of it which is also what other people ive talked to say but maybe its just not a fun game to play or something

i believe that was a different game called Switch Hands blackjack. You only had one hand and had to pay an ante in addition to your bet. If you didnít like your hand you could then exchange it for a random new hand. I donít believe there was a push 22. It was fun. Iím not sure why it didnít last. Iím guessing people didnít like the ante. You bet $10 and ante $2, get a 20. The dealer gets a 20, you lose $2. A lot of people probably didnít like that even though it was made up for when you got bad hands.
Last edited by: Sandybestdog on Oct 13, 2019
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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October 13th, 2019 at 10:57:23 AM permalink
I found a switch game too, not like the op described though. Donít know all the rules but it plays like regular switch except that if you switch and one hand makes 21 it is counted as a bj and pays the standard even money against a dealer draw to 21 or 22. Also I donít think the dealer peeks on a 10 up so I think a player 21 would push against an ace in the hole.
dddkkk1
dddkkk1
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October 13th, 2019 at 4:46:47 PM permalink
Thanks for all the replies so far, and I understand that this could take a while to do.
Also, I found out a weird rule during practice play, that lets you only split one of the two hands, see example below:
Example: I had two pairs of 9s in my hand against a 6, and the game only let me split the first pair, and I could only hit, stand or double on the 2nd pair.
Lastly, how much does it cost the player to only be able to split once compared to being able to re-split up to 4 hands ?
gordonm888
gordonm888
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October 15th, 2019 at 12:30:29 PM permalink
I have written a spreadsheet model of BJ Switch that is not 100% rigorous, but is pretty reasonable. It uses the table in the WOO Blackjack Switch Appendix 1 and evaluates and optimizes the Switch/NoSwitch decision for all the possible 4 card combinations that player can start with and for each of the dealer upcards.

Given standard BJ Switch rules, it calculates a H.E. of 0.579%, which is surprisingly (perhaps luckily) close to the rigorously correct result that Wizard calculated and reported on the WOO site.

I am starting to evaluate the rule changes you list above, but I have some questions.

4.(a) When the right hand has a Blackjack you can't switch

- So far, I have not noticed any hands in which it is mathematically correct to break-up a Blackjack by Switching, except when the result is to create a suited blackjack. Does anyone know if there are any other 4 card player hands where it is correct to Switch and breakup a BJ?

4 (b) If you switch and turn the right hand into a Blackjack, then you can't switch again

What does "switch again" mean? I thought there was only one decision point for switching.

4 (c) If the left hand is a regular blackjack, and the right hand is currently not a blackjack but can be turned into a Suited blackjack, then this is allowed, but the opposite is not (see "4 (a) and 4 (b)" above).

If the player has Ad-Tc + 6h-Td can you switch the tens to make a suited BJ in the left hand?
If player has Ad-2c + Ah-Td then a switch to make a suited BJ in the left hand is NOT allowed, correct?
If player has As-Th + Ah-Td it is NOT allowed to switch and make a suited BJ in the right hand, correct?
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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October 15th, 2019 at 12:41:05 PM permalink
Another question:

Example: I had two pairs of 9s in my hand against a 6, and the game only let me split the first pair, and I could only hit, stand or double on the 2nd pair.

Doe the "split one pair only" rule come into force only when your two pairs are identical? If you hold 2-2+ 3-3 vs 6, are you limited to splitting only one of those pairs and, if so, does the house tell you which pair you are allowed to split?
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
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October 15th, 2019 at 2:19:45 PM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

i believe that was a different game called Switch Hands blackjack. You only had one hand and had to pay an ante in addition to your bet. If you didnít like your hand you could then exchange it for a random new hand. I donít believe there was a push 22. It was fun. Iím not sure why it didnít last. Iím guessing people didnít like the ante. You bet $10 and ante $2, get a 20. The dealer gets a 20, you lose $2. A lot of people probably didnít like that even though it was made up for when you got bad hands.



okay yes i am not seeing the balckjack switch within their laws, but have found "double back jack" and that does contain a push 22 rule, and "double attach blackjack" sorry for the misinformation
HotBlonde
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October 16th, 2019 at 1:23:01 PM permalink
Is ďSwitchĒ still a member of this forum?
OFFICIALLY and justifiably reclaimed my title as SuperHotBlonde!

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